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| | Author | Messages | |
JAG
Posts:689


 | | 07/25/2008 11:36 PM |
Alert | So there is a ad that says their parish is God Fearing, how can a Calvinist be God Fearing if they know they are one of the the Chosen ones. To state that you fear God, means you are groveling for a place at His table, but why grovel if you know you already have a spot? I do not mean this in a mean way, or attempting to state the the parish is false in anyway. I am just asking a legitamate question. | | | |
| | EEE
Posts:398


 | | 07/26/2008 7:21 AM |
Alert | Posted By JAG on 07/25/2008 11:36 PM So there is a ad that says their parish is God Fearing, how can a Calvinist be God Fearing if they know they are one of the the Chosen ones. To state that you fear God, means you are groveling for a place at His table, but why grovel if you know you already have a spot? I do not mean this in a mean way, or attempting to state the the parish is false in anyway. I am just asking a legitamate question.
Being scared of God vs. fearing God is two different things.
But for the believer, it's a reverence; Heb 12:28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe;
Heb 12:29 for our God is a consuming fire. Only a believer can truly fear God. Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction. The fear of God is the basis for our walking in His ways, serving Him, and yes, loving Him. Deuteronomy 10:12,20-21 "Now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require from you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve Him and cling to Him, and you shall swear by His name. He is your praise and He is your God, who has done these great and awesome things for you which your eyes have seen." Finally, a believer fears God's discipline. For example, when I have sinned, I fear God might chasten me, by taking the things I love dearly away from me(ie, my wife, my mother, etc.) Heb 12:5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;
Heb 12:6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.
Heb 12:11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. That's how a Calvinist and all true believers fear God. Even before I was Calvinist I feared God the same way. Most Baptist don't believe you can lose your salvation. Because salvation is by faith alone, and not by some work which we can lose it by. Where is this ad? What church is it? I didn't know a Calvinist chuch existed in Maricopa. | | Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/ But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/ The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/ to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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| | JAG
Posts:689


 | | 07/27/2008 6:49 AM |
Alert | Posted By EEE on 07/26/2008 7:21 AM That's how a Calvinist and all true believers fear God. Even before I was Calvinist I feared God the same way. Most Baptist don't believe you can lose your salvation. Because salvation is by faith alone, and not by some work which we can lose it by. Sola fide is not biblical and its actually denounced throughout the bible. See James 2 14:26 14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. This is pretty clear that salvation can only be attained by Faith and Works under Christs covenent. Neither can happen without the other, of course you can debate which must come 1st, but you will run into the provobial Chicken and Egg thing. Thank you for your explanation though, I still think that you are not really explaining true "Fear". If you know you are the chosen ones, how can you lose that? Here is the website and banner. They have a impressive Website and meet at Legacy Traditional on Sundays. http://www.calvarymaricopa.org/ | | | |
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| | EEE
Posts:398


 | | 07/27/2008 1:17 PM |
Alert | Four important key points often missed by people who abuse this passage by James:
1) James wrote the letter to believing Jews who were dispersed to flee Christian persecution. They were already saved. (James 1:1,2)
2) The church was confused by newly Jewish converts. The Jews here, knowing that Salvation is through faith alone and not works, thought it was OK to do whatever they wanted since they were saved now. They were walking around saying they have Faith. Their old Jewish ways were based off of works. Which leads to point 3....
3)
James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
James was making an examples of these Jews, as you can see by his indirect statement "if someone says he has faith"
4) Finally, I understand if those first 3 points didn’t sell you. I’ve saved the best for last. The most clear evidence James is in agreement with Paul that Salvation is by Faith alone and not works.
In the Same Chapter James says:
James 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"--and he was called a friend of God.
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
I love how in Romans 4:3, Paul was arguing a point by saying “What does the Scripture say”, Abraham was made righteousness because of his faith.
Genesis 15:6And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
The Good work that showed Abraham’s faith was genuine happened later after he was already declared righteous because of his faith. Genesis 22 The chapter where Abraham was offering Isaac as a sacrifice, being obedient to God.
Abraham was righteous before the Lord because he believed. The work James said justified Abraham was his offering up of Isaac an event that occurred many years after he first exercised faith and was declared righteous before God. Instead Abraham's offering of Isaac demonstrated the genuineness of his faith and the reality of his justification before God. James is emphasizing the vindication before others of a person's claim to salvation. | | Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/ But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/ The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/ to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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| | EEE
Posts:398


 | | 07/27/2008 1:18 PM |
Alert | Posted By JAG on 07/27/2008 6:49 AM
Thanks for the link. Where do you see they are Calvinist? I read their statement of faith, and it doesn't look like it to me. Maybe you know, or heard something that is different from their statement of faith. | | Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/ But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/ The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/ to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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| | JAG
Posts:689


 | | 07/28/2008 12:16 PM |
Alert |
Thanks for the link. Where do you see they are Calvinist? I read their statement of faith, and it doesn't look like it to me. Maybe you know, or heard something that is different from their statement of faith.
I assumed a calvary chapel would be calvinist. | | | |
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| | JAG
Posts:689


 | | 07/28/2008 12:38 PM |
Alert | Abraham had a direct covenent with the Father, there was no other covenent but his own. To attempt to state that Abraham and Christians hold the same covenent is totally ignoreing the history and genoligy of the bible. That said, Abraham by his own right did in fact do works, works that were a result of his faith. Works is to Faith as Breathing is to Life. You simply cannot state that Faith can be present without Works, even as much as you attempt to disect James. Sola fide is an incorrect teaching and one that is not biblical. If God wanted sola fide to be true, then why is there no evidence of it till the 15th century? You would think something so importent would have came out a little faster then 1500years. Also to clarify, the Church does not state that you can earn your salvation. Of course there have been abuses, but it is human nature to corrupt. | | | |
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