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| | Author | Messages | |
Jason
Posts:3378
 | | 10/22/2007 11:10 AM |
 Alert | Posted By Copa Conscious on 10/22/2007 11:02 AM
Standards are also relative.
Also
History is written by the victors.
Got any more useless cliches? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | agit8d
Posts:209
| | 10/22/2007 11:12 AM |
Alert | Posted By Veritas on 10/22/2007 7:59 AM Posted By Copa Conscious on 10/22/2007 6:39 AM Posted By Veritas on 10/21/2007 8:02 PM
While this may have very little to do with anything, and though it is certainly not aimed at anyone in particular, I am inspired to say, "it takes a village to raise an idiot". And it takes a "religion" to get everyone to 'drink the kool-aid'. Atheism is a religion too. Hitler made and distributed lots of kool-aid. Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. ... they're all the same and they killed way more people since the dawn of time than all of the other religions combined. Go back to your village. 
GOD has killed more himself than any other religion. | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 10/22/2007 11:13 AM |
Alert | Posted By agit8d on 10/22/2007 11:12 AM Posted By Veritas on 10/22/2007 7:59 AM Posted By Copa Conscious on 10/22/2007 6:39 AM Posted By Veritas on 10/21/2007 8:02 PM
While this may have very little to do with anything, and though it is certainly not aimed at anyone in particular, I am inspired to say, "it takes a village to raise an idiot". And it takes a "religion" to get everyone to 'drink the kool-aid'. Atheism is a religion too. Hitler made and distributed lots of kool-aid. Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. ... they're all the same and they killed way more people since the dawn of time than all of the other religions combined. Go back to your village. GOD has killed more himself than any other religion.
OK ... give us some examples and a body count. | | | |
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| | Copa Conscious
Posts:379
| | 10/22/2007 11:14 AM |
Alert | rough and ready
the American way
share and share alike
Feel like a blind dog in a meat house
the game plan
take a leaf out of your book
all wool and a yard wide
out of the frying pan into the fire
you will be sorry
pack it in
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| | Copa Conscious
Posts:379
| | 10/22/2007 11:15 AM |
Alert | Funny as a fart in church.
rule the roose
be of good cheer
thin edge of the wedge
Tienes nalgas de mejoral
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye
old fuddy-duddy
stalking horse
A broken record
withering glance | | | |
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| | Copa Conscious
Posts:379
| | 10/22/2007 11:19 AM |
Alert | * Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.
* Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)
* Joshua:
o Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.
o Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."
o Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]
o TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.
* Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.
* Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River.
* Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon
* Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.
* 1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.
* David:
o 2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.
o 2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.
o 2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.
* 1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.
* 2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.
* 2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.
* 2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans
* TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Bible. The battle of 2_Chron_13 is so much larger than all the others that we probably should double it. | | | |
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|  | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 10/22/2007 11:31 AM |
Alert | Posted By Copa Conscious on 10/22/2007 11:19 AM
* Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.
* Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)
* Joshua:
o Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.
o Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."
o Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]
o TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.
* Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.
* Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River.
* Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon
* Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.
* 1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.
* David:
o 2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.
o 2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.
o 2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.
* 1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.
* 2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.
* 2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.
* 2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans
* TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Bible. The battle of 2_Chron_13 is so much larger than all the others that we probably should double it.
OK ... nice work. Now add to that the roughly 1 million killed in the Crusades. Add another million for good measure and triple the sum. Heck, let's just say 10 million!
A low estimate of Stalin's killing is about 30 million. If we add Hitler, Pol Pot and others of that ilk to the list, it seems that atheism is behind more killing than religion or god.
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| | Copa Conscious
Posts:379
| | 10/22/2007 11:58 AM |
Alert | No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.
Whether theism can be slightly more culpable than atheism is a matter of dispute. Not being any belief at all, atheism can't motivate anyone in any direction to do anything. Theism is a belief, however, so at least the potential for some sort of motivation in some direction exists. It's been argued, for example, that monotheism is inherently more prone to violence because of the way it tends to be exclusivist — unlike polytheism, which tends to be more tolerant of cultural and religious differences. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/22/2007 12:42 PM |
Alert | Since when does God go by the name Moses, Joshua, etc? Try again.
My point about atheism is correct, since it has multiple interpretations, like theism. One such is the belief that theism is absurd and theists must be wiped out. These people killed in the name of atheism. If you're going to include people not following their religion in the numbers that killed for religion, then I'm going to include anyone who said they were an atheist in the numbers of atheists that killed for atheism. Fair is fair. 
Hint: Atheism is a belief that something beyond man's current ability to detect doesn't exist. If I tell you a 10 millionth dimension absolutely doesn't exist, that's a belief, because I have no way of proving it. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | ChimneyDuck
Posts:191
| | 10/22/2007 12:53 PM |
Alert | How about the flood?
And if God orders the killings, isn't that the same as God doing the killing?
I mean, how many people did Stalin personally kill? | |
http://www.maricopabikeclub.com - Join us for a bicycle ride. | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 10/22/2007 1:38 PM |
Alert | Posted By Copa Conscious on 10/22/2007 11:58 AM
No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.
Any "ism" is a philosophy. IN the case of Atheism, it is the denial that God exists; in fact, it is an absolute statement regarding non-existence and excludes all views to the contrary. To compare a belief with a property like "tallness" is a category error which means the words that you pieced together do not even qualify as a statement; in other words, it's so bad that it's "not even wrong".
Posted By Copa Conscious on 10/22/2007 11:58 AM
Whether theism can be slightly more culpable than atheism is a matter of dispute. Not being any belief at all, atheism can't motivate anyone in any direction to do anything.
No belief at all = something like agnosticism. Atheism is a strong and definite statement that there is no god. It appears that you do not even know what you disbelieve.
Posted By Copa Conscious on 10/22/2007 11:58 AM
Theism is a belief, however, so at least the potential for some sort of motivation in some direction exists. It's been argued, for example, that monotheism is inherently more prone to violence because of the way it tends to be exclusivist — unlike polytheism, which tends to be more tolerant of cultural and religious differences.
EVERY belief system is "exclusivist" ... EVERY last one. Some appear/claim to not be, but in the end they exclude those who disagree ... even the Bahai faith is this way. But this is irrelevant to the point at hand which you keep skirting.
Polytheism is more tolerant? Give me the name of a polytheism that is more tolerant. The polytheisms that God wiped out in the OT had some detestable practices like child sacrifice, among other things. Do you think that people who murder children in their polytheistic worship deserve to live? That's one thing that the website where you got your list of "biblical atrocities" from does not explain. | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 10/22/2007 1:43 PM |
Alert | Posted By ChimneyDuck on 10/22/2007 12:53 PM
How about the flood?
And if God orders the killings, isn't that the same as God doing the killing?
I mean, how many people did Stalin personally kill?
Read closely and you'll find that the Earth was so filled with violence that God did indeed kill everyone but Noah and his family. Noah preached for 120 years inviting everyone to repent. At the time, everyone was still in Mesopotamia, so they didn't have to go very far to hear the sermon.
You point about who ordered the killings does not make any sense, for at least two reasons.
1. If God does something, it is automatically OK whether or not any puny humans understand Your ways. That's one of the nice things about being God.
2. It doesn't change the fact that there is a "mind" behind/responsible for the killing. Theistic or Atheistic is not the point, aside from the fact that one's philosophy drives one's actions. | | | |
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| | JasonY
Posts:1974
| | 10/22/2007 1:57 PM |
Alert | | ........put the fire out? Install a hut sprinkler system? Refuse to believe your hut is on fire, and say that there is no fire? | |
"Your village called.........they're missing their idiot" | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/22/2007 10:10 PM |
Alert | Posted By ChimneyDuck on 10/22/2007 12:53 PM
How about the flood?
Defendants were guilty of lawlessness. And YET, all defendants were warned of their judgment and given the opportunity to escape it. In a way, you could say they committed suicide. Next... | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | rex
Posts:294
| | 10/23/2007 6:59 PM |
Alert |
The original post was a nice post. Thanks Java Lover. :-) | | | |
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| | Java Lover
Posts:0
| | 10/24/2007 5:44 AM |
Alert | Posted By rex on 10/23/2007 6:59 PM
The original post was a nice post. Thanks Java Lover. :-)
You are welcome Rex. | | | |
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| | Bionicbunny
Posts:524
| | | tajh
Posts:32
| | 10/24/2007 11:42 AM |
Alert | Posted By Java Lover on 10/24/2007 5:44 AM Posted By rex on 10/23/2007 6:59 PM
The original post was a nice post. Thanks Java Lover. :-) You are welcome Rex.
I thought so too. And, thanks because it seems as though it were a message meant just for me (not being selfish, but going through a lot right now) | |
Whether your riches greater than mine,
your mind wiser than mine;
you are not above nor below
I am your neighbor, I am equal.
-Me | |
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| | ChimneyDuck
Posts:191
| | 10/24/2007 9:44 PM |
Alert | Veritas, you scare me.
Just because a god does something does not automatically make it ok. I have the knowledge of good and evil. I can apply this knowledge and make a decision on what is good and what is bad. | |
http://www.maricopabikeclub.com - Join us for a bicycle ride. | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/24/2007 9:58 PM |
Alert | Just because a god does something does not automatically make it ok. I have the knowledge of good and evil. I can apply this knowledge and make a decision on what is good and what is bad.
Something that is perfect, by definition, cannot make a wrong decision. That's where Veritas is coming from. Veritas' attitude doesn't scare me, it's the people that can't state with any authority why their morals are the way they are and think they're some how superior than a perfect unchanging being. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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