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Subject: christianity the only true religion?
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*rikimaru*User is Offline

Posts:445


07/18/2008 8:07 PM Alert 

so i am a HUGE history buff, especially pertaining to ancient-middle ages/modern history relating to the americas&europe. my question to christians, is why throughout history has christianity touted itself as the one true religion&everyone else's beliefs were squashed or looked down upon? do people today realize the enormous amount of lives both native&european that have been lost through the ages because of the hubris of christianity towards native peoples?

i feel so disheartened because so much bloodshed could have been avoided if early christions both spanish,french,english etc etc would have just listened to native peoples&related their own views&let people make up their own minds instead of denouncing them outright&labeling them heathens and justifying to themselves the destruction of their cultures&religions because they either didnt believe or refused to comply?

and on the other side, how many white/caucasian lives ie settlers,frontiers people would have been spared if their attitude towards other religions were more tolerant/understanding? i just shake my head and wonder how people can be like that. btw this has happened in many countries in many parts of the world. any thoughts on this?


listened for, they cannot be heard;looked for, they cannot be seen; felt for, they cannot be touched: old ninja proverb
hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:819


07/18/2008 8:36 PM Alert 

By their very nature Christianity and other religions are based on an absolute belief in the correctness of their faith. Thats why they are called faiths and not opinions. As much as it upsets the PC multi-cultural crowd, if one believes in a religious faith, then one must, by definition believe that all other religions are in error. In addition, if you truly have faith that your particular religion is the path to salvation, it can be argued that you have a moral duty to convert others to your faith. The other side of that particular coin is the attitude of some throughout history ,that those who oppose your particular dogma are doing the work of the devil.

Many horrific things have happened over the centuries in many parts of the world as a result of religious zeal. To think that this was only true of Western Christianity is an error (read the Koran for an example).

JAGUser is Offline

Posts:475


07/18/2008 9:54 PM Alert 

There were close to 100Million lives lost in the USSR that has atheism as a foundation. Shintoism has murdered millions in the last century. Or what about the 20k+ religious follower who were massacred by the Spanish revolution in the early 20th?

In the end, its not religion, its people. People will kill other people for what ever reason, and to attempt to say that it is due to a religion is ignorant. Its human nature to have conflict, and in many ways Christianity and other religions have slowed this conflict.

*rikimaru*User is Offline

Posts:445


07/19/2008 7:59 AM Alert 
good points inndeed, i should have clairified that christianity was not the only party guilty of these acts. islam was just as bad during its spread from arabia, especially in africa&north through spain although they were stopped in france. people kill people, but islam&christianity are the only ones i am aware of that has done it in the name of a deity although why a deity would want or need that done in their name is beyond me

listened for, they cannot be heard;looked for, they cannot be seen; felt for, they cannot be touched: old ninja proverb
qwertyUser is Offline

Posts:135


07/19/2008 9:09 AM Alert 
...although why a deity would want or need that done in their name is beyond me

Exactly. My opinion is either they had a really twisted view of their religion or they were using religion as an excuse to conquest, claiming to be doing their God's work.
hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:819


07/19/2008 10:53 AM Alert 

rikimaru- I'm glad that you have an interest in history. Having taught ancient and medieval history along with modern world history for 30 years I obviously share your interest. For a few more examples of religious based violence read the Old Testament. You will see that a lot of religious based smiting was going on. For more examples read about the Aztecs and other meso -American civilizations, whose reason for war was to gain captives for human sacrifice. The treatment of early Christians by the pagan Romans, and later by the Odin worshiping Vikings are other examples of note. Moving east, you can read about the Muslim - Hindu violence in India. Both sides were more than willing to massacre their opponents. I could go on, but I think that I have made my point. Throughout history, and in all parts of the world, religious based violence has been a constant thread woven into the tapestry of civilization.

*rikimaru*User is Offline

Posts:445


07/19/2008 4:42 PM Alert 
yeah i would agree with that hastings. much easier to condone&justify acts of aggression when their is a supernatural being authorizing it, also as a leader i imagine its easier to convince people to fight&die for a religious cause vs a man made one. you know its funny that the followers of christianity forgot about their experiences in the colisseum&what it was like being on the other end of the spectrum.

listened for, they cannot be heard;looked for, they cannot be seen; felt for, they cannot be touched: old ninja proverb
RichTigUser is Offline

Posts:0

07/19/2008 7:04 PM Alert 

People with faith are annoyed by others who don't think all crazy like they do.  Those other people believe something else and that might make the christians question their faith.  So, they have to die.

Convert and think like we do or die.  Its your choice.  God be praised.

*rikimaru*User is Offline

Posts:445


07/19/2008 7:40 PM Alert 
thats funny richtig, but true too

listened for, they cannot be heard;looked for, they cannot be seen; felt for, they cannot be touched: old ninja proverb
JAGUser is Offline

Posts:475


07/19/2008 11:24 PM Alert 

Posted By *rikimaru* on 07/19/2008 4:42 PM
yeah i would agree with that hastings. much easier to condone&justify acts of aggression when their is a supernatural being authorizing it, also as a leader i imagine its easier to convince people to fight&die for a religious cause vs a man made one. you know its funny that the followers of christianity forgot about their experiences in the colisseum&what it was like being on the other end of the spectrum.

The colisseum was still in use well into Christodoms taking over of Rome.

That said and to be honest, the only acts of killing others in the name of God was well before the 1st millenium. After that it was pretty much as a act of defense/conquest as in the Crusades, Indians were never killed becuase God told someone to do it, they were killed becuase they were in the way.

JAGUser is Offline

Posts:475


07/19/2008 11:26 PM Alert 
Posted By RichTig on 07/19/2008 7:04 PM

People with faith are annoyed by others who don't think all crazy like they do.  Those other people believe something else and that might make the christians question their faith.  So, they have to die.

Convert and think like we do or die.  Its your choice.  God be praised.

Whats your address?

 

TheBoymakerUser is Offline

Posts:722


07/19/2008 11:45 PM Alert 
And let it be recognized that Christianity never advocated slaughtering anyone - even one's own enemies. It was the Catholic Church that hijacked what was a peaceful faith and persecuted dissenters and sold salvation as it built it's Holy Empire.

Poster formerly known as Sassafrass.
JAGUser is Offline

Posts:475


07/20/2008 4:34 AM Alert 

Posted By TheBoymaker on 07/19/2008 11:45 PM
And let it be recognized that Christianity never advocated slaughtering anyone - even one's own enemies. It was the Catholic Church that hijacked what was a peaceful faith and persecuted dissenters and sold salvation as it built it's Holy Empire.

Link?

 

JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:1933


07/20/2008 7:58 AM Alert 
Posted By JAG on 07/19/2008 11:24 PM

Posted By *rikimaru* on 07/19/2008 4:42 PM
yeah i would agree with that hastings. much easier to condone&justify acts of aggression when their is a supernatural being authorizing it, also as a leader i imagine its easier to convince people to fight&die for a religious cause vs a man made one. you know its funny that the followers of christianity forgot about their experiences in the colisseum&what it was like being on the other end of the spectrum.

The colisseum was still in use well into Christodoms taking over of Rome.

That said and to be honest, the only acts of killing others in the name of God was well before the 1st millenium. After that it was pretty much as a act of defense/conquest as in the Crusades, Indians were never killed becuase God told someone to do it, they were killed becuase they were in the way.

On a side note, Native American tribes were killing each other long before the Europeans showed up.  I'm not justifying the settlers, or the horrible treatment Native Americans received, but just to show that humans have been killing each other since the Stone Age. 


"Your village called.........they're missing their idiot"
JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:1933


07/20/2008 8:03 AM Alert 
Posted By TheBoymaker on 07/19/2008 11:45 PM
And let it be recognized that Christianity never advocated slaughtering anyone - even one's own enemies. It was the Catholic Church that hijacked what was a peaceful faith and persecuted dissenters and sold salvation as it built it's Holy Empire.



That's one side of the story.  Go read up on England's history.  Whenever the Catholic royal family was in charge, they killed Protestants.  And then whenever the Protestant family was in charge, they killed Catholics. 


"Your village called.........they're missing their idiot"
RichTigUser is Offline

Posts:0

07/20/2008 8:12 AM Alert 
Posted By JasonY on 07/20/2008 8:03 AM
Posted By TheBoymaker on 07/19/2008 11:45 PM
And let it be recognized that Christianity never advocated slaughtering anyone - even one's own enemies. It was the Catholic Church that hijacked what was a peaceful faith and persecuted dissenters and sold salvation as it built it's Holy Empire.



That's one side of the story.  Go read up on England's history.  Whenever the Catholic royal family was in charge, they killed Protestants.  And then whenever the Protestant family was in charge, they killed Catholics. 

 

 

PRAY WITH US OR DIE!

*rikimaru*User is Offline

Posts:445


07/20/2008 10:09 AM Alert 
jason is right, there were factions within christianity that killed each other. its sad how far away from the message JC preached, his followers have gotten. although there are some who believe the message&story of JC that the evangelists&followers believe is not only untrue, but fabricated by Paul on behalf of people he was working for. i am not saying i believe the evangelists nor the conspiracy theories, but you have to admit if it was a conspiracy&fabrication in order to unite&bring many peoples under control&pull their strings, it has indeed proven successful.

my initial point was the hubris&arrogance of christianity has affected the lives of millions&millions of people through the ages&most of it not in a good way. i was just wondering how people reconcile what has happened, with the belief&message that JC allegedly preached&practiced?

listened for, they cannot be heard;looked for, they cannot be seen; felt for, they cannot be touched: old ninja proverb
hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:819


07/20/2008 1:20 PM Alert 

People have been killing each other since the stone ages. In one of my text books I saw  photos of pre-historic cave paintings of groups fighting each other. Religion, any religion, is just one more excuse to kill the people on the other side of the river or the other side of the hill. Monotheistic faiths may be more inclined to view other faiths unfavorably as they believe that if my God is the God, then others must be false. Polytheistic religions, by their very nature , may be more forgiving of other faiths. After all, if you believe in many gods, it is reasonable to suppose that the other guys  god is as real as yours.

One should not however, blame a faith (Christianity) for the misuse of that faith. Some religions, such as Islam, do advocate war against and killing of those of other faiths. If you read the New Testament you will find no such call.

EEEUser is Offline

Posts:374


07/20/2008 6:18 PM Alert 
Posted By TheBoymaker on 07/19/2008 11:45 PM
And let it be recognized that Christianity never advocated slaughtering anyone - even one's own enemies.


This is not true, there are many examples.  For one example, look into John Calvin burning his enemy Servetus to the stake.


Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/
EEEUser is Offline

Posts:374


07/20/2008 6:35 PM Alert 

Good thread and question.  And when people ask me this question, I respond with a question. 

Does this disprove Christianity as the only true religion? 

 

Also riki, you are protraying Jesus as a Pacificst, which he was not.  That was not his reason for coming.  He was quite clear that he left his glory in Heaven to come save his people from their sins.  He built up the 12 disciples to spread the Gospel and that was to repent and believe. 

As far as the controlling people theory, anybody who has studied the whole bible and the history of the bible(old and New testament), could see how over a few thousand years it would be impossible for the writings to be in agreement with each other without contradictions.  The Old Testament prophesized the coming of the Messiah, the Gospels record the life of the Messiah, the rest of the new testament shows the spread of the gospel message of the Messiah.  If there was a master plan to deceive people with a book called the bible, it would have been properly planned out and carried over a few thousand years, which obviously didn't happen.  Plus the Patriots weren't even around back then.(Probably only riki will get my MGS reference )


Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/
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