ChimneyDuck
Posts:230
 | | 10/31/2007 6:55 AM |
 Alert | I think you answered your own question Jason. When people medically "die" most of the time they are talking about the heart not beating. Resuming the heart beating again brings the person back to life. Failure to do this quickly results in brain damage. To determine brain death, they need expensive equipment to determine that.
If people have souls, what happens to it when they have brain damage? Do people with Alzheimers just slowly go to heaven leaving their bodies behind? And if the latter is true, in late stage Alzheimers when they can't even swallow or control their bowel movements would it be ok to use euthanasia since their soul has already moved on? | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/31/2007 10:35 AM |
Alert | I'm referring to the few documented cases where someone has been revived long after the point that they would be considered brain dead. In those cases, how would the person continue living? There would be irreparable loss of state in the brain, so wouldn't some of "you" be lost? Unless there is a separate "you", brain damage like that would permanently damage "you". If there isn't a "you" separate from your brain, how do you explain spontaneous recovery from traumatic brain injury?
There's a lot that we don't know about how the brain works. It is definitely premature at this point to say that there absolutely is no soul and that the brain is absolutely the only container for "you".
I'm not really sure how to answer the Alzheimer's question. I'm not suggesting that the soul slowly migrates towards heaven, but if the soul is "you" and the brain and soul work together to get your body to accomplish what you "want" it to do, then if the brain is not working correctly, that wouldn't necessarily mean that the soul isn't still attached, just that the brain is not functioning correctly. It's kind of like your car (to use a poor analogy): If the transmission stops working correctly, your car's computer will do its best to control the engine to prevent further damage to the transmission. That doesn't mean it will be successful, but failure to succeed doesn't mean that the computer's code wasn't doing all it could to prevent transmission damage.
Does that make sense? | |
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ChimneyDuck
Posts:230
| | 10/31/2007 1:06 PM |
Alert | You're mistaken Jason. There has not been one documented recovery of a brain dead patient.
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Holy Roller
Posts:25
| | 10/31/2007 1:22 PM |
Alert | Genesis 3:19
you will return to the ground; for out of it were you taken: for you are dust, and unto dust you shall return.
As for your soul, the bible says;
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 
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janedo
Posts:75
| | 10/31/2007 5:22 PM |
Alert | Posted By ilovesubway on 10/29/2007 12:18 PM
A "soul" is a made up concept. When I die I will be worm food. I didn't exist before I was born and I will cease to exist when I die.
And Jason, death is not an instantaneous event. It is a process.
I wish I could remember more information about it, but there was a doctor who placed his dying patients on scales in order to weigh them at the exact moment of death. I cannot remember when this took place or his name. He found there was a slightly lower weight measured after death that he claims is the soul. Some say his study was not accurate. But it does show that it is an area of interest being looked into. Has anyone else heard of this that can remember more information? | | | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/31/2007 7:30 PM |
Alert | Posted By ChimneyDuck on 10/31/2007 1:06 PM
You're mistaken Jason. There has not been one documented recovery of a brain dead patient.
Look up persistent vegetative state (which involves severe brain injury) and recovery from PVS. | |
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ChimneyDuck
Posts:230
| | 10/31/2007 10:06 PM |
Alert | | PVS is not brain death and the few people that recover from PVS aren't the healthiest mentally. | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/31/2007 11:10 PM |
Alert | OK, mix up in terminology. 
Still, you have to admit, that if the brain is the only container for "you" and it is severely damaged, how can a normal you return (and there are documented cases of that happening)? | |
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JasonY
Posts:2589
| | 11/01/2007 8:10 AM |
Alert | | Wasn't their some weird study done a long time ago and it was noticed that the human body weighed slightly less right after death? Like supposedly it was the soul or something? Maybe I am crazy. | |
"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black | |
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CODEBLEU
Posts:202
| | 11/03/2007 10:54 PM |
Alert | So much discussion about dying leads me to conclude that we are not really afraid of death but only anxious about the after life. As we on earth have anxieties about acceptance with one another and the need to belong we have that same mind set about eternal life which mistakenly has us believing that we are afraid to die.
Once we accept that everlasting life in Heaven with God is only achieved by living the word of God on Earth will we then be comfortable with death on Earth as we physically know it. So, just as we prepare for our next day at work, our next presentation or school day, so too must we prepare for our meeting with Jesus, God our Father.
When we are truly prepared then there will be no need to ask questions. The only downside for our physical existence will be not having purchased enough life insurance for loved ones left behind. Back to my Cigar and Cognac! | | | |
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drummer72
Posts:3626
| | 11/04/2007 8:03 PM |
Alert | | We'll first off, you crap your pants and pee all over yourself. The rest is still a mystery to be explored. | |
"Everything for everyone and nothing for ourselves" | |
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drummer72
Posts:3626
| | 11/04/2007 8:05 PM |
Alert | Posted By JasonY on 11/01/2007 8:10 AM
Wasn't their some weird study done a long time ago and it was noticed that the human body weighed slightly less right after death? Like supposedly it was the soul or something? Maybe I am crazy.
If I can only figure a way, to market that as a new weight loss plan?? | |
"Everything for everyone and nothing for ourselves" | |
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joe_2007
Posts:83
| | 11/05/2007 12:44 PM |
Alert | Posted By ChimneyDuck on 10/31/2007 1:06 PM
You're mistaken Jason. There has not been one documented recovery of a brain dead patient.
This doctor has several cases.
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2007/s07070094.htm
This particular patient was down for 40 minutes with no heart beat. | | | |
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ChimneyDuck
Posts:230
| | 11/05/2007 1:09 PM |
Alert | Funny thing is Joe, even Dr Crandall in that case said that there was no brain damage. They said that they worked on him for 40 minutes. That means that they were manually pumping blood to his brain, hence the no brain damage thing. I imagine that they gave up on him because his heart wouldn't start. I doubt that they had the 24 hours necessary to diagnose brain death in those 40 minutes.
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joe_2007
Posts:83
| | 11/05/2007 1:31 PM |
Alert | Posted By ChimneyDuck on 10/31/2007 1:06 PM
You're mistaken Jason. There has not been one documented recovery of a brain dead patient.
Sorry I should have clarified this. Jesus and Lazarus are two historically documented cases of brain-dead people coming back to life. Or do you think that the cold ground slowed their metabolisms enough to keep their brains alive for three days? Then they just happened to spontaneously revive, get up, and walk out? Of course Lazarus had an external cause. Jesus told him to get up! | | | |
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joe_2007
Posts:83
| | 11/05/2007 1:31 PM |
Alert | Double post. | | | |
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Bionicbunny
Posts:594
| | 11/05/2007 2:47 PM |
Alert | Posted By ilovesubway on 10/29/2007 12:18 PM
A "soul" is a made up concept. When I die I will be worm food. I didn't exist before I was born and I will cease to exist when I die.
So when you are born you just came up out of nothing? Your ability to have so many feelings and thoughts, that is just by chance? | | | |
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ChimneyDuck
Posts:230
| | 11/06/2007 7:06 AM |
Alert | Joe, you have a different idea of historical than I do.
Bionic, I came from my parents, and religion had nothing whatsoever to do with it, other than they were catholic and their version of birth control was the "timing" method. | |
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Brit
Posts:8
| | 11/06/2007 3:01 PM |
Alert | | You find out that God only exists in your wish full mind and when the curtains go down thats it game over. | | | |
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JasonY
Posts:2589
| | 11/07/2007 7:57 AM |
Alert | | Jesus loves you........... | |
"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black | |
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