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| | Author | Messages | |
Trogdor!
Posts:294
 | | 10/03/2007 4:08 PM |
 Alert | GilaGuy,
You are certainly free to have that belief. Several of my friends feel the same way. But they don't fly the victim flag every time some Jehovah's Witness shows up at the door. They handle it calmly and rationally, and go about their business. You two would probably be better served handling things in that fashion, and leaving your affront radar behind.
Yes, and I always DO handle things calmly and rationally. The whole purpose of this thread was to say, "These people are annoying. Who agrees with me?" or "If you are one of these people, why do you do it?" Was that so hard to understand, or am I being like "smarter-than-thou" Jason and need to spell things out more clearly?
Jason,
Basically you're no better than the people your husband is criticizing.
Hey! Piss off! | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/03/2007 4:10 PM |
Alert | Then again, the problem is your inability to write clearly.
That's reflected in his insulting signature graphic too. He says he's an agnostic but flies the atheist banner... | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | JasonY
Posts:1973
| | 10/03/2007 4:11 PM |
Alert | | Whoa, let's all just chill. Trogdor doesn't want anyone praying for him, no big deal. | |
"Your village called.........they're missing their idiot" | |
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| | Trogdor!
Posts:294
| | 10/03/2007 4:18 PM |
Alert | Jason,
Your don't have a central authority per se, but you have people like Dawkins.
And when did Dawkins ever tell atheists to go door-to-door, or to even recruit?
What's worse is that you took offense at something that wasn't directed solely at you. It wasn't like someone knocked on the door, but more like someone on a street corner and you happened to hear them as you passed by.
Have you never stood up for someone that you thought was being insulted?
GilaGuy,
Then again, the problem is your inability to write clearly. You cannot make one statement and then go down three words and attempt to make a different statement, it makes no sense.
So no conversational writing on this forum, is that it? So whatever I type is automatically set in stone and cannot be clarified later?
why would you not expect people to recognize that and cite it later on?
Really? I think what I said was perfectly clear. You act as if I'm contradicting myself. I've made any clarifications that where needed. If you still don't understand, then that's your problem. | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 10/03/2007 4:20 PM |
Alert | Posted By Trogdor! on 10/03/2007 4:08 PM
Yes, and I always DO handle things calmly and rationally. The whole purpose of this thread was to say, "These people are annoying. Who agrees with me?" or "If you are one of these people, why do you do it?" Was that so hard to understand, or am I being like "smarter-than-thou" Jason and need to spell things out more clearly?
That's good to hear. Because judging from this thread, it would appear that you care very deeply about this subject, and that you take great personal offense when someone offers to pray for you. Which doesn't seem entirely rational to me, though it's a belief to which you're entitled.
So long as you grant others the right to believe what they want to believe...which I'm not sure you're so keen on. | | | |
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| | Trogdor!
Posts:294
| | 10/03/2007 4:20 PM |
Alert | That's reflected in his insulting signature graphic too. He says he's an agnostic but flies the atheist banner...
And I've also said in a previous thread that "despite the signature, I'm agnostic", or did you not bother to take note of that? Perhaps I should do a little Photoshopping and change "atheist" to "agnostic" to make you happy. | |
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|  | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/03/2007 4:22 PM |
Alert | Posted By Trogdor! on 10/03/2007 4:20 PM That's reflected in his insulting signature graphic too. He says he's an agnostic but flies the atheist banner... And I've also said in a previous thread that "despite the signature, I'm agnostic", or did you not bother to take note of that? Perhaps I should do a little Photoshopping and change "atheist" to "agnostic" to make you happy.
Obviously I took note of that, it says so in the post you quoted. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Holy Roller
Posts:24
| | 10/03/2007 4:22 PM |
Alert | Posted By Trogdor! on 10/02/2007 5:22 PM Seriously... why? Especially to those of us that just do NOT want to hear it. It's fine to have a well thought out discussion, but when you turn on that "holier-than-thou" attitude, it's just down right annoying! The original question was why do you preach? I just wanted say: 1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. God has chosen preaching as a method for spreading His word, not to show how holy we are. Gods word will speak for its self. Some will hear, some will not, however we still need to preach His word. One last thing, if you plant a garden some seeds will grow and some will fall on hard ground and blow away. Exactly the same with Gods word.  | | | |
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| | Trogdor!
Posts:294
| | 10/03/2007 4:26 PM |
Alert | So long as you grant others the right to believe what they want to believe...which I'm not sure you're so keen on.
What the heck?!?! Seriously?!?! I'm not sure how you've managed to twist things around like you have, but you're way off base there!
Leefamily obviously understood the point of my thread:
I am a Christian, and sure I may preach to other people but honestly, it's only on here. lol. I think I understand though. I have been told by the LDS faith that they will pray for me and my loved ones once we pass on and it reallly ticked me off.
To which I agreed 4 posts later:
Posted By Trogdor! on 10/03/2007 1:34 PM Posted By leefamily on 10/03/2007 1:25 PM
I have been told by the LDS faith that they will pray for me and my loved ones once we pass on and it reallly ticked me off. EXACTLY! 
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| | Trogdor!
Posts:294
| | 10/03/2007 4:34 PM |
Alert | Jason,
Obviously I took note of that, it says so in the post you quoted.
Apparently it's not so obvious if you're going to hold it against me that the pic says "atheist instead of "agnostic".
That's reflected in his insulting signature graphic too. He says he's an agnostic but flies the atheist banner...
Now who's doing the misrepresenting?
Holy Roller,
God has chosen preaching as a method for spreading His word, not to show how holy we are. Gods word will speak for its self. Some will hear, some will not, however we still need to preach His word.
I understand the purpose of preaching (I was raised Catholic and was taught that lesson). The problem actually is that some people do it to "show how holy" they are. | |
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| | Grilladawg
Posts:219
| | 10/03/2007 4:42 PM |
Alert | I don't see what's the big deal about anything. From any side you look at it. Looking back, I think the only thing that really annoyed me was when my "now" parents in law, were pressuring my wife and I to do whatever they wanted, a certain date for a wedding, a certain specific date to have their grand children.....Now that was annoying. To say the least, that didn't work out for them, as it made my wife and I further cross the bridge away from them....almost burning it down and thus our relations with her family. Learning to forgive, we did eventually a year later, but they learned their lesson about being very controlling and not telling us how to run our lives.
I have had people and strangers in the past quote the prayer line for me or my wife. Granted we were not agnostic or atheists, we found it as a mutual way of respect, it was almost "cool" that a bunch of strangers were saying in a good way..."we care and we hope for the best." Not as a pity plea for us. I, to this day find it very heart-warming that there are people who do say this or want the best outcome for other strangers.
I knew a very angry atheist guy from California, the guy hated religion...especially Christianity and he was one of those radical atheists who were no better than the bible thumpers he preached against. Well, there was a topic we were talking about at work one day regarding the sudden death of a young woman who left behind two young children. When at the funeral, the kids were told that she was in a better place...a much better place, as she had been suffering from consistant brain seizures and was wheel-chair bounded, her left side of her body was paralyzed. She suffered a lot. I was just thinking about that angry atheist guy from California, and what he would've done or said at the funeral, or to the kids......
That there is no god? That his mom is worm food? Would he lash out and preach..."what is wrong with you people!"
My sentiments tell me, he would've not done this, and would've kept his ideas to himself in a matter of respect. And why is this......if he is so devout into proving religion is wrong?
What would make someone not touch this moral ground of their beliefs? Honestly, I wouldn't think he would've done anything but try to comfort the loved ones and give support, even though there is this talk about someone being in heaven, a god, and so fourth.
Makes you think a little | | | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 10/03/2007 4:43 PM |
Alert | Posted By Trogdor! on 10/03/2007 4:26 PM So long as you grant others the right to believe what they want to believe...which I'm not sure you're so keen on. What the heck?!?! Seriously?!?! I'm not sure how you've managed to twist things around like you have, but you're way off base there!
Am I? So it is not the viewpoint of your household that theism is a delusional offense?
While I am pleased that you could find me capable of twisting things around in such an allegedly fantastic fashion, all that has been done here is a line-by-line reading of that which you have posted. I can understand that sometimes it is hard to detect sarcasm or irony in these posts, but the statements you've made are fairly well black-and-white. You're either okay with the belief system of others or you aren't. And in this case, you've made yourself abundantly clear that you expect tolerance and understanding towards your position from theists, while offering them precious little in return. | | | |
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| | Trogdor!
Posts:294
| | 10/03/2007 4:58 PM |
Alert | Am I? So it is not the viewpoint of your household that theism is a delusional offense?
Pointless, yes; a delusional offense, no.
While I am pleased that you could find me capable of twisting things around in such an allegedly fantastic fashion, all that has been done here is a line-by-line reading of that which you have posted. I can understand that sometimes it is hard to detect sarcasm or irony in these posts, but the statements you've made are fairly well black-and-white.
Leefamily seemed to understand it perfectly well. Didn't the supplied narrative help? or no?
And in this case, you've made yourself abundantly clear that you expect tolerance and understanding towards your position from theists, while offering them precious little in return.
Perhaps I expect tolerance more so from theists because religion is so inherently intolerant. How many lives have been lost in the name of some god? Is that why there's such a push to reproduce (have to keep the numbers up)? /sarcasm
In case you have any doubt about the intolerance, just bring up homosexuality & gay marriage and you'll see just how intolerant people are (in a new thread though). | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 10/03/2007 5:05 PM |
Alert | Posted By Trogdor! on 10/03/2007 4:58 PM Am I? So it is not the viewpoint of your household that theism is a delusional offense? Pointless, yes; a delusional offense, no.
Ahh, I see. So then, you disagree with your wife:
"Maybe because Troggie is my husband.. ?? And I stand by my statement. I think theism, of any type, is delusional and irrational."
Okay, that's fine. Just wanted to pin down exactly what your operating belief is.
Leefamily can think what Leefamily wants. It's good that at least somebody agrees with you, because I personally make no bones about the fact that I find your perspective to be as narrow-minded as you indirectly claim only theists can be.
As far as expecting tolerance goes, you may expect that only to the extend that you are willing to give it back. Since you've tilted at the windmill of those who pray for you with such baseless ferocity, you've proven yourself as one who gives no quarter for those whose beliefs you find unappealing. And with such a viewpoint, you're unlikely to be granted any tolerance in return. Which is unfortunate. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/03/2007 6:26 PM |
Alert | Perhaps I expect tolerance more so from theists because religion is so inherently intolerant. How many lives have been lost in the name of some god? Is that why there's such a push to reproduce (have to keep the numbers up)? /sarcasm
In case you have any doubt about the intolerance, just bring up homosexuality & gay marriage and you'll see just how intolerant people are (in a new thread though).
I'm pretty sure you're intolerant of many things. Intolerance is not inherently wrong like your blurb suggests.
Jason, Basically you're no better than the people your husband is criticizing. Hey! Piss off!
I will not, so long as what I'm saying is true. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 10/03/2007 6:36 PM |
Alert | | We do disagree on certain things. My husband is agnostic and I am an atheist. He studied sociology and IT in college, I studied biology. My biological studies are the basis of my atheism. Troggie is also more tolerant that I am. | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/03/2007 6:38 PM |
Alert | Posted By Trogdor! on 10/03/2007 4:58 PM Am I? So it is not the viewpoint of your household that theism is a delusional offense? Pointless, yes; a delusional offense, no.
So it wasn't you that said this?
Posted By Trogdor! on 09/27/2007 7:28 PM
You're assuming that there is an "Ultimate Mind". She's just saying that she would consider herself crazy if "God" spoke to her. This makes sense, though. Why should the voice of "God" be given special treatment over any of the other voices a person may hear and be considered crazy?
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Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/03/2007 6:40 PM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 10/03/2007 6:36 PM We do disagree on certain things. My husband is agnostic and I am an atheist. He studied sociology and IT in college, I studied biology. My biological studies are the basis of my atheism. Troggie is also more tolerant that I am.
He's also a lot more reasoned in his posts on these subjects. You're argument amounts to "I've got common-sense" which is a non-starter.
I studied biology. My biological studies are the basis of my atheism.
What is it, in your opinion, in biology that contradicts a God? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Trogdor!
Posts:294
| | 10/03/2007 6:57 PM |
Alert | GilaGuy,
I find your perspective to be as narrow-minded as you indirectly claim only theists can be.
I made no such claim that only theists can be narrow-minded. BTW, what exactly is my understanding since you seem to have such a deep understanding of it?
As far as expecting tolerance goes, you may expect that only to the extend that you are willing to give it back. Since you've tilted at the windmill of those who pray for you with such baseless ferocity, you've proven yourself as one who gives no quarter for those whose beliefs you find unappealing. And with such a viewpoint, you're unlikely to be granted any tolerance in return. Which is unfortunate.
You assume too much.
Jason,
I'm pretty sure you're intolerant of many things. Intolerance is not inherently wrong like your blurb suggests.
Enlighten me.
So it wasn't you that said this? Posted By Trogdor! on 09/27/2007 7:28 PM
You're assuming that there is an "Ultimate Mind". She's just saying that she would consider herself crazy if "God" spoke to her. This makes sense, though. Why should the voice of "God" be given special treatment over any of the other voices a person may hear and be considered crazy?
Yes, I said that, but you're misinterpreting. Is theism a delusional offense, no; is hearing the voice of "God", yes. The point of that post was simply that if I heard voices in my head I would be considered crazy... unless that voice is "God". Why the special treatment?
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| | JAG
Posts:477
| | 10/03/2007 6:58 PM |
Alert | I would say that the majority of theists DO NOT CARE what you believe as long as you don't involve them.
Fixed!
- Sports? It must be because every winning team thanks "God". "God" must really like the Saints... except for what he did to New Orleans.
Absolutely. Early congregations did just that to give something for the kids to do. In fact in the early days it was a part of parishes to compete against each other. That moved onto the secular world.
- Education? I can't wait to go to the Creation Museum! I didn't know that people used to ride on dinosaurs!
Are you really serious with this? The whole idea of public education was based on the sole account of Catholic missionaries. Let also not forget that some of the most prominent colleges and high schools are of religious background. Lets also not forget the nuns and monks in Ireland saving all forms of educational disciplines from the angry mobs where were burning down the rest of Europe.
- Medical facilities? Through donations, maybe. Research, not so much. How's that stem cell research coming along?
Do you really realize what would ever happen if every Judeaist hospital or medical facility shut down? I really hope your not serious with that. Tell you what, just stop using every medical procedure that was invented from a religious facility.
Also please show me any cure or even hope of using Embryonic stem cells. Cause there will not be, nor will ever be. Adult stem cells, tons of actual cures and uses.
- Charities? I think Bill Gates has done more.
You would need a link for that.
In the end. Dude where do you get this stuff from? I mean you come up with stuff that you blame others of, that you are doing yourself. Do you not see that? | | | |
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