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| | Author | Messages | |
Jason
Posts:3378
 | | 07/15/2007 5:50 PM |
 Alert | Posted By demonica on 07/15/2007 1:24 PM
really jason? who is it that determines whether one is a christian or not?
God.
i thought religion was a personal choice, and if one chose to be a christian (or wiccan or whatever) that was up to them.
They can certainly chose, but you'd think they'd act like one don't you. I can declare that as of now, I'm an atheist, but if I still make statements otherwise, am I an atheist?
and, um, yup, christ (he for whom christianity is named) was himself a jew. but jews do not believe that christ was a savior.
When discussing a religion's history, it matters very little whether or not the religion that we're discussing derived from approved the derivation or not. So is Christianity old? Yes.
one of the main ways christianity was made palatable to pagans was by incorporating their deities and rituals into christianity.
Examples? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Tjtellez9
Posts:228
| | 07/15/2007 8:44 PM |
Alert | Funny. People who are raised to believe something that is a mans translation loosely based on a rock and some old pieces of paper are raising a fuss about a work of fiction?
COME ON.
Harry POtter is as much of the devil as Olive Garden is true italian food. | | | |
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| | mallardisme
Posts:590
| | 07/16/2007 12:54 AM |
Alert | Gosh, tirobinson I have to smile. you can quote the bible well.
The thing is that the question was, "Is Harry Potter evil?"
I can quote the Bible, Koran, Quaballa as well, but that does not answer the question, does it?
On this thread, I have to agree with Tjellez9:Harry POtter is as much of the devil as Olive Garden is true italian food.
Furthermore I do have to say that going to church makes you no more a Christan than going to a garage makes you a car.
My point is that these books are great to read and they really help kids explore the world of books. Darn the author, how silly she was to write the first book in a laundromat.
I would have responded earlier, but my son and my familly were wasting time in bible school today. LOL
For the record, how fun is this? Are we all speaking about this? I think God would find this interesting.
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Let X=X | |
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| | starlaisme
Posts:55
| | | starlaisme
Posts:55
| | 07/16/2007 8:45 AM |
Alert | | Ok the problem with Harry Potter is that people just see “witches” and can’t get past that. Harry Potter is not about real “witches”, it is about friendship, taking responsibly for things, team work, good verses evil (and good always win). Oh and it is getting kids to read too. | |
25MPH in VRED: not just a good idea, it's the law. | |
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| | 06woman
Posts:356
| | 07/16/2007 12:18 PM |
Alert | Posted By EEE on 07/15/2007 3:16 PM Posted By demonica on 07/15/2007 3:10 PM
if 06woman says she is an atheist, then i will call her an athiest. if you say she is an atheist, then i will ask how you presume to know what is in her heart? would you like to tell me what i am, too? No, because I haven't engaged you in a conversation to know what you believe. I've talked to 06woman a few times online, and I know she is either an atheist or agnostic from her comments. The point is, she once was something and now she is not, so after she died I'm not going to say "06woman was a catholic" Maybe "06woman was once a catholic." So to say Hitler was a Christian is wrong.
The last thing I want is for someone to bring up that I was or once was a Catholic. It has nothing to do with who I am at the time of my death. At least if I die now, but I don't see myself ever changing my mind back to that.
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"Happiness is a journey...not a destination."
"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about." -
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
This is my son and a Lake Erie sunset. July 8,2007
Senior Member
Posts: 2268
Joined: May 2006 | |
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|  | EEE
Posts:374
| | 07/16/2007 12:22 PM |
Alert | Posted By 06woman on 07/16/2007 12:18 PM Posted By EEE on 07/15/2007 3:16 PM Posted By demonica on 07/15/2007 3:10 PM
if 06woman says she is an atheist, then i will call her an athiest. if you say she is an atheist, then i will ask how you presume to know what is in her heart? would you like to tell me what i am, too? No, because I haven't engaged you in a conversation to know what you believe. I've talked to 06woman a few times online, and I know she is either an atheist or agnostic from her comments. The point is, she once was something and now she is not, so after she died I'm not going to say "06woman was a catholic" Maybe "06woman was once a catholic." So to say Hitler was a Christian is wrong. The last thing I want if for someone to bring up that I was or once was a Catholic. It has nothing to do with who I am at the time of my death. At least if I die now, but I don't see myself ever changing my mind back to that.
Exactly my point of not attributing a Christian belief to Hitler. Thank you 06woman for being an example.  | |
Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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| | Sinbad
Posts:3046
| | 07/16/2007 12:23 PM |
Alert | I don't know ..but the stories are getting darker!!!
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Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
______________________________________
***************************************
San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these | |
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| | maricopacabana
Posts:342
| | 07/16/2007 12:32 PM |
Alert |
one of the main ways christianity was made palatable to pagans was by incorporating their deities and rituals into christianity.
Examples?
Christmas for one, borrows a lot from the existing pagan holidays. | | | |
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| | Sinbad
Posts:3046
| | 07/16/2007 12:38 PM |
Alert | ***officals stop by***
I have read and understood the posting on this thread and have nothing to add and will not be returning to this thread.. lol
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Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
______________________________________
***************************************
San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these | |
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| | 06woman
Posts:356
| | 07/16/2007 3:18 PM |
Alert | Thanks Sinbad...
Anyway, where were we? | |
"Happiness is a journey...not a destination."
"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about." -
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
This is my son and a Lake Erie sunset. July 8,2007
Senior Member
Posts: 2268
Joined: May 2006 | |
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| | Nothingtodo
Posts:285
| | 07/17/2007 11:00 PM |
Alert | From the History Channel
Few people realize that the origins of a form of Christmas was pagan & celebrated in Europe long before anyone there had heard of Jesus Christ.
No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ’s birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?
The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.
In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.
In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.
Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means “wheel,” the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods.
The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.
In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ’s birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.
Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: “Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ.”
The controversy continues even today in some fundamentalist sects. | |
I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven’t got the guts to bite people themselves. ~Sir Geoffrey Streatfield | |
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| | Nothingtodo
Posts:285
| | 07/17/2007 11:03 PM |
Alert | Just one of many examples of books written about the connection between Pagan traditions and beliefs and Christian traditions and beliefs
Christianity: The Origins of a Pagan Religion
By (author) Philippe Walter
ISBN-13: 978-1-59477-096-8
ISBN: 1-59477-096-4
Reveals how Christian mythology of the Middle Ages had more to do with paganism than the Bible
• Identifies pagan deities that were incorporated into each of the saints
• Shows how all the major holidays on the Christian calendar are modeled on long-standing pagan traditions
This extensive study of the Christian mythology that animated medieval Europe shows that this mythology is primarily of pagan inspiration and that very little of it comes from the Bible. The fact that Christianity grafted itself onto earlier pagan worship was no mystery to the Church Fathers, Philippe Walter explains. Pagan elements were incorporated into the Christian faith on the advice of Pope Gregory the Great, who told Saint Augustine of Canterbury that rather than tear down the pagan temples in Britain, he should instead add the pagan rituals into the mix of Christian practices, thus providing an easy transition to the new religion. It was simply a matter of convincing the populace to slightly redirect their focus to include Jesus.
In this highly documented work Walter shows which major calendar days of the Christian year are founded on pagan rituals and myths, including the high holidays of Easter and Christmas, a time when many pagans prepared for the coming of spirits who would leave gifts for those who honored their coming. Indeed, the identities of saints and pagan figures were so intermingled that some saints were even transformed into pagan incarnations. Mary Magdalene, for instance, became one of the ladies of the lake of Celtic legend. He also explores how the hagiographic accounts of the saints in the scriptures reveal the origin of these symbolic figures to be the deities worshiped in pagan Europe for centuries. | |
I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven’t got the guts to bite people themselves. ~Sir Geoffrey Streatfield | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/17/2007 11:04 PM |
Alert | | Got a cliff notes version? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Nothingtodo
Posts:285
| | 07/17/2007 11:14 PM |
Alert | Yes. Here it is.
Christianity borrowed heavily from paganism for many of it's traditions.
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I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven’t got the guts to bite people themselves. ~Sir Geoffrey Streatfield | |
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| | Shogun
Posts:250
| | 07/18/2007 12:33 AM |
Alert | Is Harry Potter Evil?...No
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/18/2007 12:39 AM |
Alert |
Posted By Nothingtodo on 07/17/2007 11:14 PM Yes. Here it is. Christianity borrowed heavily from paganism for many of it's traditions.
Ah, OK.  | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | maricopacabana
Posts:342
| | 07/18/2007 5:00 AM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 07/18/2007 12:39 AM Posted By Nothingtodo on 07/17/2007 11:14 PM Yes. Here it is. Christianity borrowed heavily from paganism for many of it's traditions. Ah, OK.
As stated in ARS-666..... | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/18/2007 9:58 AM |
Alert | Posted By maricopacabana on 07/18/2007 5:00 AM Posted By Jason on 07/18/2007 12:39 AM Posted By Nothingtodo on 07/17/2007 11:14 PM Yes. Here it is. Christianity borrowed heavily from paganism for many of it's traditions. Ah, OK. As stated in ARS-666.....
There goes Cabana again...quoting the ARS... | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | TheBoymaker
Posts:787
| | 07/19/2007 3:18 PM |
Alert | Christmas and Easter traditions are not Biblical and are the conscious choice of those who consider themselves Believers. Celebrating Christmas with a tree, or in December, or painting eggs, does not undermine a person's faith simply because in the beginning of the growth of the church, missionaries and the converted alike chose to make this new belief system more comfortable by continuing to participate in some well loved activities but conforming the meaning what they now believed.
A egg means fertility. Who says? Someone ten thousand years ago? It's an egg. It has three parts so it can stand for the Trinity. It's a potential life so it can stand for re-birth. What something means is only the result of a group of people assigning meaning to it. It's absurd and smug to say that Christians are indulging in pagan practices as thought it were for the same reasons. They have their own reasons which are true for them.
We go through this every year at Halloween. Someone cuts and pastes from a fundy anti-Halloween or 'Christians are hypocrites website' and tries to tie these benign celebrations to some decadent or superstitious beginning as though that has a bearing on what's going on today. It's little more than cultural history.
Next we'll be told that Christians roast marshmallows to celebrate the burning of witches. | |
Poster formerly known as Sassafrass. | |
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