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| | Author | Messages | |
DaybyDay
Posts:288

 | | 04/16/2008 2:07 PM |
Alert | I am not sure how to answer that. However, if what the LDS prophets and religion were doing was in line with the Word of God, then we would not be having this debate and no one would fault the LDS church correct? The simple fact that we (and others before and those behind) us are having this discussion about open/closed canon means that there is something wrong in the translation. I don't for one minute believe that anyone's mind is going to be changed through this forum. Lives are changed through face to face, day by day, interaction and contact.
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| | Bionicbunny
Posts:594


 | | 04/16/2008 2:46 PM |
Alert | "Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God." Mark 10:27 I don't believe that these words spoken by Jesus only pertain to entering the kingdom of heaven, I believe all things are possible with God as far as keeping the Bible perfect also. Do Mormons believe that God would allow the Bible to be altered in a way He did not mean it to be? Don't you believe that God is all powerful? I can't imagine He would need another book to explain what He couldn't explain well enough in the first one, He is God!
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| | qwerty
Posts:139


 | | 04/16/2008 3:18 PM |
Alert | I understand what both of your are saying (DbD and BB). But please remember that Mormons DO firmly believe in and LOVE the bible. Here is another great talk given by one of our leaders that talks about the LDS perception of the Bible. www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp The simple fact is we believe that God also taught those on the Ancient American content and that those teachings are contained in the Book of Mormon. The supposed conflicts between the Book of Mormon and the Bible are due to individual, human interpretations of the meanings, not because God didn't explain it well enough. A lot of scriptures are difficult to understand and can be interpreted different ways (e.g. Isaiah prophecies) and I think God challenges us to really seek him in our study so we can better understand His message. I admit...I am definitely not a scriptorian or have all the answers...but I read and study every day hoping to better understand God's Will specifically for me.
I know we will probably never agree on these points and that is fine. Just please know that the Bible sits hand-in-hand with my Book of Mormon and I uphold it as scripture just as much. I know you will say that they contradict, but I respectfully disagree. :-) | | | |
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| | qwerty
Posts:139


 | | 04/16/2008 3:25 PM |
Alert | | Sorry moinmoin. This has gotten quite a bit off the topic from your original post. :-) | | | |
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| | Bionicbunny
Posts:594


 | | 04/16/2008 4:09 PM |
Alert | I'm not sure we need to agree on those points. I don't believe that God cares what you call yourself (Mormon, Catholic, Baptist, etc) because what matters is your relationship with Him. I believe that He will call us to be where He wants us to be. Hopefully we will be listening! :-) | | | |
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| | RichTig
Posts:0

 | | 04/16/2008 5:45 PM |
Alert | I think god does care about what you call yourself. Choose right and spend eternal bliss at his side or choose wrong and burn for all eternity. The choice is yours. FREE WILL! | | | |
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| | DaybyDay
Posts:288

 | | 04/16/2008 5:53 PM |
Alert | | I agree with your RichTig (did I just write that)? It DOES matter what you believe and what you call yourself. Yes, there is free will. | | | |
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| | Bionicbunny
Posts:594


 | | 04/16/2008 10:26 PM |
Alert | So daybyday, what do you need to call yourself in order to make it in to heaven? (For the record I never said it didn't matter what you believe) | | | |
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| | DaybyDay
Posts:288

 | | 04/17/2008 8:12 AM |
Alert | Romans 10:9 (New International Version)
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. | | | |
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| | love@hm
Posts:486

 | | 04/17/2008 9:21 AM |
Alert | Romans 10:9 (New International Version)
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
I believe that.
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| | DaybyDay
Posts:288

 | | 04/17/2008 1:42 PM |
Alert | | There must be major theological differences since LDS call themselves Mormons and not Christians. For one, LDS believe that Jesus is an exalted person correct? For that fact, that God is an exalted person. Whereas Christians do not believe these things because it does not show itself biblically. Additionally, there are differences in who the Trinity is vs LDS idea of Trinity. And of course, the open canon vs closed canon. There are many theological differences and so for that reason, I am hard pressed to believe that LDS belief and Chrisitian belief is the same. | | | |
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| | moinmoin
Posts:413


 | | 04/17/2008 1:58 PM |
Alert | For classification purposes, though, you admit that Mormons fit under the sub-heading of "Christianity," right?
Where else would you put it? Hinduism? Taoism? Islam?
Theological differences notwithstanding, the shared belief in Jesus Christ as Savior and Redeemer and acceptance of the Bible as scripture demands this, doesn't it? | | | |
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| | moinmoin
Posts:413


 | | 04/17/2008 2:00 PM |
Alert | Posted By qwerty on 04/16/2008 3:25 PM
Sorry moinmoin. This has gotten quite a bit off the topic from your original post. :-) I don't think it's that far off of the original topic. Besides, that's what makes online discussion fun!  | | | |
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| | Bionicbunny
Posts:594


 | | 04/17/2008 2:00 PM |
Alert | Posted By DaybyDay on 04/17/2008 8:12 AM
Romans 10:9 (New International Version)
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
So what is it that you need to call yourself DaybyDay? You didn't answer my question. You told me that I was wrong and that it does matter what you call yourself. I want to know what you think you need to call yourself to get in to heaven.
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| | Bionicbunny
Posts:594


 | | 04/17/2008 2:07 PM |
Alert | Posted By DaybyDay on 04/17/2008 1:42 PM
There must be major theological differences since LDS call themselves Mormons and not Christians.
Baptists consider themselves Christians, Catholics consider themselves Christians, Methodists consider themselves Christians. Why can't mormons call themselves Christians?
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| | RichTig
Posts:0

 | | 04/17/2008 2:13 PM |
Alert | - Christianity: 2.1 billion
- Islam: 1.3 billion
- Hinduism: 900 million
- Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
- Buddhism: 376 million
- African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
- Sikhism: 23 million
- Juche: 19 million
- Spiritism: 15 million
- Judaism: 14 million
- Baha'i: 7 million
- Jainism: 4.2 million
- Shinto: 4 million
- Cao Dai: 4 million
- Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
- Tenrikyo: 2 million
- Neo-Paganism: 1 million
- Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
- Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
- Scientology: 500 thousand
If you believe in God, you have chosen to reject Allah, Vishnu, Budda, Waheguru and all of the thousands of other gods that other people worship today. It is quite likely that you rejected these other gods without ever looking into their religions or reading their books. You simply absorbed the dominant faith in your home or in the society you grew up in. In the same way, the followers of all these other religions have chosen to reject God. You think their gods are imaginary, and they think your God is imaginary. In other words, each religious person on earth today arbitrarily rejects thousands of gods as imaginary, many of which he/she has never even heard of, and arbitrarily chooses to "believe" in one of them. The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." | | | |
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| | qwerty
Posts:139


 | | 04/17/2008 2:31 PM |
Alert | We do call ourselves Christians, but many others in the Christian community claim that we can not use this title. That's why I was surprised that you even asked that question. The name Mormon is not the official name of the Church. Our Church leaders have done a lot to try to encourage the media to refer to us as members of the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints. That flows right along with the term Christian. I definately consider myself a Christian. More so than the name Mormon as Mormon was simply a Prophet. I worship Jesus Christ. | | | |
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| | DaybyDay
Posts:288

 | | 04/17/2008 3:24 PM |
Alert | What separates it is who Christians (and Christian off shoots- Baptistis, Methodists, Catholics, Evangelical- non-denominational) believe about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and who LDS believe about God, jesus and the Holy Spirit. Also, these other Chrstian sects (I don't have a good term for it) all believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, of which there are no others (a closed canon) while LDS do not believe in that (hence the other books that you have).
What gets you into heaven? Well, I think I already stated that with the scripture quoted. You have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that God is God, not an exalted man over however many milienium. Jesus is not an exalted man, this is not supported in the Bible. You believe that ALL three of these make up the Trinity. That all of these are of one God- God. Christians believe that while we can one day go to heaven, we will not be exalted like a god. God is God and we are not, we cannot, and will not be god's no matter how well we do here on earth, no matter what we do here on earth- we will not become gods. This is not supported in the Bible. I also think that LDS believe that there was an apostacy and that through the apostacy, we (non-LDS) were led astray while you (LDS- Joseph Smith) received the true gospel. I have to admit that I don't really understand the whole apostacy question however. I don't know, there are many ways, both blatant and not so blatant) that make LDS different from mainstreal Christian sects.
Are there any other Christians out here that wish to help out here? | | | |
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| | moinmoin
Posts:413


 | | 04/18/2008 4:21 AM |
Alert | Posted By Bionicbunny on 04/15/2008 12:50 PM And regardless of what Smith predicted, it doesn't mean it necessarily came from a good place. What Joseph Smith accomplished in his 39 years of life, both in terms of claimed scripture he provided and the work he founded, the effects of which are evident today in the form of the Mormon people and their effect on their communities, requires an explanation of some sort. I find that most people are much more comfortable with explanations that exclude any element of the supernatural (good or evil): i.e., he made it all up, it was 100% man-made. This is sufficient for those who don't examine his work and its fruit very closely (the vast majority of people), but for those who do, some sort of supernatural explanation becomes necessary: either it is from God or from the devil. The problem with admitting the possibility that it was devil-inspired for a lot of people is that the alternative supernatural explanation (truly God-inspired) becomes much more tenable as a possibility, and that just won't do, especially in our modern world. Which is why considering his demonstrably true prophecies (of which this thread only considers two) is interesting: these just shouldn't be possible in our modern world, but there they are. | | | |
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| | moinmoin
Posts:413


 | | 04/18/2008 4:37 AM |
Alert | Posted By DaybyDay on 04/15/2008 4:15 PM The LDS prophet and LDS God are not the God of the Bible, so I don't know who would be answering those prayers or investigations. I meant if a non-Mormon prayed to God and asked Him to reveal whether what Mormons had taught him or her was true or not. That would have nothing to do with praying to the "Mormon god," would it? Would God answer such a person — independent of Mormons? If a Mormon, disturbed by criticisms of his faith, prays to God (and God would be his conception of God, informed of course by his Mormonism) for guidance and answers, will the "God of the Bible" answer him? Are you saying that He would not answer? While Mormon missionaries teach people about what they believe to be the true nature of God (physical body, separate being from Jesus Christ, etc.) our experience is that people we teach who humble themselves and ask God if our message is true can receive answers, even if their conception of God when praying doesn't yet square with the "Mormon view. I find the thought that receiving answers from and communicating with God depends entirely on praying to the "right" God to be fascinating. I believe He is more "all-powerful" than that, and that He can communicate with His children who seek Him, even if they do not yet have a full understanding of His nature. | | | |
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