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| | Author | Messages | |
Jason
Posts:3378
 | | 07/21/2007 5:33 PM |
 Alert | | So the reason was selfish then? You're only doing it so that if you need help in the future, some invisible force will guide someone else to help you? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Ariel
Posts:58
| | 07/21/2007 6:30 PM |
Alert | | "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" does not mean do something for someone and expect something in return, it means treats other people the way that you would want to be treated. If you go around treating people horribly, most likely you will get that in return but if you are kind, helpful and just an all around nice person people are most likely going to be the same way back to you. It doesn't mean that everyone will always be nice or helpful but we can't control the way everyone is going treat us but we can control ourseleves and how we treat other people. People need to be careful that they do not take verses from the bible and translate them into what they want them to mean. To truely understand scripture and what is being said it takes a lot of studying and a relationship with God. | | | |
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| | rex
Posts:294
| | 07/21/2007 8:07 PM |
Alert | You're absolutely right, Jason. What a selfish jerk I've been by helping strangers change their flat tire. Man, what a waste of time. And all that money I turned down. I could have invested it in Google stock then cashed out when it reached $500 per share.
From now on, if anyone is broken down by the side of the road, don't expect me to stop and help! I don't want to be known as selfish. Thanks Jason. :-) | | | |
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| | rex
Posts:294
| | 07/21/2007 8:11 PM |
Alert | Is it selfish to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? If the only reason you practice those words from the Bible is so that you can go to Heaven, isn't that also selfish?
Jason, are you selfish, too?
Are my if-then statements just a bunch of fuzzy logic? | | | |
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| | EEE
Posts:374
| | 07/21/2007 8:53 PM |
Alert | Posted By rex on 07/21/2007 2:11 PM
EEE, if there is no religion in my life, then why did I help someone change a tire by the side of the road (on more than one occasion)? I've been offered money for doing these good deeds, but have absolutely turned it down every time. If it's the good intrinsic feeling I get when helping someone, is that still greed?
If a person has no religion and his core value is greed/money, why have I done good deeds? Must be a miracle.
rex, you need to reread my last couple of post because that is not what I said at all.
My point was without religion(particularly Christianity), how should everybody come to a consensus what are the core values and morals of life.
My point is rex, your core values and morals(yours do sound noble) are going to be different than another person also without Christianity. What makes your core values and morals the way of live when theirs might be survival of the fittest?
You actually sound upset that you changed somebody else's tire in Arizona's heat, you had to take it out on a post that didn't even deal with that.(Even though you volunteered to change the tire)  | |
Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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| | rex
Posts:294
| | 07/21/2007 9:28 PM |
Alert | EEE, I may have interpreted it wrong. This is the statement I was replying to:
posted by EEE: What if a person doesn't want to follow any religion values. His value is about getting money. Is his core value of life wrong?
I thought the word "greed" was in there. I must be wrong. My interpretation is that if a person has no religion, his main objective in life is greed/getting money. I disagree. I believed that my changing a flat tire for a stranger along the road was not motivated by greed/money. BTW, every single time I've helped someone by the side of the road, I've felt great about it. I guess this can still be interpreted as selfish because of my good intrinsic feeling I received.
Maybe I only did it because I've broken down myself. I appreciated the help those times I received it. Christians might interpret this as a Guardian Angel watching and protecting them from danger. Is this too an invisible force that will somehow guide help in a time of need like Jason was referring to?
BTW, If you put a "EEE" or a "Jason" bumper sticker on your car and break down, I would be happy to stop and help either of you. No matter how hot it is outside; no matter how dirty my hands are after changing the tire. :-)
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|  | EEE
Posts:374
| | 07/21/2007 9:46 PM |
Alert | Posted By rex on 07/21/2007 9:28 PM
EEE, I may have interpreted it wrong. This is the statement I was replying to:
posted by EEE: What if a person doesn't want to follow any religion values. His value is about getting money. Is his core value of life wrong?
I thought the word "greed" was in there. I must be wrong. My interpretation is that if a person has no religion, his main objective in life is greed/getting money. I disagree. I believed that my changing a flat tire for a stranger along the road was not motivated by greed/money. BTW, every single time I've helped someone by the side of the road, I've felt great about it. I guess this can still be interpreted as selfish because of my good intrinsic feeling I received.
Maybe I only did it because I've broken down myself. I appreciated the help those times I received it. Christians might interpret this as a Guardian Angel watching and protecting them from danger. Is this too an invisible force that will somehow guide help in a time of need like Jason was referring to?
BTW, If you put a "EEE" or a "Jason" bumper sticker on your car and break down, I would be happy to stop and help either of you. No matter how hot it is outside; no matter how dirty my hands are after changing the tire. :-)
I can understand why you would think that from that line. If you took it in context with all my post that dealt with that portion of the conversation you probably would see my point more clearly. No harm and no worries, as long as you understand that I don't think for a second that non religious people have no core values or morals. I posted in another thread how the bible teaches that God has even gave the wicked a conscious to do good works, so I definitely believe the unsaved have core values and morals.
Thanks for the offer rex! However if I put a bumper sticker on my car with EEE, I'm sure there will be others who would love to run me off the road.   | |
Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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| | rex
Posts:294
| | 07/21/2007 9:57 PM |
Alert | | Sorry about that EEE, my bad. Geez, I hope no one would run you off the road. I'd stop for ya. I'd even stop for the lady that called me a lazy, no account, handout Liberal. It would be a great opportunity for me to get her to change her mind. :-) | | | |
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| | TortosaGuy
Posts:676
| | 07/21/2007 11:35 PM |
Alert | | i personally find that religion(s) came about to explain the.. (at the time)... "unexplainable"...as science came along and answered some of our questions....people drifted away from organized religion more and more....not to mention scandals helping that along the way....however i believe that organized today is the largest money making scam in america...i think the church needs to pay taxes just like everyone else.....until they start riding up in old cars....wearing old clothes.....without rolex watches on...and have the money to pay out... what was it 660 million? from sexual abuse scandals on a whim...i will continue to believe that organized religion is just out for peoples money using the fear of the unknown to get the $$$$ | |
*formerly known as inyrfce2*
Senior Member
Posts: 797
Joined: Dec 2006 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 3:38 AM |
Alert | Posted By rex on 07/21/2007 8:11 PM
Is it selfish to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? If the only reason you practice those words from the Bible is so that you can go to Heaven, isn't that also selfish?
Jason, are you selfish, too?
Are my if-then statements just a bunch of fuzzy logic?
Posted By rex on 07/21/2007 8:07 PM
You're absolutely right, Jason. What a selfish jerk I've been by helping strangers change their flat tire. Man, what a waste of time. And all that money I turned down. I could have invested it in Google stock then cashed out when it reached $500 per share.
From now on, if anyone is broken down by the side of the road, don't expect me to stop and help! I don't want to be known as selfish. Thanks Jason. :-)
I was asking if you were doing it for selfish reasons. I wasn't sure, so I asked. Doing unto others as you would have them to do isn't selfish, but can be used like that. I take it as a statement that reminds people that their actions should always be viewed in light of how they would impact someone else. Some people view it as a means of acting better simply so that society doesn't take actions against them.
Am I selfish? At times, yes. At times even the best people are selfish. But I try to look back and use each instance as a learning experience to avoid being selfish in the future. If I do something nice for someone it almost never (since I can't say for 100% never) is so that person or "karma" will be nice to me.
Don't stop helping people, I just don't think people should help people because they might get something in the future. "Pay it forward" as it were, never expecting anything in return.
I hope my 3AM rambling makes some sense.
PS: I know that if I put a bumper sticker on my car that said "Jason" I'd get run off the road.   | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 3:42 AM |
Alert | Posted By demonica on 07/17/2007 11:14 AM
ROFLMFAO, sweetie, all these things on your list predate christianity. by a whole lot. christianity is a 2000 year old religion. period. end of story. all those things on your list are equally sacred to a pagan. also, how can you call the bible proof of anything? it was written by men. specifically men. misogynistic men at that! my personal opinion is that is was written by 6 guys who got tired of playing poker and needed something new to do on wednesday nights. no proof there!
You don't know much about the Bible do you? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | leefamily
Posts:0
| | 07/22/2007 9:03 AM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 07/21/2007 2:48 PM Posted By rex on 07/21/2007 2:11 PM
EEE, if there is no religion in my life, then why did I help someone change a tire by the side of the road (on more than one occasion)? What EEE is getting at is not that you couldn't do something like that but why would you do something like that? Why is it the right thing to do? "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." Is in general a good rule. But what if you're someone who doesn't care about a little embezzlement if it furthers you?
just because you're not a christian does not mean you aren't a kind, generous, helpful person. | | | |
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| | leefamily
Posts:0
| | 07/22/2007 9:29 AM |
Alert | Posted By anewman on 07/21/2007 11:15 AM Posted By leefamily on 07/18/2007 10:29 AM Posted By anewman on 07/17/2007 6:46 PM Posted By Trogdor! on 07/17/2007 5:42 PM Posted By leefamily on 07/17/2007 4:42 PM
a lot of people are. I'm critical of a lot of religions myself. Not to say that I haven't studied different religions because I do find them fascinating. I think it's really interesting that most religions are developed by a 'higher power'
What do you mean by "developed by a higher power"? Do you mean focused on a higher power? I find it interesting that with so many different kinds of religions, members of each respective religion absolutely think... believe that theirs is the correct one. Some share a common god (Yahweh, Allah, God), others worship a completely different god or gods. If there was some sort of greater truth, then when is there such a discrepancy in interpreting it? Perhaps the variations are better explained by the moral and intellectual zeitgeist (hence, god being created by man). I agree with this and have studied several religions and have had the honor to discuss religion with people of authority in many different religions. Some normal and traditional and some not. I will not bash any religion but find it quite ironic if someone of one religion is critical or bashing another. Who are you to judge anyone else? In doing so you are going directly against the core values of your own religion- this applies to all religions!! If you are happy with your coarse than leave it at that- do not judge or push on others. All religions have their faults- their extremists- but if you really study them and break them down to the core values of how you should live your life they are very similar. They all believe in some higher power and how do you know "your" god did not visit others- visit multiple times- in multiple forms?? Enlighten yourself so you may shed light for others!! I do not judge others. I have no power whatsoever to do so. I am critical of other religions because the ones that I have taken an interest in studying don't follow along with what I believe and interpret from the teachings of Christ. I have not studied all religions and probably won't. If you're Budhist, Mormon, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran - and you feel at peace with your God, then great by me. It is not up to me to judge you. That is a job for the Man upstairs not me! I did not BASH any religion at all. Please be careful when you put words in other people's mouths. Not once did I say Mormons are wrong and going to hell. You have no idea what my feelings are on any ohter religion than my own. I did not put any words in your mouth or accuse you of anything. I was simply stating there are people in every religion that feel their's is the only right one. I did not mention any particular religions either - as you have. I am not critical of other religions as you cleary state you are. If you believe another religion is wrong or false aren't you judging?? To me it does not matter at all what religion you follow but what type of person you are. How well do you live up to the core values and morals of life. It will be quite humorous to me if all the religions that believe in a heaven or higher place end up in the "same" place. Some of the most honrable people I have ever met have had no affiliation with a religion. They had their own unique relationship with a higher power.
My apologies - I used "Mormon" as an example. | | | |
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| | demonica
Posts:850
| | 07/22/2007 12:58 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 07/22/2007 3:42 AM Posted By demonica on 07/17/2007 11:14 AM
ROFLMFAO, sweetie, all these things on your list predate christianity. by a whole lot. christianity is a 2000 year old religion. period. end of story. all those things on your list are equally sacred to a pagan. also, how can you call the bible proof of anything? it was written by men. specifically men. misogynistic men at that! my personal opinion is that is was written by 6 guys who got tired of playing poker and needed something new to do on wednesday nights. no proof there! You don't know much about the Bible do you?
actually, no, i don't. never wanted to or needed to. what did i say that was untrue (up to the point where i stated that the rest was my opinion, that is?)
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 1:19 PM |
Alert | Posted By leefamily on 07/22/2007 9:03 AM Posted By Jason on 07/21/2007 2:48 PM Posted By rex on 07/21/2007 2:11 PM
EEE, if there is no religion in my life, then why did I help someone change a tire by the side of the road (on more than one occasion)? What EEE is getting at is not that you couldn't do something like that but why would you do something like that? Why is it the right thing to do? "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." Is in general a good rule. But what if you're someone who doesn't care about a little embezzlement if it furthers you? just because you're not a christian does not mean you aren't a kind, generous, helpful person.
I didn't say that they couldn't, did I? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 1:19 PM |
Alert | Posted By demonica on 07/22/2007 12:58 PM Posted By Jason on 07/22/2007 3:42 AM Posted By demonica on 07/17/2007 11:14 AM
ROFLMFAO, sweetie, all these things on your list predate christianity. by a whole lot. christianity is a 2000 year old religion. period. end of story. all those things on your list are equally sacred to a pagan. also, how can you call the bible proof of anything? it was written by men. specifically men. misogynistic men at that! my personal opinion is that is was written by 6 guys who got tired of playing poker and needed something new to do on wednesday nights. no proof there! You don't know much about the Bible do you? actually, no, i don't. never wanted to or needed to. what did i say that was untrue (up to the point where i stated that the rest was my opinion, that is?)
All of it. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | leefamily
Posts:0
| | 07/22/2007 1:31 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 07/22/2007 1:19 PM Posted By leefamily on 07/22/2007 9:03 AM Posted By Jason on 07/21/2007 2:48 PM Posted By rex on 07/21/2007 2:11 PM
EEE, if there is no religion in my life, then why did I help someone change a tire by the side of the road (on more than one occasion)? What EEE is getting at is not that you couldn't do something like that but why would you do something like that? Why is it the right thing to do? "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." Is in general a good rule. But what if you're someone who doesn't care about a little embezzlement if it furthers you? just because you're not a christian does not mean you aren't a kind, generous, helpful person. I didn't say that they couldn't, did I?
No. I think it was in response to Rex? asking why if he has no relgion, why does he do good deeds?
Maybe it was the way you are raised, perhaps with a christian background. who knows. | | | |
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| | demonica
Posts:850
| | 07/22/2007 1:35 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 07/22/2007 1:19 PM Posted By demonica on 07/22/2007 12:58 PM Posted By Jason on 07/22/2007 3:42 AM Posted By demonica on 07/17/2007 11:14 AM
ROFLMFAO, sweetie, all these things on your list predate christianity. by a whole lot. christianity is a 2000 year old religion. period. end of story. all those things on your list are equally sacred to a pagan. also, how can you call the bible proof of anything? it was written by men. specifically men. misogynistic men at that! my personal opinion is that is was written by 6 guys who got tired of playing poker and needed something new to do on wednesday nights. no proof there! You don't know much about the Bible do you? actually, no, i don't. never wanted to or needed to. what did i say that was untrue (up to the point where i stated that the rest was my opinion, that is?) All of it.
the bible was written by men...this is false how? show me a book of the new testament that was written by a woman.
as far as my statement that these men were misogynistic, well that is my opinion. it is also the opinion of biblical scholars (yup, female ones) i have seen interviewed. perhaps you and i disagree on what constitutes misogyny, but i think as a woman, i by definition have a better handle on it than you do.
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| | rattle2
Posts:131
| | 07/22/2007 1:38 PM |
Alert | | It's funny how someone would assume that you hate Christians because you ask a question or question the way they celebrate God. Depending on the method of your celebration there are Christians themselves hating other Christians if questions are an indicator of hate. Why do you think there are so many different denominations within the Christian community? They question the way that God/Jesus is celebrated. | |
Sometimes we just make life to difficult.
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 1:45 PM |
Alert | Posted By demonica on 07/22/2007 1:35 PM
the bible was written by men...this is false how? show me a book of the new testament that was written by a woman.
I'm not disputing that...
as far as my statement that these men were misogynistic, well that is my opinion. it is also the opinion of biblical scholars (yup, female ones) i have seen interviewed. perhaps you and i disagree on what constitutes misogyny, but i think as a woman, i by definition have a better handle on it than you do.
You may have a better handle on that, but you certainly can't have an informed opinion on a book you haven't read. The Bible certainly is not misogynistic. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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