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| | Author | Messages | |
JillyBean
Posts:375
 | | 09/25/2007 2:24 PM |
 Alert | I am an atheist.. I do not believe in any god. I believe 100% in evolution.
That being said, if I live a "good" life.. If I'm kind to others and help where ever I can and if I try to never hurt anyone.. I still go to hell because I don't believe?
What about a serial killer who rapes and tortures children.. What if, a minute before the lethal injection goes in, he accept Jesus as his personal savior and asks forgiveness.. and he's truly sorry for what he's done. Does he still get to go to heaven?
If so, does this seem fair to you? | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
| | Ace of Spades
Posts:0
| | 09/25/2007 2:29 PM |
Alert | | If you don't believe at all, why would this ever bother you? Sorry. There just has been some weird posts on the board today. | | | |
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| | JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 09/25/2007 2:55 PM |
Alert | | I'm just curious. | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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| | Ace of Spades
Posts:0
| | 09/25/2007 2:57 PM |
Alert | | I've asked the question before, as well. Good luck attempting to get an answer. I'll bet $100, and give you 100 to 1 odds, that nobody is going to answer this question, well. | | | |
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| | Noel
Posts:42
| | 09/25/2007 3:53 PM |
Alert | | JillyBean you have a fun sounding name!!! My wifes name is JILL thats probably why it sounds so FUN!!! You are asking a good question and a common question which usually good questions are asked often so it makes sense you see. The answer to your question isn't from me but from God but I am just hear saying what God already said through his son Jesus. At one point that serial killer you talked about WOULD have gone straight to hell!!! And you and I in our most basic nature would tend to agree with this decision. But you are concerned because you are going to hell to and you don't want to be in the same place as that serial killer right? But thats the thing because you DON'T have to go to hell anymore just because you are living life in complete and total sin. Both you and the serial killer can ask Jesus into your hearts and He can change your destiny and the destiny of a serial killer who TRULY seeks after the Lord. But be warned that God does KNOW the difference between the fit of a child who seek only that his way be granted and the man who realizes that he is truly WRONG! God can see many things that you and I cannot see and cannot be tricked by an insincere heart!!! I notice that you have some tag lines that reference taking care of pets properly. You must love PETS! I think kindness to animals is very much a sign of a Godly heart. But do you think those animals KNOW WHY you care about them? Do you think they understand that you work to feed them and that it is your love that keeps them safe? Much like a dog the humans mind cannot understand the care that God gives. But that does not mean that God is not there caring for you because HE is. He loves you and you don't even know why and I believe that is truly beautiful just like your love for animals. You obviously reflect the love of God even though you don't know why or where HE is and you are confused because your master has seemingly left the house and has left you alone. But much like your pet or pets who think you have abandon them every time you leave to go to work, the truth is something completely different and that truth is beautiful. The Lord cares for you like you care for a good dog and the Lord cares for all people in a similar way that you care for pets that arent even yours. I can see this care because of your tag lines. God has some tag lines TOO!!! LOL!!! It is called the bible and it much like your tag lines describes how to take good care of one another. God wants you to be safe and loved and you refect this in a very beautiful way towards animals. Good for you. But please remember like I told you before that your pets, fish, dogs, cats, hamsters CANNOT understand your love completely even though they are blessed with it each day. And JillyBean you cannot understand God all the time either and neether can I. But I know that He loves you and me and everyone else on the planet. He is beyond our abiliity to fully reason. JillyBean God protects the bad humans like you would protect a bad dog. Lets say you found a Pit Bull tied to a tree and that it was so abused that all it did was bite at you. Lets say that the Pit Bull even bit some kids that walked past and got to close. I bet you would understand that the dogs behavor was not intentional but more from all of the bad things that happened to it and I bet you would stilll want to keep that dog safe and try to teach it to love. And if you could not teach it to love because the world had harmed him too badly I bet you would stilll show compasion when you had to lock the dog up away from people for safety. You would see the dog for its original beauty this is what I bet. God sees even the worst people for the beauty he built into them. And even when people go bad because of abuse they sustaned or a mental problem, God sees the person seperated from the bad actions. God forgives because he know that someone who would harm others is suffering quite terribly even though we do not see that. God will accept anyone who repents because it is God's nature to love. Like it is your nature to love pets who do not understand WHY, God loves you the same!!! | | | |
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| | daisy
Posts:4
| | 09/25/2007 4:09 PM |
Alert | Here is what I believe, since I feel you are sincere in your question.
In the next life, we will be judged according to our works. Because you are a good person, you will go to Heaven, regardless if you believe in Jesus because He loves all of His children. Concerning your question about a rapist and murderer of children who, then, at the last moment of his life accepts Jesus, well, that's a tough one. I think they should go to hell, but I'm not the Judge. So as a person of faith, we have to have the faith that in the next life, everything will be fair and just. As an athiest who strives to live a good life, don't worry about the next life because everything will be fine. I hope that's not too simplistic, but it is what I believe. Thank you | | | |
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|  | MommaToni
Posts:1045
| | 09/25/2007 4:12 PM |
Alert | Amen!
Very well said..... | |
Ppppppbbbbbbssssssssssttttttttt! | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 09/25/2007 4:14 PM |
Alert | because He loves all of His children.
While this is true, the Bible is quite clear that only those that believe in Jesus as their savior will go to heaven.
To answer the original question: All have sinned and all deserve to go to hell. God sent his Son to die on the cross and absolve everyone who believes in Him of sin. I think if you're going to say that we're not special in the universe, then on what authority can you say what is and is not fair qualifications for heaven?
What is "good"? Daisy? JillyBean? Can any human definitively define good? Why is your definition of good right? What about the definition from 100 years ago? What about the definition of terrorists? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Java Lover
Posts:0
| | 09/25/2007 4:20 PM |
Alert | | You do not get into heaven any other way then through Jesus. Some believe that all you have to do is do all the good works in the world and that's enough, but it's not. You must, in your heart, accept Jesus as your personal savior. | | | |
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| | JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 09/25/2007 4:32 PM |
Alert | No-one has answered my question, I asked what YOU believe.
If I go to hell for not believing snd if the serial killer is TRULY remorseful and asks forgiveness from Jesus, does he go to heaven? And if your answer is yes, do YOU think this is fair? | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
|
| | joe_2007
Posts:83
| | 09/25/2007 4:59 PM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 09/25/2007 4:32 PM
No-one has answered my question, I asked what YOU believe.
If I go to hell for not believing snd if the serial killer is TRULY remorseful and asks forgiveness from Jesus, does he go to heaven? And if your answer is yes, do YOU think this is fair?
JillyBean,
The answer is YES. And no it is not 'fair'. Fair would be that we all go to hell because we have all broken God's laws. God is just and righteous. People like to forget that in these types of questions. We broke the law, we go to jail. Isn't the fair.
But God also love's us. He love's us so much that He paid the fine and the jail time for our sins.
Here is an example:
A girl stands in traffic court accused of speeding. The judge asks if she is guilty, and with the evidence being overwhelming, she says 'yes'. The judge hammers the gavel and says she owes the standard $250 fine. Then he does something strange. He gets up and takes off his robe. He walks around to the front of the bench, pulls out his wallet and gives $250 to the court clerk. He paid her fine. You see, he loves her, she is his daughter.
He had to charge the fine because she had broken the law. If he had not, we would say that he is not just. The fine had to be paid for justice to be served. But because of his love for her, he paid the fine.
Now is that fair? What if he paid the fine of every person who came through his court, if they would just ask him to? Now would it be fair?
This is what God has done for all of us. Our crime is sin and our fine is death. But God loves us some much that he paid that fine. Jesus took our death, mine and yours and eveyone else's, on the cross. That fine has been paid for all who will ask.
Do you think that you are better than the murderer? Not in God's site. The Bible says that God sees all sin the same. That is why He gave the same perfect redemptive gift to everyone.
I hope this helps and I hope that you keep asking good questions.
Joe
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| | drummer72
Posts:3143
| | 09/25/2007 6:13 PM |
Alert | | God even forgives atheists and will accept them in his Kingdom. All you have to do is accept... | |
I'd rather live one day as a lion, than my whole life as a lamb. | |
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| | Noel
Posts:42
| | 09/25/2007 6:15 PM |
Alert | I believe that it is both accurate and fair. Its interesting that you use the analogy of a serial killer vs yourself. To be honest I think that the serial killer whos mind obviously does not work as well as yours does should be given even more a chance for redemption. You have a nice orderly mind that is not conflicted with patterns that crave violence and control. You should be thankful. The serial killers mind is broken. He/she is broken just like someone with a physical disability such as MS. The outcome of the deficite is not the same but it still remains that such a human is at a deficit. Even secular studies have proven that synapic activity in the mind of a serial killer is different than you and I. Those individuals are truly SICK just like someone with brain cancer is truly SICK. You hold judgement over one sick person and then give compasion to another sick person. Tell me, is that fair? Thank goodness God is the one who makes all final decisions  | | | |
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| | drummer72
Posts:3143
| | 09/25/2007 6:21 PM |
Alert | | God loves DA BEARS! | |
I'd rather live one day as a lion, than my whole life as a lamb. | |
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| | #1ColtsFan
Posts:45
| | 09/25/2007 6:38 PM |
Alert | | Really? Then why did he bless them with a losing team and a sad, sad Quarterback? hmmm, sounds devilish to me. | | | |
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| | Noel
Posts:42
| | | #1ColtsFan
Posts:45
| | 09/25/2007 6:51 PM |
Alert | MANY a loss. ha ha
3-0 baby! | | | |
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| | drummer72
Posts:3143
| | 09/25/2007 6:57 PM |
Alert | The Devil can also make a team perform well. It's called a pact with the devil...
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I'd rather live one day as a lion, than my whole life as a lamb. | |
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| | EEE
Posts:374
| | 09/25/2007 7:37 PM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 09/25/2007 2:24 PM
I am an atheist.. I do not believe in any god. I believe 100% in evolution.
That being said, if I live a "good" life.. If I'm kind to others and help where ever I can and if I try to never hurt anyone.. I still go to hell because I don't believe?
What about a serial killer who rapes and tortures children.. What if, a minute before the lethal injection goes in, he accept Jesus as his personal savior and asks forgiveness.. and he's truly sorry for what he's done. Does he still get to go to heaven?
If so, does this seem fair to you?
Here is what I believe, since I feel you are sincere in your question.
In the next life, we will be judged according to our works. Because you are a good person, you will go to Heaven, regardless if you believe in Jesus because He loves all of His children. Concerning your question about a rapist and murderer of children who, then, at the last moment of his life accepts Jesus, well, that's a tough one. I think they should go to hell, but I'm not the Judge. So as a person of faith, we have to have the faith that in the next life, everything will be fair and just. As an athiest who strives to live a good life, don't worry about the next life because everything will be fine. I hope that's not too simplistic, but it is what I believe. Thank you
To both of you:
GOD DOESN'T GRADE ON A CURVE!!!
God does not look at Hitler, Bin Laden, Stalin, Nero, Serial Killers, Rapist, etc and say, well so and so wasn't as bad as these people so I will let them in.
We need to stop approaching Salvation through our Human goggles. Since God is the one who determines who is saved, why don't we use what he gave us to see what he says about salvation? It is clear in the Bible. He did give us the Bible for a reason.
If you or anybody else does not place their trust in Jesus as Lord, you will be in hell. Saying magic words "Jesus please come in my heart" is not salvation. Salvation is placing all your faith in Jesus Christ who died and was raised the 3rd day. This will be evident by your life style and how the Holy Spirit changes your life! | |
Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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| | JAG
Posts:477
| | 09/25/2007 8:07 PM |
Alert | Great question!
It's possible of course. I mean what kind of Perfect Judge will put a man in jail for doing something he had not a clue was wrong.
I think St Paul answers your question nicely here.
Romans 2, 12:16
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
I think this one is spot on with my beliefs:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=14870&highlight=gift+faith
Great analogy:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=59661&highlight=Can+a+non-Christian+be+saved
I would take the time to read this article as well:http://www.envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.5/coverstory.html | | | |
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