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Subject: Weird question - I'm certain there is a simple answer
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love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:477

06/30/2008 3:34 PM Alert 

The article on the home page has sparked a question. . .

bishop and prophetess. . .

Is a prophetess different than a Bishop or a Pastor, Priest, etc?

I'm curious because I though most Christian religions did not separate the titles out according to gender.  I find it interesting that it is Bishop and Prophetess -

So I am curious if there is a difference in 'level' so to speak. . .

thanks!

itsadryheatUser is Offline

Posts:229

06/30/2008 4:18 PM Alert 
Maybe you should post the article. I think I understand your question, but would like to read what the article says.
love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:477

06/30/2008 4:34 PM Alert 

This one

It's on the home page.

DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

06/30/2008 5:07 PM Alert 

I would say that the "bishop" calls himself "bishop" instead of Pastor for any number of reasons. I would imagine that different Christian denominations have different titles (that they feel comfortable with). I don't remember reading what denomination these people say they are (Baptist, Pentecostal, non-denominational). However, I did a quick search at biblegateway.com on the word Bishop and it came up with this definition, "an overseer, a supervisor." it also gave some verses to support this Philippians 1:1; Acts 20:28; 1 Timothy 3:2-7; Titus 1:5-11.

Again, I am not sure why she is calling herself a prophetess. Prophecy is a gift given by God that some people do have; it is a spiritual gift. Perhaps God has given her this gift, I am not sure. The Bible mentions a few women as prophetesses, Miriam (Exodus 15:20) , Deborah (judges 4:4), Huldah (II kings 22:14). These seem to be titles that they have given themselves maybe based on gifts that they feel they have from God (prophecy) or the role that they have from God (preacher, overseer).  The gift of prophecy according to I Corinthians 14:3 is to "But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort."

Your question was whether there were levels. No. Not levels. Just titles and ways of addressing each other. Like I call my pastor "Pastor" delineating a title. If you were to ask these people, I don't think they would say that what they have chosen to call themselves, the title they have given, denotes a level or a feeling of being better.

These are my thoughts. Maybe you should just ask them.

love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:477

06/30/2008 5:16 PM Alert 
Thanks!

"levels" was the wrong word to use. I should have said "offices" or "positions", which is what I really meant.

we believe in prophesy (which can be given according to ones stewardship) so this is not a foreign idea to me, I've just never run into the title "prophetess" outside of the Bible so I was curious if it denoted a different office than her husband. ("bishop" I understood )

DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

06/30/2008 5:19 PM Alert 
we believe in prophesy (which can be given according to ones stewardship)


What does this mean? One's stewardship?
love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:477

06/30/2008 5:52 PM Alert 
We hold offices or positions in our church which is our stewardship. Right now I'm choir director, which means I can receive revelation in regards to what the congregation needs in the choir and how to help it function the best. That can be anything from the music that is performed to the time we meet.

The Bishop of our congregations has stewardship over all aspects of the ward. If he doesn't like the music I choose, he can ask me to please change it, and because he can receive revelation on this matter - I would not argue (although some may ask for an explanation).

As parents we have stewardship over our children. We can receive revelation pertaining to their needs and to our family. The husbands, as dictated in Gensis (3: 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.) are the spiritual leaders within our home and have stewardship in that respect. For instance, if my husband asked me to put a spiritual practice into place (reading scriptures, prayer, a certain lesson) then I should listen to what he has to say.

THIS is stewardship. I cannot receive revelation for how the children's group is run or the women's group, or what lessons should be taught at church, but I CAN receive revelation on what music is best suited at certain mtgs. There was one time I was picking music for the choir to perform and I simply felt like there was a particular song which needed to be performed. . . The song we sang was a hymn whos words were written by President Hinckley. We performed it the day he passed away.

On a different occasion, I was preparing for a Christmas program and had chosen the person to write a narration. . . The bishop was newly called, and different bishops will do things differently. I has assumed I would still be in charge of choosing this person. I asked the person and she told me she would get back to me and let me know. A few weeks later, I got a call from the Bishop's counselor to let me know, at the bishop's request, he had asked a certain person to write the narration. We laughed when we realized it was the same person, and she was deeply touched and recognized she was being asked by God and not us, when we were able to relate the story to her.

When it comes to visions or prophesying - it is possible. I might receive a vision on the best way to handle a situation in my family. However - as you said, it is a gift from God. I have many gifts I believe come from God - but this is not one I have experienced yet.

IT MUST come through our stewardship though. I cannot receive revelation or visions on behalf of my neighbor. I cannot receive them for the kids group or the women's group. It MUST be through my stewardship. If my husband told me he had a vision that we should move - I would pray about it and then I would follow his direction if the spirit told me it was true. If the bishop told me I should move I would do the same. If the children's group leader came to me and told me she had had a vision and I should move - I would likely be very concerned and go and talk to the bishop about the fact that she was stepping outside of her stewardship.

Hope that all makes sense! There are LDS people who get confused on this subject. . .

Basically, revelation and visions through our stewardships are just that and are gifts from God. Revelation and visions which come through phsycics and mediums or outside of a stewardship are NOT of God, but are of Satan. EVEN when the person has every good intention - they can be misguided. IOW, I am not saying they are bad people, just that they are not doing God's work.

(visions are very rare, BTW and I have never personally spoken to a person who has had one - they are sacred and not shared regularly)
JAGUser is Offline

Posts:477


06/30/2008 8:34 PM Alert 

We had a speaker at a retreat that called use to call himself a bishop and his wife something simular. They coverted and now do speaking events and he teaches at a Jesiut school in Chicago.

DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

06/30/2008 8:36 PM Alert 
Hmmm, I am not sure if that is entirely biblical. What about congregants who don't have a "job" per se (is that how you spell it) in the LDS belief system? Like you are the choir director? OK, so of course it would make sense that you would choose the songs that were sung and in what order. The worship leader at my church does that. I don't know that he gets "revelations" on what to sing or not. I suppose he prays about it. Talks to our pastor about what he plans on preaching over the weekend and then makes choices that help bring the congregants toward that goal. I wouldn't expect him to go to the early childhood pastor and tell them what they should do or not do with that group because that's not his job. Although, since he has children who attend that ministry, I think they would be open to his sharing something with them. As I think they would be open to my sharing with them as well.

As a parent, I pray about situations with my children and we try to make Godly decisions about how to parent them. Am I their steward? The definition of steward is someone who is a caretaker or takes care of..."

I guess, I am confused about your definition of "revelation." I think that these are decisions that are made (i.e. choosing a song for that week so sing), as opposed to a revelation. Are you saying that as somone who holds a job in the LDS system you (and they) are constantly receiving words from God? And what about these visions you speak of? The Bible talks about how God used visions to reveal His Truth, but He also speaks about how we are not to use them as a means of decision making.

As you can see, I am a little weary of what you are talking about here.
A
BionicbunnyUser is Offline

Posts:521


07/01/2008 8:25 AM Alert 
I've been a Christian my whole life and have never heard of a Prophetess before. Maybe they aren't affiliated with any current branch of Christianity and are starting their own ?
DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

07/01/2008 8:47 AM Alert 
Yes, I have never heard of this either. I emailed them directly and asked for more information regarding their church and titles. I thought they might post here directly since there was a question, but maybe they have not seen email yet. I am not sure.
love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:477

07/01/2008 9:55 AM Alert 

Revelations are basically answers to prayers, that tell us what it is God wants.  The spirit is what speaks to us.  It is difficult to explain but I'll do my best.  ALSO, I do not believe only LDS members receive revelation - ESPECIALLY when it comes to decisions concerning our families. So, to answer your question about being the steward of your children - yes, I believe you are and I believe you receive personal revelation from God regularly on their behalf.

As I said, revelations are basically answers to prayers.  We pray about our children and we receive answers regarding how to tend to their needs.  There are times when we have impressions of what needs to be done.  These impressions are also personal revelation.

Satan can imitate spiritual gifts.  Which means he can imitate revelation.  It is important to be able to recognize the spirit  and also to remember that revelation cannot be received outside of stewardship.

You bring up that you can make suggestions.  It is the same here.  Someone can come to me and say, "I really love this song and I think the choir should perform it."  At that point I may feel good about that and go ahead and perform the song.  There are other times, such as President Hinckley's song, that I feel prompted to sing a very particular song.  This was the case when we performed "My Redeemer Lives"  I was choosing a song to perform with the choir and I felt impressed to perform this song.  We prepared it, the day we sang the song was the day President Hinkley passed away.  The choir sang his testimony that day.  There was no coincidence.

When it comes to the primary president (children's group), she may receive revelation concerning the needs of a certain class or the spiritual needs of a particular child.  She may be prompted to see how a child is doing outside of church.  She may feel the need to have a certain topic lightly touched on.  It is much more than just planning.  It is working with God on how things are done.  It is Christ's church, and He lets us know if there is a special need.

I have no say over who works in the primary.  If I have a problem I can bring it up, but ultimately I have no decision-making ablities there. 

My son was having a difficult time being in primary due to his disablity.  He was really struggling and had taken to sitting under a table in the hall instead of attending the large group mtg.  I spent time trying to work on what to do with the primary presidency and we all did a lot of praying.  Then they received different callings and I wasn't certain what would happen because I spent so much time working with them and I think things will start to happen for my son and they are released.  But God knows our needs, and our children's needs, and He works through revelation.  The person called as president is a person who already had a personal relationship with my son.  I was happy about this. 

Once she was extended the call by the Bishop, she then has to pick counselors.  I spoke to her about this following the public calls, when I found out who her counselors are.  She told me she felt very impressed to call two women she had never before met.  She wasn't even certain what one of them looked like.  One of them is an Occupational Therapist.  The primary president did not know this until after the calling was extended - I was the one that told her.  Whether you, or anyone else can say this - makes no matter.  The Bishop and then the Primary President received revelation concerning who should work in the primary.  It was a direct answer to my prayers.  These women have my son out of the hall and in the room, they have him PARTICIPATING in primary.  They have the skills necessary to help my son and God knew that and had them placed there.  THIS is revelation.

What is not revelation is a person telling their neighbor or their friend (both not in their stewardship) that "God told me you need to __________" or "God says you'll be happier if you sell your house and move" -- etc.  It is through a stewardship.

Visions.  As I said earlier, they are rare and sacred and people don't talk about them even to other church members.  The visions I hear of most often are usually things like dreaming about a child that is waiting to be born and wanting to join the family. On occasion you might hear of a parent who sees a child getting hurt if they are to do a certain thing - kind of a warning.  I have never heard of a vision of God being given to someone other than a prophet, AND I have not heard of a prophet since Joseph Smith who has had a vision of God- although - feel most likely have (they do not say). 

Visions happened regularly through the Bible.  Samuel heard God call his name.  Moses saw God's face and spoke to Him mouth to mouth.  Peter, James and John were there during the transfiguration and watched as Jesus spoke with Moses and Elias.  They heard the voice of God.

So visions are very Biblical.  However, as you said they are something that we need to be careful with.  They will only come through the correct stewardship.  Even then we are taught to not take someone's word for it, but to pray to know for ourselves (we are taught the same with revelation).  The best example I have of this (of the top of my head) is from the Book of Mormon - I'm certain there are Bible examples too.

Lehi had a vision in the wilderness concerning his family.  Background:  Lehi was a prophet who left Jeruselem at God's command.  He took his family with him.  When he shared his vision with his family.  Most of his sons laughed and mocked him.  Nephi, on the other hand went and knelt in prayer and asked God.  Because of his faith, God showed Nephi what his father had seen and it was explained to him as well. 

Nephi didn't just take his father's word for it, but knowing his father was a prophet he also did not discount it.  Instead, he asked the Lord of its truthfulness.  This is something we are counseled to do.

Basically, personal revelation (answers to prayer) is how we can discern what is truth and what is not. God will revel to us the truthfulness of what is said, taught or done.  There are stewardships. . . if a person steps outside of a stewardship we can immediately know to be even a bit more than wary.  I cannot receive revelation or impressions (same thing) for someone elses children.  I may make suggestions, but ultimately I cannot KNOW what God would have for the child.  It is the same with visions - and personal revelation is an integral part of knowing how to interpret a vision.

I have not had a vision - I really don't expect to ever have one - but I do believe they happen.

I cannot stress enough though, that stewardship is the very first and foremost important aspect of revelation, visions and prophesy.  Only the prophet Thomas S. Monson can receive these things on behalf of the world. 

 

JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:1974


07/01/2008 10:30 AM Alert 
Peyote is good for creating visions...........

"Your village called.........they're missing their idiot"
JAGUser is Offline

Posts:477


07/01/2008 11:35 AM Alert 

Posted By Bionicbunny on 07/01/2008 8:25 AM
I've been a Christian my whole life and have never heard of a Prophetess before. Maybe they aren't affiliated with any current branch of Christianity and are starting their own ?

I believe its also a term for a female deacon. Back in the day when men and woman were seperated, they needed to have woman to be able to baptize other woman. Some orthodox churchs still have them.

I am not sure if the above article is for the same reason though.

 

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