This makes no sense.  If god (I assume it's the god of the bible rather than another god)  gave us free will, than god can not know what choices we make.  If god does not know what choices we make than god is not omnicsient.  If god is not omniscient than god is not the god of the bible as the god of the bible is omniscient.  Ergo  if free will exists god is not a god and the god of the bible does not exist.

If god does know what choices one makes before one makes them than one can only choose that which god already knows one will choose.  If one chooses otherwise than god will be wrong and not the god of the bible.  If one chooses what god already knows one will choose than one has no free will as the choice is preordained by what god knows.  Ergo if god is a god of the bible than free will does not exist.

If one uses the intellect god gave one than the illogical and contrary nature of the beliefs must force one to see and admit the falsity.  If one chooses not to use the intellect one's god has given one than god has failed as a creator in that god's creation fails in both the design and implementation -- just like a watch that does not work.  Ergo  one can not believe in both the god of the bible and free will existing concurrently  -- they are mutually exclusive.

dizzy...where is my shovel???

So here's what I'm caught up on. Why do we have to be tested if God already knows our choices? I feel resentful sometimes that we're supposed to strive for perfection, even though He knows we will mess up, and we're made to feel guilty when we mess up even though He expects us to mess up.

I wouldn't put a cookie in front of a 2 yr. old and tell him not to eat it and if he does he will get a spanking, then walk away to see what happens! I know the 2yr. old WILL eat the cookie because he can't help himself. So why make him feel guilty about it when you knew he would do it in the first place?

It's just not nice. I would never treat my child that way.

Moinmoin-please help me put this into perspective.

ST. Augustine argued that God has foreknowledge of human action but does not cause them (free will). St. Thomas wrote that God's omnipotence does not include predetermination.Early Protestant leaders like Calvin felt that free will was a fiction due to the predestination of mans acts by God.

some argue that some acts are morally free (not sins), for instance the acts of the insane and of young children (as in your analogy). So you pay your dime and take your pick.

MissPolitick,

It is about growing into our perfection. Where we realize the 2 yr old will always take the cookie, we still have to teach them when it is the right time to take the cookie and the importance of following directions. Unless we do this, the 2 yr old will become a 35 yr old who still takes the cookie. But we don’t teach this all at once, at first, we don’t really put the cookie in front of the 2 yr old and walk away. We instead, sit with them and tell them not to touch the cookie and praise them when they do well.

Without the test and the learning experiences we cannot be truly perfected. Would you stop teaching a 2 yr old to not take the cookie, simply because they continually ‘messed up’? No. Because you understand it is important that the 2 yr old learn to follow the instructions. As adults will we ever be perfect at following directions? No. But we can learn to stop taking cookies, and we can learn a whole lot of other things too! And we can rise to our full potential when given the opportunity, but we can’t do this if we are never given the opportunity. If you were the 35 yr old whose mother never taught to stop taking cookies, how would you know you had the potential to NOT take the cookie?

Without coming to earth we could not become perfect. Bodies are necessary, but there is more to it. We still have to learn and experience. Even with the knowledge of the gospel in the pre-existence we have not grown to learn for ourselves what we can and are willing to do. It is much less about showing an all-knowing god what we can do, and much more about teaching ourselves humility in God and how to overcome our weaknesses. Remember, this is NOT something we can do without the Atonement.

We are taught line upon line and precept upon precept; little by little. Heavenly Father gave us parents and church leaders and prophets and scripture to teach us what is right and what is wrong and to learn about Him and the commandments He has given us. He will judge us according to what knowledge of Him we are given and what we do with our knowledge.

Remember D&C 82:3 For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation.

Those of us that receive only so much of the knowledge but do everything we possibly can with it, will not be judged the same as the person who receives much of the knowledge but still ignores the gift he has been given. EVEN if in the end we appear to be at the same level.

Quickly, I’ll touch on one other related topic. I was once listening to the TV while cleaning out a closet. I wish I had taken the time to know who it was I was listening to – as I would love to refresh myself on the talk. The speaker was talking about our trials and why we have them. He made the point, and I loved this – that they were more than just a test to see if we would have faith in God, but also a test to see if we would continue no matter how difficult it got, because: (major LDS doctrine coming here) He has to know and we have to learn that when things get hard we will not quit, because when we go through what He goes through, it will not be easy and we have to be prepared for those difficulties! We ALL need to know we will not quit!

As for guilt - Guilt is actually a very big blessing, without it we would not repent. It is given to us so we can humble ourselves before the Lord and repent as He has commanded. And isn’t repentance WONDERFUL! It was given to us because we are not perfect, but we can strive to do our best, to follow Christ’s example, and let the atonement pick up the rest.