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| | Author | Messages | |
Ace of Spades
Posts:0
 | | 09/26/2007 8:17 AM |
 Alert | | You are pretty pompous. You won't be gathering any new followers like that. I'm on the fence, but people like you are what push people like me, away. | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 09/26/2007 8:50 AM |
Alert | Well, again, I am sorry ... as stated, my goal was to be bluntly honest, not "attract" with flowery words that do not mean anything. What statements were "pompous" ... I am glad to ammend/revise/explain them.
It is profoundly difficult to respond in a forum like this ... if you use "attractive words" then you are considered foolish and if you are bluntly honest then you are pompous and mean. I am at a loss as to what words I should use to communicate the point. | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 09/26/2007 8:58 AM |
Alert | | Besides "people like me", what are the issues that keep you "on the fence"? | | | |
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| | Ace of Spades
Posts:0
| | 09/26/2007 9:24 AM |
Alert | | People like you. | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 09/26/2007 9:26 AM |
Alert | BeerLeague, with regard to my lengthy response previously posted ... I admit that I could be entirely wrong about your motivations. Perceptions are what they are, but only you and God can truly know whether I am right or wrong. I do not need to be right; however, I do need to be honest ... and that was my intent all along.
If anything that I said in that post is true, I hope that it provokes deep thought for you and others. If anything that I said in that post is false, then I still hope that it provokes deep thought in you & others, AND I apologize for and accept responsibility for the mistake. | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 09/26/2007 9:41 AM |
Alert | Ace, this is what I mean ... no matter what I (or people like me) say, you will not answer the question. If I avoid using the Bible to support my position, you will not answer the question. If I (or people like me) use the Bible, you will not answer the question and call me stupid in the process. No matter what, "people like you" will avoid "people like me" whether or not we play by your rules.
The God Delusion belittles what many of us hold dear ... we enter the discussion in defense of what we believe in. When we do that, we just seem to get nothing but insults, accusations and diversion. When "people like me" wrestle with that, we are deemed cruel and unusual, but if "people like you" wrestle with it, then you are somehow the noble victim. | | | |
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|  | Ace of Spades
Posts:0
| | 09/26/2007 9:44 AM |
Alert | | I've read the book and enjoy it immensly. I'm sorry it offends you, but your attitude just puts me off. Agree to disagree. | | | |
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| | Ace of Spades
Posts:0
| | 09/26/2007 9:50 AM |
Alert | I view you as very condescending. But, I admit, that I may just be overly sensitive. I have had numerous bad experiences with religious people.
Hopefully we can just acquiesce to disagree here. Thank you for your time and effort, but I will just stop reading your opinions now. | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 09/26/2007 9:57 AM |
Alert | Hmmm ... but it IS NOT condescending to tell "people like me", that from an evolutionary viewpoint, we are the equivalent of Neanderthals?
You prove my point and accuse me of being what you are.
I'll still pay attention to your opinions though ... because they are worth the time and effort. Everybody is worth the time and effort. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 09/26/2007 10:02 AM |
Alert | Posted By Ace of Spades on 09/26/2007 9:50 AM
I view you as very condescending. But, I admit, that I may just be overly sensitive. I have had numerous bad experiences with religious people.
I think that says it all: You're reading too much in. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | BeerLeague2
Posts:111
| | 09/26/2007 5:07 PM |
Alert | Veritas! ROFL! I was kidding about the WWJD bracelets and minivans! How funny that you would take that so seriously!
But dude, I did try REALLY REALLY hard to buy all the stuff I was being taught. I DID want to have Jesus in my heart and be a good christian. I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed.
It just didn't work. That's all there is to it.
As far as discussing The God Delusion, don't sweat it. I'm on to further reading. | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 10/15/2007 8:53 AM |
Alert | On page 12 (ch.1), in a quote by Carl Sagan, Dawkins totally mischaracterizes the "religious" view of science. Theists don't think that God suddenly becomes little with the advent of new scientific knowledge ... not even close! The things that we learn about the universe INCREASE our awe of it and the Creator.
This is typical of the viewpoint that guys like Dawkins, Stenger, etc. have with regard to the motivations of theists ... too bad that they really don't understand our position. Disagreeing with some of the interpretations of natural science DOES NOT make God smaller for the theist. I don't even know what to say about this misconception ... I feel like I have to explain that the sun is in the sky which is blue, etc. | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 10/15/2007 9:01 AM |
Alert | With regard to the letters written to Einstein by so-called prominent theists (like on page 17), this is truly unfortunate and I do not disagree with the indictment that Dawkin's levels on them there; however, to think that this is typical of theists is not accurate, certainly not these days. If you read (listen to) guys like Norman Giesler, William Lane Craig, Hugh Ross, and other prominent Christian apologists today, you'll find the antithesis of those unfortunate and now ancient sentiments.
Bottom line, the reader is lulled into a sense that these attitudes are typical, and that just is not true. | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 10/15/2007 9:11 AM |
Alert | | In chapter one, pages 20 through 27, under the subtitle of "Undeserved Respect", Dawkin's conveniently OMITS the fact that Christian religious displays in public are treated like the plague or something. Unless y'all live in a salt mine, you could not have missed the fact that everybody and their dog can have any religious display in public these days EXCEPT the Christians. His premise is incomplete and therefore paints a twisted picture of the sociology that he is promoting as fact. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/15/2007 10:11 AM |
Alert | Posted By Veritas on 10/15/2007 9:11 AM
In chapter one, pages 20 through 27, under the subtitle of "Undeserved Respect", Dawkin's conveniently OMITS the fact that Christian religious displays in public are treated like the plague or something. Unless y'all live in a salt mine, you could not have missed the fact that everybody and their dog can have any religious display in public these days EXCEPT the Christians. His premise is incomplete and therefore paints a twisted picture of the sociology that he is promoting as fact.
And before someone tries to say that doesn't happen, I'm going to bring up the example of the Muslim footbaths. They're being installed in airports, the ACLU has no qualm with them, yet the ACLU has been working overtime to remove Christian displays from other public areas. Double standard? You bet. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | JasonY
Posts:1974
| | 10/15/2007 3:45 PM |
Alert | | The ACLU is the biggest hypocritical joke on the planet......... | |
"Your village called.........they're missing their idiot" | |
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| | Sapo
Posts:184
| | 11/01/2007 7:52 AM |
Alert | This thread raised my interest in reading "The God Delusion" and my husband purchased me the audio book -- I'm about halfway through. WOW! What well-thought out, sensible arguments Mr. Dawkins has (!!) I am having a hard time tearing myself away from the book to go to work. I have a new hero.
Sapo | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 11/01/2007 8:30 AM |
Alert | Posted By Sapo on 11/01/2007 7:52 AM
This thread raised my interest in reading "The God Delusion" and my husband purchased me the audio book -- I'm about halfway through. WOW! What well-thought out, sensible arguments Mr. Dawkins has (!!) I am having a hard time tearing myself away from the book to go to work. I have a new hero.
Sapo
I'm curious which parts you think are "well thought out".
Compared to his previous work, I've found this tome to be excessively polemic. He has essentially become an Atheist Fundamentalist. His characterizations of theists, especially Christians, are selectively negative and generally unrepresentative of the culture of Christianity, much less the details. Read my previous posts where I cite page numbers and you'll begin to see what I mean here.
"Heroes" are generally fair-minded people who are kind and compassionate. There is nothing in this book of his that has anything to do with "fair-mindedness" or "compassion". In fact, I'd say that his discourse is antithetical to those virtues of a "hero". | | | |
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| | Veritas
Posts:250
| | 11/01/2007 9:11 AM |
Alert | To everyone who considers themselves a responsible skeptic, please get a copy of "Dawkins Delusion".
http://www.amazon.com/Dawkins-Delusion-Atheist-Fundamentalism-Denial/dp/083083446X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-5348604-6809561?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193933050&sr=8-1
Alister McGrath has a Ph.D. in both molecular biology and theology. He is a former atheist and a colleague of Richard Dawkins at Oxford.
I have an extra copy that I'd be glad to give away, but that would threaten the anonymity of this forum. If you can think of a way to get it from me, I'm game. | | | |
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| | Holy Roller
Posts:24
| | 11/01/2007 1:27 PM |
Alert | I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
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