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| | Author | Messages | |
JasonY
Posts:2589
 | | 02/04/2008 3:16 PM |
 Alert | | Any time you try to explain God by putting him in a box, you are no longer talking about God. God is all-powerful, he makes the laws of nature and can break them whenever he wants because is God. Mankind makes his own laws and breaks them all the time. | |
"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black | |
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| | 8DaysDazed
Posts:86
| | 02/04/2008 3:18 PM |
Alert | | If he followed the Laws of Physics, how could he have created the earth,the heavens,and the stars? | | | |
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| | 8DaysDazed
Posts:86
| | 02/04/2008 3:23 PM |
Alert | Posted By JasonY on 02/04/2008 3:16 PM
Any time you try to explain God by putting him in a box, you are no longer talking about God. God is all-powerful, he makes the laws of nature and can break them whenever he wants because is God. Mankind makes his own laws and breaks them all the time.
pretty convenient answer.
Man does break his own laws (and Gods) all the time, but we're imperfect mortals. Shouldn't God hold to a higher standard and follow the laws he created?
Does he have o repent after he breaks one of his laws? | | | |
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| | JasonY
Posts:2589
| | 02/04/2008 3:33 PM |
Alert | | Since he is God, he answers to no one. What laws has he broken? Ones that man created and tries to hold God to uphold? | |
"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black | |
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| | 8DaysDazed
Posts:86
| | 02/04/2008 3:36 PM |
Alert | | he created matter, when everyone knows that matter cannot be created or destroyed. It's the Law of Conservation, a physics Law that god assumably created. | | | |
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| | moinmoin
Posts:413
| | 02/04/2008 6:10 PM |
Alert | Posted By JasonY on 02/04/2008 3:16 PM
Any time you try to explain God by putting him in a box, you are no longer talking about God. God is all-powerful, he makes the laws of nature and can break them whenever he wants because is God. Mankind makes his own laws and breaks them all the time.
First of all, our current knowledge of the laws of phyiscs, laws of nature, whatever you want to call them, is subject to further increases in knowledge. We will probably look back quaintly in two hundred years at current scientific thought the same way we look at the theory of "ether" or "phlogiston" from the 1700s.
Second, rather than saying that God "breaks" laws of physics, it's probably more accurate to say that we don't fully understand how the laws of phyiscs/laws of nature in their ultimate form operate. Miracles are not, in my view, violations of law; they are God using the laws in ways we don't understand at this time. Examples: the sun standing still, the shadow on the sundial going back 15 degrees, turning water into wine, multiplying the loaves and the fishes, etc.
I think these all operate according to laws, but we aren't yet in a position to understand them.
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|  | ken
Posts:532
| | 02/04/2008 6:39 PM |
Alert | Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/04/2008 3:36 PM
he created matter, when everyone knows that matter cannot be created or destroyed. It's the Law of Conservation, a physics Law that god assumably created.
You are again putting God into a box. God didn't need to create the matter. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Maybe the matter itself is God, maybe its not. Maybe it existed with God forever and matter is the material he used to create Heaven and Earth.
Truth is I'm not sure how it was done. I hope to ask Him someday though. Like I said before... both of our view points require us to rely on faith. Mine is the faith in the belief of God and yours is the faith in His disbelief. | |
"Knowledge is often mistaken for intelligence. This is like mistaking a cup of milk for a cow." -- Unknown | |
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| | 8DaysDazed
Posts:86
| | 02/05/2008 2:40 PM |
Alert | Posted By moinmoin on 02/04/2008 6:10 PM Posted By JasonY on 02/04/2008 3:16 PM
Any time you try to explain God by putting him in a box, you are no longer talking about God. God is all-powerful, he makes the laws of nature and can break them whenever he wants because is God. Mankind makes his own laws and breaks them all the time. First of all, our current knowledge of the laws of phyiscs, laws of nature, whatever you want to call them, is subject to further increases in knowledge. We will probably look back quaintly in two hundred years at current scientific thought the same way we look at the theory of "ether" or "phlogiston" from the 1700s. Second, rather than saying that God "breaks" laws of physics, it's probably more accurate to say that we don't fully understand how the laws of phyiscs/laws of nature in their ultimate form operate. Miracles are not, in my view, violations of law; they are God using the laws in ways we don't understand at this time. Examples: the sun standing still, the shadow on the sundial going back 15 degrees, turning water into wine, multiplying the loaves and the fishes, etc. I think these all operate according to laws, but we aren't yet in a position to understand them.
I have no doubt that the scientific discoveries made over the next 200 will change the world in ways we cannot even comprehend. But when something is a Scientific Law, it's kinda set in stone. Believers always bash evolution because it is a theory (although it is fact). You cannot have it both ways, a law is a law and the Laws of Conservation will stand accordingly and matter cannot be created nor destroyed. As for the sun standing still, it always does (in reference to our solar system) the earth is the one that moves. No comment on your other miracles. | | | |
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| | 8DaysDazed
Posts:86
| | 02/05/2008 2:42 PM |
Alert | Posted By ken on 02/04/2008 6:39 PM Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/04/2008 3:36 PM
he created matter, when everyone knows that matter cannot be created or destroyed. It's the Law of Conservation, a physics Law that god assumably created. You are again putting God into a box. God didn't need to create the matter. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Maybe the matter itself is God, maybe its not. Maybe it existed with God forever and matter is the material he used to create Heaven and Earth. Truth is I'm not sure how it was done. I hope to ask Him someday though. Like I said before... both of our view points require us to rely on faith. Mine is the faith in the belief of God and yours is the faith in His disbelief.
I don't have faith is his disbelief. I follow the answers, and science is the only party providing answers at this time. Maybe that will change, but for the time being science is the way to go for me. | | | |
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| | hastings1066
Posts:883
| | 02/05/2008 5:53 PM |
Alert | Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/05/2008 2:40 PM Posted By moinmoin on 02/04/2008 6:10 PM Posted By JasonY on 02/04/2008 3:16 PM
Any time you try to explain God by putting him in a box, you are no longer talking about God. God is all-powerful, he makes the laws of nature and can break them whenever he wants because is God. Mankind makes his own laws and breaks them all the time. First of all, our current knowledge of the laws of phyiscs, laws of nature, whatever you want to call them, is subject to further increases in knowledge. We will probably look back quaintly in two hundred years at current scientific thought the same way we look at the theory of "ether" or "phlogiston" from the 1700s. Second, rather than saying that God "breaks" laws of physics, it's probably more accurate to say that we don't fully understand how the laws of phyiscs/laws of nature in their ultimate form operate. Miracles are not, in my view, violations of law; they are God using the laws in ways we don't understand at this time. Examples: the sun standing still, the shadow on the sundial going back 15 degrees, turning water into wine, multiplying the loaves and the fishes, etc. I think these all operate according to laws, but we aren't yet in a position to understand them. I have no doubt that the scientific discoveries made over the next 200 will change the world in ways we cannot even comprehend. But when something is a Scientific Law, it's kinda set in stone. Believers always bash evolution because it is a theory (although it is fact). You cannot have it both ways, a law is a law and the Laws of Conservation will stand accordingly and matter cannot be created nor destroyed. As for the sun standing still, it always does (in reference to our solar system) the earth is the one that moves. No comment on your other miracles.
Sun standing still! Be careful, Galileo got into a world of hurt when he said that. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 02/05/2008 6:36 PM |
Alert | Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/05/2008 2:42 PM Posted By ken on 02/04/2008 6:39 PM Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/04/2008 3:36 PM
he created matter, when everyone knows that matter cannot be created or destroyed. It's the Law of Conservation, a physics Law that god assumably created. You are again putting God into a box. God didn't need to create the matter. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Maybe the matter itself is God, maybe its not. Maybe it existed with God forever and matter is the material he used to create Heaven and Earth. Truth is I'm not sure how it was done. I hope to ask Him someday though. Like I said before... both of our view points require us to rely on faith. Mine is the faith in the belief of God and yours is the faith in His disbelief. I don't have faith is his disbelief. I follow the answers, and science is the only party providing answers at this time. Maybe that will change, but for the time being science is the way to go for me.
Science is generating dozens of questions for every one that they answer. The truth, the reality is that scientists know no more than anyone else.
Besides that, part of the scientific process is that sometimes, wrong answers will be generated. |
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Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 02/05/2008 6:48 PM |
Alert | Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/04/2008 1:29 PM
Matter cannot be created or destroyed.
Matter cannot be created or destroyed by natural processes.
Fixed. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | 8DaysDazed
Posts:86
| | 02/05/2008 7:06 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/05/2008 6:48 PM Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/04/2008 1:29 PM
Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Matter cannot be created or destroyed by natural processes. Fixed.
missed that disclaimer in my college texts. Sure am glad they separate the church and state, similar to them separating the fiction and non-fiction sections in a library. | | | |
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| | 8DaysDazed
Posts:86
| | 02/05/2008 7:08 PM |
Alert | "The truth, the reality is that scientists know no more than anyone else."
you've made some pretty off-the-wall statements in the past, but this one takes the cake. | | | |
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| | hastings1066
Posts:883
| | 02/05/2008 7:09 PM |
Alert | Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/05/2008 7:06 PM Posted By Jason on 02/05/2008 6:48 PM Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/04/2008 1:29 PM
Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Matter cannot be created or destroyed by natural processes. Fixed. missed that disclaimer in my college texts. Sure am glad they separate the church and state, similar to them separating the fiction and non-fiction sections in a library.
If matter cannot be created then where did it come from? Does someone have cake? | | | |
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| | 8DaysDazed
Posts:86
| | 02/05/2008 8:11 PM |
Alert | | it's always been here in one form or another. It has to have been, because there is no way god would break one of the laws of physics that he created (according to ID) and made it from nothing. It would be kind of hypocritical for him to break his own laws wouldn't it? | | | |
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| | missPolitick
Posts:644
| | 02/05/2008 9:45 PM |
Alert | | Ok 8days, I figured it out. You have committed some HUGE sin and are feeling REALLY guilty so you're trying to explain away the existance of God to make yourself feel better. Well, the guilt won't magically vanish no matter how many lies you tell yourself so be a man, bite the bullet and repent, kiss and make up. You'll feel better and we can all move on to other topics. | |
Despite All My Rage I Am Still Just A Rat In A Cage | |
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| | hastings1066
Posts:883
| | 02/05/2008 10:25 PM |
Alert | Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/05/2008 8:11 PM
it's always been here in one form or another. It has to have been, because there is no way god would break one of the laws of physics that he created (according to ID) and made it from nothing. It would be kind of hypocritical for him to break his own laws wouldn't it?
So, if matter has always been and can't be explaned, is that not as big a mystery as the existence of God? | | | |
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| | 8DaysDazed
Posts:86
| | 02/06/2008 9:04 AM |
Alert | Posted By hastings1066 on 02/05/2008 10:25 PM Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/05/2008 8:11 PM
it's always been here in one form or another. It has to have been, because there is no way god would break one of the laws of physics that he created (according to ID) and made it from nothing. It would be kind of hypocritical for him to break his own laws wouldn't it? So, if matter has always been and can't be explaned, is that not as big a mystery as the existence of God?
NO, it's not, not even close. The physical world and physical universe can seen, measured, and tested. The existence of god cannot. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 02/06/2008 10:01 AM |
Alert | Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/04/2008 2:00 PM
Ken, I think you answered your own question....it always existed in one form or another.
That's not physically possible.
Posted By 8DaysDazed on 02/04/2008 2:25 PM
Besides if God created the Laws of Physics, wouldn't he be bound by them or at least inclined to follow them?
Not necessarily. For instance, as a programmer, I setup certain rules for my programs to follow. Sometimes in order to get them to work correctly (such as to generate a data file that the application wouldn't normally be allowed to generate) I bend or break the rules temporarily. Why are you thinking in such a narrow-minded world view?
If you build a box and you set a rule that nothing in the box is allowed to be purple, are you saying that as the box-creator, you're not allowed to temporarily override the rules? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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