Posted By DesertDweller on 11/27/2007 8:37 AM
They are not seeking wisdom. The time to acquire knowledge was before they were elected. What they are doing is a public religions ritual that is designed to promote their specific religion over all others. This would be fine in the proper context, but not at a meeting that is intended to do the business of, and therefore represent, ALL of the people.

Unlike some religions, like Islam, the Christian faithful are allowed to pray anywhere they wish without ritual. No prayer rugs. No facing the east. You can pray while driving (provided you don't text-message God) or you can pray silently while sitting in your chair. Thus, the only reason for the ritual is promotion of the faith over all others or promotion of the individual as a member of that faith. Don't forget the Pharisee, a zealous, self-righteous hypocrite who chose to make public display of his religious practice.

Posted By Jason on 11/24/2007 5:26 PM


This statement is very hypocritical. You ask for someone to be respective of other faiths and then in the same breath tell them they can't believe in what their faith says? Your added "this is 2007" makes your statement reek of new age babble that says we should toss out older ways of doing things just because they are old. Give me a break. If you "totally respect that religion" then you shouldn't make statements like this.

Posted By Holy Roller on 11/26/2007 8:59 AM
Singinsunqueen – the scripture I gave was straight from the KJV Bible and again it says One Faith, One Baptism and, One God.

God is the same today in 2007 as He was the day he spoke life in this world. If you do not like that take it up with Him, He is the author not I.

Any one today can come up with their own religion or own god and call themselves anything they want.

However there is only One True God that wrapped himself in flesh and walked among us and died and rose on the third day and His name is Jesus.

Whether you believe it here on earth or when it’s all said and done, God says every Knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord!!

Posted By CliffinAZ on 11/27/2007 1:52 PM



Jason, I think that you're missing the point--saying it's 2007 doesn't mean that your religion isn't valid, nor is it "new age babble." What I think it was intended to point out is that fact that there is a greater diversity of religion than in the days the country was founded. If the name of Jesus was involked during a non-religious gathering in 1776 America, chances are that everyone in the meeting was a Christian. That's not the case now. Now there are likely to also be Jews, Muslims, etc., who don't want to have Jesus shoved down our throats. I wouldn't take issue so much with a non-demoninational prayer, but this is favoring one religion (that of the members of the city council) over that of others, in a meeting that is intended to represent everyone equally.

Posted By CliffinAZ on 11/27/2007 4:44 PM
To put the shoe on the other foot Jason, how would you feel--as a Christian--if you went to a city council meeting to have a voice in the planning of your city, and the mayor, who happened to be Muslim, said a prayer that was distinctly Muslim and advocating very Muslim beliefs, and asked you to stand during it and pray along with him--and those beliefs that he was asking you to stand and pray for were very non-Christian? Would you stand along with everyone else? Would you sit if everyone else around you stood? Would you feel uncomfortable either way and wonder why you had to deal with that during a meeting for a specifically secular purpose that affected your future as much as that of any Muslim sitting around you?

Can you tell me you wouldn't feel that way at all? I'd be surprised if any non-Christian at a city council meeting being asked to stand and pray to Jesus doesn't feel that way every time it happens.

BTW, the Muslim example was just an example; I'm not saying anything bad about Muslims or anyone who belongs to any other religion.

Posted By Jason on 11/29/2007 9:42 AM




I would not try to make them "any less Christian." That's not my point at all. Please understand that I have no problem with their Christianity or yours. It is their right to be as Christian as they want--but not to ask everyone in the room, Christian or not, to stand and pray along with a very Christian prayer.

That's the part that's alienating to anyone who is a non-Christian, even if it wasn't intended. Jason, I'm in agreement with you about the moment of silence; I think that it would be entirely appropriate.

I'm not backstabbing at all, just pointing out something on this forum that I don't agree with. You are saying that I should bring it to the council's attention rather than discussing it here. If I thought it would make a difference I would, but it has been tried already without success; my understanding is that a number of people have already brought it up, and in some cases during council meetings. So the council and mayor are well aware that they are offending people of other religions by saying a very Christian prayer during council meetings, and STILL refuse to change things--even by simply making the prayers non-denominational, let alone replacing the prayer with the moment of silence. I would just be one more person bringing up what was brought up already, and getting the same response--none--which effectively demonstrates that the mayor and city council couldn't care less.