Fair
48°F
High: 68°F
Low: 42°F
Currently : Partly Cloudy
4 Dec 2008
> Five-day forecast
 Search
   
 
   

Business Directory
Add your Business
Coupons
Add your Coupon
Classifieds
Add Your Classified
Subject: Supreme court has lost it's mind
Prev Next
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Page 1 of 212 > >>
AuthorMessages
jhallUser is Offline

Posts:1342


06/12/2008 10:50 AM Alert 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365851,00.html

WASHINGTON —  A divided Supreme Court ruled Thursday that foreign terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay have rights under the Constitution to challenge their detention in U.S. civilian courts.

The justices, in a 5-4 ruling, handed the Bush administration its third setback at the high court since 2004 over its treatment of prisoners being held indefinitely and without charges at the U.S. naval base in Cuba.

Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion and was joined by Justices John Paul Stevens, Stephen Breyer, David Souter and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Dissenting were Chief Justice John Roberts, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.

"Petitioners have the constitutional privilege of habeas corpus. They are not barred from seeking the writ or invoking the Suspension Clause's protections because they have been designated as enemy combatants or because of their presence at Guantanamo," Kennedy wrote.

The Suspension Clause is a constitutional guarantee that blocks Congress from suspending habeas corpus.

"The Suspension Clause has full effect at Guantanamo. The government's argument that the Clause affords petitioners no rights because the United States does not claim sovereignty over the naval station is rejected," the opinion reads.

It was not immediately clear whether this ruling, unlike the first two, would lead to prompt hearings for the detainees, some of whom have been held more than six years. Roughly 270 men remain at the island prison, classified as enemy combatants and held on suspicion of terrorism or links to Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

Five high-profile Guantanamo detainees appeared in a military tribunal last week, where one, Ramzi Binalshibh, admitted he was guilty of helping plan the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, and mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said he wanted to be put to death so he could be viewed as a martyr.

The case before the Supreme Court was brought by Lakhdar Boumediene, one of the remaining prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. He's been there since 2002.

After the court ruled in 2004, in Rasul v. Bush, that the prisoners were entitled to have access to the American court system, the government established a military tribunal process. As it stands, the prisoners can appeal adverse rulings to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Solicitor General Paul Clement argues the process provides Boumediene "along with the other enemy combatants being held at Guantanamo Bay, [the opportunity to] enjoy more procedural protections than any other captured enemy combatants in the history of warfare."

But the detainees' lawyers contend the current law fails to protect the constitutional rights the court said their clients were entitled to receive in Rasul. They want full habeas corpus rights, a constitutional protection that forces the government to justify in an open courtroom legitimate reasons an individual needs to be behind bars.

Also known as the "Great Writ," it is a universal right that was famously suspended by Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War.

Lawyers for the detainees argued the government, through the 2006 Military Commissions Act, unconstitutionally suspended the Great Writ for their clients. They sought a single remedy: a fair and impartial hearing before a neutral decision-maker to determine if there is a reasonable basis in the law and fact for detaining them.

They have never received such a hearing, although this court ruled more than three years ago that they are entitled to one.

The government contended the Rasul decision does not cover habeas rights and that earlier court rulings make clear that foreign prisoners held outside the United States have no such right. It further argued that the military tribunals passed by Congress are an adequate substitute for what habeas seeks to protect.

Although Congress expressly chose to foreclose detainees from challenging their status via habeas, it decided that aliens detained at Guantanamo Bay as enemy combatants should receive administrative hearings before a military tribunal, subject to judicial review in the District of Columbia Circuit.

That system builds additional protections on those available even to conventional prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention, and it was designed to track the requirements for due process deemed sufficient for American citizens.

Boumediene is an Algerian native who was living in Bosnia at the time of his arrest in October 2001. He and five others are accused of plotting to blow up the American embassy in Sarajevo. They were relocated in January 2002 to Guantanamo Bay, where Boumediene remains incarcerated. He denies any involvement in plots against the United States.

This case had provided one surprising twist. In April 2007, the court decided not to consider the matter but reversed itself in June. It is believed to be the first time in 60 years that the court changed course in such a manner.

The reversal required at least five of the nine justices to grant review. Normally, only four need to agree to hear a case, and even then very few are granted arguments.


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
--Edmund Burke
ReaganUser is Offline

Posts:741


06/12/2008 3:47 PM Alert 
This really ticks me off. Another cases of the legal system trying to govern from the bench. Instead of making a constitutional decision, they made a "sign of the times" decision.

It also pisses me off that the media says its a loss for the Bush Adminstration. What about the majority of Americans that don't want terrorists that are caught on the battle field to have access to American courts on American soil?

Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence.

Reagan, Los Angeles Times, January 7, 1970
JasonUser is Offline

Posts:3378


06/12/2008 6:53 PM Alert 

So it's OK for us to hold innocent people (American citizens even!) without access to lawyers and due process, indefinitely?


Joined: Jul 2005
Cactus RobUser is Offline

Posts:1155


06/12/2008 7:28 PM Alert 

 

The Jihad Five

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Supreme Court: In a historic first, the right to habeas corpus has been bestowed upon prisoners of war — in wartime. Five justices gave terrorists a new weapon to kill more Americans with: our own Constitution.

www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx

 

jhallUser is Offline

Posts:1342


06/12/2008 7:33 PM Alert 
Enemy combatants during a time of war you mean. Planning to kill me or my countrymen for the sake of their "Jihad" is enough reason for me.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
--Edmund Burke
Cactus RobUser is Offline

Posts:1155


06/12/2008 8:27 PM Alert 

Did you read how many people the prisoners we've released have killed since their release?  

It's a HUGE mistake to let these terrorists have hearings in civil courts within the United States.  I'm sure they have friends living here who are just waiting to become Martyrs by killing themselves and many innocent people during raids on these hearings. 

The Bush administration has done a good job preventing terrorist attacks by keeping tabs on terrorist cells within our borders.  That job just got much more difficult!          

JasonUser is Offline

Posts:3378


06/12/2008 9:05 PM Alert 
Posted By Cactus Rob on 06/12/2008 8:27 PM

Did you read how many people the prisoners we've released have killed since their release?  

It's a HUGE mistake to let these terrorists have hearings in civil courts within the United States.

These two statements have nothing to do with each other. These people were released without a trial in civil court and then they went and killed. Perhaps a civil trial would have actually gotten the job done?

Furthermore, why can't a civil trial do the job?

I'm sure they have friends living here who are just waiting to become Martyrs by killing themselves and many innocent people during raids on these hearings.

Then we have a bigger problem. Fix that one, but it has nothing to do with giving people their basic rights.

The Bush administration has done a good job preventing terrorist attacks by keeping tabs on terrorist cells within our borders.

Really? That disagrees with your previous statement.

 

Again, why is it OK to deny citizens basic rights?

 


Joined: Jul 2005
missPolitickUser is Offline

Posts:645


06/13/2008 9:07 AM Alert 
In my mind the Constitution doesn't apply to terrorists just as the Quran doesn't apply to ME. What rights do they have on our soil? What rights do WE have on THEIR soil? Lets all be equal.

Despite All My Rage I Am Still Just A Rat In A Cage
JasonUser is Offline

Posts:3378


06/13/2008 9:33 AM Alert 
Posted By missPolitick on 06/13/2008 9:07 AM
In my mind the Constitution doesn't apply to terrorists just as the Quran doesn't apply to ME. What rights do they have on our soil? What rights do WE have on THEIR soil? Lets all be equal.


So how do you sort out who is and isn't a terrorist?


Joined: Jul 2005
RichTigUser is Offline

Posts:0

06/13/2008 9:38 AM Alert 

Then they shouldn't capture anymore 'enemy combatants'.  Let them die on the battlefield or after a brief torture/interrogation.  They will be casualties of war.

hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:1004


06/13/2008 11:07 AM Alert 

Some of the justices seem to think that the Constitution is a suicide pact.

ChimneyDuckUser is Offline

Posts:251

06/13/2008 1:36 PM Alert 

Wow, I never realized so many people don't believe in due process.

Many of the people being held, weren't even close to a battlefield. I guess now a battlefield means living in a city now, though. There are plenty that were picked up for just being strangers and sold to the US for bounty money. With that example of rigor in getting these detainees, it's no wonder the military and the executive branch don't want to let them have due process to bring more to light what a fiasco the terrorism hysteria was, but why are the rest of you excusing this behavior?


http://www.maricopabikeclub.com - Join us for a bicycle ride.
RichTigUser is Offline

Posts:0

06/13/2008 1:40 PM Alert 
Posted By ChimneyDuck on 06/13/2008 1:36 PM

Wow, I never realized so many people don't believe in due process.

There are plenty that were picked up for just being strangers and sold to the US for bounty money.

 

 

 

Define 'plenty'

And this data came from.............

Cactus RobUser is Offline

Posts:1155


06/13/2008 3:19 PM Alert 
Posted By Jason on 06/12/2008 9:05 PM
Posted By Cactus Rob on 06/12/2008 8:27 PM

Did you read how many people the prisoners we've released have killed since their release?  

It's a HUGE mistake to let these terrorists have hearings in civil courts within the United States.

These two statements have nothing to do with each other. These people were released without a trial in civil court and then they went and killed. Perhaps a civil trial would have actually gotten the job done?

The two statements don't have anything to do with each other.  That's the reason they're in two separate paragraphs

Furthermore, why can't a civil trial do the job? 

In a civil court everything, including sensitive military intelligence, is discoverable.  What these 5 lawyers have done is precedent setting, but not very well thought out in my opinion. 

I'm sure they have friends living here who are just waiting to become Martyrs by killing themselves and many innocent people during raids on these hearings.

Then we have a bigger problem. Fix that one, but it has nothing to do with giving people their basic rights.

Since I wrote the above paragraph, I've since been advised that  the defendants won't be brought to the courtrooms, they'll remain at Guantanamo for security's sake, so I withdraw this comment.  

The Bush administration has done a good job preventing terrorist attacks by keeping tabs on terrorist cells within our borders.

Really? That disagrees with your previous statement.

Previous statement withdrawn.

Again, why is it OK to deny citizens basic rights?

These aren't citizens, they're war criminals.  And if any of them are citizens, I think they gave up their right to claim citizenship when they were captured in a war zone killing American and allied troops.  

ChimneyDuckUser is Offline

Posts:251

06/15/2008 6:43 AM Alert 
Reports on detainees from Seton Hall University of Law

http://law.shu.edu/aaafinal.pdf
http://law.shu.edu/news/second_report_guantanamo_detainees_3_20_final.pdf

http://www.maricopabikeclub.com - Join us for a bicycle ride.
cavemanUser is Offline

Posts:1235


06/17/2008 12:41 AM Alert 
Posted By missPolitick on 06/13/2008 9:07 AM
In my mind the Constitution doesn't apply to terrorists just as the Quran doesn't apply to ME. What rights do they have on our soil? What rights do WE have on THEIR soil? Lets all be equal.


Who is THEY and WE? There were people we had detained that were US citizens. Why would a US citizen be denied his due process? Is this legal? No it is not and once again the high court let Bush know that all his illegal crap won't fly anymore. Great decision by the judges, these guys are supposed to rot in a cell without being brought up on any crimes or any charges? It is time for some  accountability and the Supreme Court did us a good one for the ol US of A.

cavemanUser is Offline

Posts:1235


06/17/2008 12:43 AM Alert 

 

These aren't citizens, they're war criminals.  And if any of them are citizens, I think they gave up their right to claim citizenship when they were captured in a war zone killing American and allied troops.  

That is a great sound byte but is that what happened to Jose Padilla? He was captured in Chicago. Is that a war zone? Were there American and allied troops there?

Cactus RobUser is Offline

Posts:1155


06/17/2008 7:58 AM Alert 

caveman,

My Google search disclosed evidence to support our government's claim that he was an American citizen aiding and abetting the enemy.  As a citizen, he had access to lawyers who defended him in numerous hearings in a number of courts during his incarceration.  

The Google search also disclosed that he was eventually found guilty of some of the charges and is now serving a 17 year sentence in a maximum security prison in Colorado.  His lawyers apparently are still milking the rest of us (taxpayers) for all we're worth through the appeal process.   

I think if you'll research individual names of detainees at Guantanamo, you'll find that most of them have have been granted far more rights and protections than the anti-Bush folks want you to know.

Here's just one of a number of resources available through Google.    

abcnews.go.com/US/wirestory

JasonUser is Offline

Posts:3378


06/17/2008 9:37 AM Alert 
Posted By Cactus Rob on 06/13/2008 3:19 PM

Furthermore, why can't a civil trial do the job? 

In a civil court everything, including sensitive military intelligence, is discoverable.  What these 5 lawyers have done is precedent setting, but not very well thought out in my opinion. 

It is entirely possible to prosecute in civil court, such as what was done in 2002 with Hamza (John) Walker Lindh and in 1997 with Ramzi Yusuf.

These aren't citizens, they're war criminals.

Not universally true. There have been US Citizens in there and they have been held without their basic rights. You cannot simply claim that a citizen is a war criminal, you must prove it. Furthermore, if they are all war criminals, why did we release so many of them?
  And if any of them are citizens, I think they gave up their right to claim citizenship when they were captured in a war zone killing American and allied troops.  

The Constitution disagrees with you. When we start tossing out provisions of the Constitution because we don't like them, where does it stop?

Joined: Jul 2005
Cactus RobUser is Offline

Posts:1155


06/17/2008 4:04 PM Alert 

Jason,

Regarding Ramzi Yusif, the World Trade Center bomber, I can easily understand why he was charged in a civilian court rather than a military one.  

I don't know about John Walker.  It may have been part of his plea deal.  It could be that had he not accepted the plea bargain, he risked being court marshaled.   Also, I think there were some questions about his mental competence.  I'm just guessing, I don't know!

Regarding alleged rights violations, do your own research.  Don't believe everything the Bush Administration haters claim.  I believe every detainee at Guantanamo has access to an attorney.  And regarding those released without a trial, I'm sure there are legitimate reasons.  Maybe they had better attorneys!     

You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 1 of 212 > >>

Forums > General Discussion > Politics > Supreme court has lost it's mind



ActiveForums 3.6