I do, though I don't know that area well enough to tell you what the name of the subdivisions are.  Check up and down Hunt Highway and see what you find.  Remember that Queen Creek is half in Maricopa County and half in Pinal County.  The areas in Maricopa County are selling higher because they can do that there...it's different in a county with a lower tax rate.   For a line-by-line comparison, you'll want to check areas such as Johnson Ranch and Magma Ranch.  Take a drive when gas prices aren't so ridiculous, I bet you'll be interested at what you see out there.  As in, the same stuff you'd see here, but far further away from central Phoenix.

As far as the signs make the town sound, I don't worry about that and neither should you. The reason is simple..people can believe what they want to believe, but the heart of this town isn't in some paper value of the house next door.  The heart of this city plays ball at Pacana Park, smiles at the checkout girl at Fry's, waves at the passing Maricopa Fire engine, and leaves a nice tip for the friendly server at Teakwood's.  Get my drift?  This town isn't a number, and isn't about a number.  And those who come here looking for a place to get started understand that.

After all, you and your wife did.  And I did too.

Great to hear the positive news about your wife, by the way.  Tell her we're pulling for her.

Posted By CliffinAZ on 03/05/2008 10:19 PM

GilaGuy--do you know of any new builds in Queen Creek that are currently selling for as low as $90K? I think MusicAddict's impression about the lowest house prices being here comes from the fact that she was looking at real estate listings in Queen Creek for new builds and didn't see anything that low. She also spoke to people in Queen Creek about those starting prices, who said "You've gotta be kidding--they're not even starting that low here."

I also think that when people drive by from outside of Maricopa (to go to the casino for example) and see that sign "starting in the 90s," that it gives us a reputation of being a place with absolutely dirt-cheap housing (which is confirmed anectodally by things people say when I tell them I live in Maricopa). I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

I'd be curious to know your thoughts on all of this.


Atreus Homes, formerly Homelife Communities, has a 993 sq ft Atherton one car garage model at Magma Ranch in Queen Creek for $85,990. They also have a 998 sq ft Atherton two car garage model at Tortosa in Maricopa for $139,990.

They appear to be the same house except the Maricopa model comes with the two car garage.

The Atreus at Magma Ranch was the least expensive new home I've seen in Maricopa or Queen Creek.

The Elite Communities 1,047 sq ft home for $99,900 at Tortosa in Maricopa was the next close one.

Ryland has a 954 sq ft home for $99,900 also.Their 1,269 sq ft Columbia model is $10,000 more in Queen Creek.

Cactus at Senita by Pulte has a 1,057 sq ft home for $99,990.

KB Home has a 1,095 sq ft home for $100,990 at Desert Passage south of Honeycutt along White & Parker.

DRHorton has a 1,066 sq ft Young model at Trailhead/Trailside at Homestead for $115,200 in Maricopa. The same house is at Hawthorne at Pecan Creek South for $112,300 and Milano at Copper Basin for $100,700 both in the Queen Creek Vicinity .

SheaHomes has a 1,501 sq ft model both in Maricopa and Queen Creek for the same starting price of $138,990. The 2,470 sq ft model in that same series though is $13,000 more at the Queen Creek location.

And just for fun, Fulton has a 5,900 sq ft home with a basement at Aegean Cove along Arizona Ave in Chandler that starts at $964,900. It's very posh.

Thanks Lees 2.  I'm so sorry to hear what happened to your friend, and your girlfriend's dog (as a pet person, I know how devastating something like that can be).  Apparently, if your body doesn't fight it off you get the disseminated form, which is pretty horrible.  If you see my last post about it, the great news is that even with her very weakened immune system, MusicAddict seems to have amazingly fought this off--and we found out from a Valley Fever specialist that if you fight it off successfully, you become immune to it.  (If you don't, it becomes the disseminated form and never goes away.)  We are incredibly grateful and relieved!!  I wouldn't like to think what the chronic form of Valley Fever could have done to MusicAddict, with her other illnesses. 

I'd like to thank you and everyone else for their very kind words.  It is great to know that there are such supportive people here in Maricopa! 

I bet it is.   

Thanks for taking the time to post all of those specific comparisons.  Between what you and Gila Guy said I'm definitely feeling a little better!

I'm glad to hear it, friend.

And thanks for posting those figures, Rex!  That nice posh house sounds a bit large for my liking.  I've always wondered...how do folks with houses that big keep them cool in the summer?  I'm guessing that would take a minimum of three separate air conditioning units.  The utility bill alone would be enough to give me heart failure.

In a way, those of us who moved to Maricopa early on didn't have it quite so rough...because there were far fewer locals to choose from.  In the beginning (after God created Heaven and Earth and all that) there was Rancho.  Then there was Rancho and Acacia.  Then there was Rancho and Acacia and about four houses in the Villages.  Then there was Rancho and Acacia and about four houses in the Villages and Maricopa Meadows.  Then there was...oh I don't know, about five other subdivisions all seeming to spring up overnight where once there were tall trees.  And the folks who arrived at that time had a heck of a choice to make, alright.

I can certainly understand the frustration of living next to the Reservation, there's that issue of not really having any controlling authority to talk to when things go wrong over there.  We bear witness to that every time we drive on a crowded 347 which Gila River will not offer permission to modify. 

The issue of the adjustable loans though is trickier.  While it is perhaps understandable to learn a hard lesson with respect to just how bad things can be adjacent to a sovereign land, adjustable loans are and were a known quantity.  They were warned against by economists in print, on radio, and on TV; and all the information was out there as to how "teaser rates" work.  It is always unfortunate whenever anyone has to suffer because of a change in the rates, but it is never wholly unpredictable.  Some experts (like LeonPotter, for example) can make efficient use of adjustable loans, but most of us cannot and should not.  Unfortunately for many of our friends and neighbors, this will likely be a lesson learned the hard way.    Best of luck to all those who are going through such times...

It's unbelievable the pressure that many agents and lenders were trying to exert on people to get adjustable loans--even when my wife and I were doing our house search after the market had been crashing for a while. "You're not going to be in your house for more than 5 years before you're ready to move up."  "You'll get more house for your money."  I can't tell you how many times during the process (and for different properties/with different lenders) we had to insist that we were interested in a fixed-rate loan only. 

My understanding is that the lenders have now done a 180 as a result of the fallout from all of this, and it's next to impossible (even for some people with pretty good credit) to get a loan because they are so risk-avoidant.

There was pressure all around to buy homes via loans. I don't believe it mattered what kind of loan. Sales agents are paid on commission.They are paid by the transaction. So volume counts. Different types of products were rolled out to "help" the purchaser; I/0, various cousins of ARMS ( Option ARMS, 3/1,5/1,etc). Then there was the various "types of paper"; prime, ALT, subprime. The borrower could do "no doc" loans.

What all these various types of programs did was invite more risk into the market place. This risk comes at a price. The price is charged to the borrower in various ways; higher rates, origination fees, points, and prepayment penalties.

All the while, the fervor of everclimbing property values fed on itself. Buyers  A) didn't want to wait because they were afraid they would be priced out b) saw easy dollars by getting in and making a quick sale unscathed.

What was a common theme was " we can get you this type of loan now, and in two years I can help you with refi because home values will have gone up and your credit would be better."

The general public bought into the case that home values could never decrease.This is still thrown my way even after the events that have transpired the past 1 1/2 years. In my view, the problem weren't the ARMS, but the lack of understanding of the various programs out there. Generally, people rely on professional help. That in itself isn't bad. The challenge comes when the "professional" help has bills to be paid . They may or may not undersand what they are offering the buyer. Either way is pretty scary. Because if you asked them to guarantee by compensating you if things turned bad, they would all laugh.

Why would they care? They got paid when the sale closed. When someone is in dire straights within two years, no one is going to go back and pull the commissons that were paid.

The agents had no problem offering to refi before the ink was dry on the current deal. They saw more transactions on the horizon. But to me, if I had to go two years to get a good deal that meant the deal I'm being offered now isn't so great. I would be worse off for agreeing to the deal in the first place if I had to look to the future to "fix it".

Regarding ARM vs Fix, I had the opposite experience from a lender's agent. I did want an ARM. They were persistant that I got a fixed rate. Were they worried about my financial well being? No, I don't think so because the fixed rate was higher than the ARMS. The lender's agent even offered to "refi in a couple of years". Well, I read bad deal in that offer.
Eventually, I went thru another party and got what I wanted, an ARM(conventional). I did refi a little over a year later. Not because I was in dire straights, but because I saw a chance to improve the rate at truly no cost(okay, approx $200,but that was waived.)

Why did I want an ARM(conventional). There were a few reasons. 1) the APR is less than on a fixed, if rates go up I have a cushion built in(spread). 2)If rates go down, I have an automatic refi built into the agreement and I don't pay anyone for the honor nor do I have to go thru any underwriting. 3) If I overpay principal and/or rates drop, the min. payment will readjust down on the anniversary. This is because the payment is based on the remaining term, balance, and rate on anniversary date.

On the surface this may not be a big deal, but it provides more options. For example, I can defer more income pretax if desirable.

Lenders doing a 180 says it all.

Lees, I'm sorry to hear about what happened with your husband's friend--your husband should have listened to his wife.    I was lucky enough to have a brother who is very knowledgable in real estate, and wanted to make me aware of all of the risks when I was first starting to educate myself around buying a house.  He told me a number of horror stories around risky/unconventional loans at the time.

Right now with my wife, it seems that she has fought off the valley fever. Unfortunately, it is looking like she has lupus (in addition to her other stuff, which may have actually precipitated the lupus). Initial testing was positive, and we're waiting for the results of further bloodwork now, and seeing a rheumatologist next week. At least if that's the case, we'll know what's going on and why she's been having a lot of the strange symptoms she's been having.

I imagine you weren't the most popular--it's nature for many people to listen to what they want to hear rather than what makes good sense but maybe gives them less house than they wanted.