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Subject: LDS church
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DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

04/01/2008 4:02 PM Alert 

Hi, I have a question about something I heard re: LDS churchs.  I am not LDS (I wanted to put that out right away). Anyway, I recently heard someone say that "One of the many great things about our church is that it's the same everywhere."  Would you explain to me what this means?  And does this imply that LDS members think that non-LDS churchs are all different from each other?  And with these differences, somehow weakened? Does this question make any sense at all?  When I was thinking about it, it made sense in my mind- LOL. 

I guess I want to know, how all LDS churchs are the same.  I know they all pretty much look the same.  But, each week does each leader talk on the same topic across all the LDS churchs so that the study is the same?  Could this person have meant that the format of all the LDS churchs are the same?  I would assume [whether you agree with it or not] that the LDS doctrine would be the same, as it would be in Christian churchs or other beliefs. 

I am not trying to START anything, just understand what I heard and would like a broad perspective.

luv the copaUser is Offline

Posts:175


04/01/2008 4:57 PM Alert 

I know exactly what you are saying, maybe this will help.

Our church is a worldwide church. We have a President (Thomas S. Monson) who presides over all members worldwide. The lessons that are taught on Sundays are from manuals that are printed in every language, so no matter which church you go to in the world , whether Maricopa or China, you will probably be getting the same lesson or will be within a few weeks of it. Our youth organization, children's organization, women's organization and men's organization will have the same lesson manual, and yearly theme. For example the theme this year for the youth is "Be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in goodworks." (which is quoted from the Book of Mosiah in the Book of Mormon) That theme will be the same for every 12-18 year old world wide. Our hymn books have the same music, etc. There is more, but that is it in a nutshell.

The only thing that will be different is our sacrament meeting (our main worship meeting).  Each week there is a talk given by different people from the congregation.  Every area obviously has different needs and personalities, so the talks are very individual to each congregation.

Good question! Hope that helps.


Changing lives one diaper at a time since 1993.
Trecia
love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:476

04/01/2008 5:34 PM Alert 

I just want to add a little to what Luv the copa concering our main mtg, or sacrament mtg.

We do not have a paid clergy.  Our mtgs are presided over by the bishop (usually) of the congregation.  Most would consider the bishop to be similar to a pastor or a priest.  However, it isn't often the bishop does the speaking.  Usually a member of the congregation is contacted by the bishop or one of his counselors and is asked to speak on a certain topic.  As mentioned, a bishop is more aware of what the individual congregration needs than any other church leader (the stake president, the prophet, etc. . .)  There are times when the bishop is asked by the Stake (who may be asked by higher-ups) to have a talk on a certain subject.  But that is rare.  Once a month, each congregation is spoken to by a member of the stake high council - their talks are still assigned by the bishop.  Having a member of the stake high council speak is one of the ways the congregation stays in touch with the stake pres.

A 'stake' is determined by how many members are in an area, similar to a 'ward'.  A ward is smaller and a stake is bigger.  Maricopa Stake was recently formed.  We meet together as a stake 2x a year and can have stake activities as often as the stake desires.  Twice a year we also have a world wide broadcast called General Conference.  It is THIS weekend.  Anyone can watch from the comfort of their own home provided they have SAT or Cable.  There will be 2 2 hr blocks on Sat and 2 2hr blocks on Sun.  This is a special mtg where our prophet and general authorities speak to the world.  Although, many people believe it is just for members, it actually is meant to be for everyone who wants to hear.

I don't think anyone holds the fact that we all have the same lesson as any given time to mean or believe we are better than any other religion.  It doesn't make us more 'right'.  But many of us like that if we go on vacation we can still not miss a certain lesson. . . 

DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

04/01/2008 5:48 PM Alert 
I didn't mean to imply "better" than other religions, I guess I wanted to know if LDS clergy, Bishops, Presidents saw this as a flaw in other religions. For example, Christian church pastors preach on whatever they want to preach on from the Bible, they do not have a worldwide manual or coordinated efforts in this regard.

So your bishop, ward/stake president, or President of the LDS religion isn't paid? Then do the Bishops or stake presidents have regular jobs during the week and facilitate church on the weekend? Maybe I am adding too many people into that pot. I would assume that the President of the religion gets some kind of compensation.
DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

04/01/2008 5:49 PM Alert 
Okay, another question that luv the copa said. So, each sunday service consists of members talking about ??? what's in the manual or what they want to talk about? Members work on the manual lessons when you break up into groups (men, women, youth)?
sewfunUser is Offline

Posts:28

04/01/2008 7:43 PM Alert 

It is true that both our bishops and stake presidents are not paid and have full-time jobs during the week.  They spend many nights during the week helping to facilitate church activities, as well as meeting with memebers in need.  The president of the Church does not have a full-time job.  This is because his duties as President of the Church are a full-time job.  He does receive a stipend from the Church to cover his living expenses.  He often travels extensively across the World and holds meetings all over the United States.

I don't think that our Bishops are quick to point out any flaws in another religion.  While our classes for women, men, children, and youth do cover a set "curriculum,"  there is always room to teach about whay may be of most importance to a particular audience.

DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

04/01/2008 8:36 PM Alert 
Sorry, again maybe "flaw" was the wrong word. I just wanted to know if LDS church leadership saw this as something that set them apart from other religions; the fact that you could walk into any LDS church and know that this curriculum was being taught at other LDS churchs too.

However, thanks for the clarification and explanation of my original post.
love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:476

04/01/2008 8:38 PM Alert 
Sorry, I worded that part poorly.

No one sees it as a flaw that other churches teach what they choose to teach for the week.

During Sacrament meeting (the main meeting) the speaker will talk on an assigned topic. The bishop and his counselors decide together what that topic will be, with the bishop having the final say. The topics are usually: faith, service, the sacrament, the atonement, charity, etc, etc, etc, My mom was just asked to give a talk on happiness in her ward. There is no manual for sacrament mtg - most people reference the scriptures, church publications (magazines which contain addresses by the general authorities and prophet), and personal experiences. The bishop is to step in IF what is being said is not doctrinal. I have never seen this happen.

After Sacrament we split into other classes. 1st we have Sunday school, which consists of study of the scriptures (Gospel Doctrine) this year is the Book of Mormon, but we alternate through the NT, OT and Doctrine and Covenants as well. If you don't go to Gospel Doctrine, wards also offer Gospel Principles (or Essentials) where the church basics are taught. I personally go there - but it is generally meant for new members and investigators. Our ward is really big and Gospel Principles is a smaller group - so I attend there

Following Sunday school we split into men, women. The youth are also divided by gender. The children 3-11 attend primary for 2 hrs, one of which is small class, and one of hr of a larger class with singing and a small lesson.

Everything EXCEPT sacrament mtg is taught via a manual. The lessons are outlined, scripture references are included. Group discussions are encouraged between teacher and class. The teachers are to lead the discussion as the spirit tells them is more appropriate. So when there is a lesson on service, you can end up with a lesson on serving ward members or on serving in the community or within the family, etc. BUT every ward should be having the same lesson, on the same week (or very close to that.)

DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

04/01/2008 8:48 PM Alert 
Ok, well that makes sense.

I guess when we break up into smaller groups for church, we usually go through a Bible study book or curriculum--just not the same one. So that is an interesting concept that LDS has.

Could you just opt to go to the sacrament meeting and nothing else? If you didn't want to split into a class, would that be permitted?
CyndiWitczakUser is Offline

Posts:211

04/01/2008 9:14 PM Alert 
I don't know about the LDS practices, but the Catholic Church around the world has the same readings every day all over the world. You can go to Chile and hear the same readings they have in Poland or at the Vatican.

Yes, that's really my name
love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:476

04/01/2008 9:41 PM Alert 
You CAN opt out of just about anything, but most of the time if you choose to not go to the mtgs other than sacrament (unless you have work get in the way, or health problems, or legitimate reason other than Sunday nap) you are not going to be "attending all your mtgs" which is something we are asked to do.

One of the things to realize is in the LDS faith, we are taught EVERYTHING is a choice. With every choice there is a consequence. Perhaps not attending more than an hr of church will not affect your standing in the church, but we believe it will affect you spiritually. A person who cannot go to church will obviously not be affected as much spiritually as the person who chooses to not attend.

The questions of what is permitted are always sticky to me, because you are always permitted to break a commandment, or a suggestion, or whatever. . .

Anyway, generally speaking a person who chooses to attend sacrament only on a regular basis with no other reason than they don't want to attend the other mtgs is not going to be considered as active as a person who is attending all three hrs. . . of course, I would expect it to be the same in any other church.
DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

04/01/2008 10:06 PM Alert 
Very good.

Thanks for the info.
RichTigUser is Offline

Posts:0

04/02/2008 1:38 PM Alert 

BIG LOVE, baby.

moinmoinUser is Offline

Posts:394


04/02/2008 1:49 PM Alert 
Excellent posts by all involved (well, maybe not Richtig's!)

Another way LDS might be considered "the same" everywhere is that we are expected to attend the ward we geographically live in. As has been said, everything is a choice, and no one will physically force you to attend your ward, but your membership records reside in your ward, and you are required to attend and be active in your ward to be considered an active member.

Catholics are similar, I think (parishes and diocese). Outside of that, most other Christians I know do kind of "church shop" and try to find a church or congregation that suits them, and are free to attend whichever church they want, even if there is more than one Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian church in their city. That is, a Baptist doesn't have to attend the Baptist church that is geographically in their area, he or she could go to a further away one that he or she likes better.
RichTigUser is Offline

Posts:0

04/02/2008 4:53 PM Alert 

Sometimes I post, just to annoy or get a rise out of people, but this is an actual question. 

Do you, as Mormons, believe that polygamy is bad or do you just 'go along with it as bad' because its against the law?

As I understand it, polygamy was the norm, but the church disavowed it, becasue it is illegal.

So, what came 1st?  The law against or the church coming out against it?

DaybyDayUser is Offline

Posts:257

04/02/2008 6:06 PM Alert 
I could see a benefit in having to attend a ward in your geographical location. There is a sense of community because you would see one another at church and [likely] around town as well. I can also see a positive in having a curriculum that is studied by all the LDS communities across the country because well, you would be on the same page- literally! I may not agree with the theology of the LDS church, which is not what we are discussing here, but I can see the benefit of having these two practices in place.
luv the copaUser is Offline

Posts:175


04/02/2008 9:36 PM Alert 
Rich, your avatar just freaks me out every time I see it! I won't even ask where you found it.....LOL :o)

Changing lives one diaper at a time since 1993.
Trecia
RichTigUser is Offline

Posts:0

04/03/2008 6:00 AM Alert 

You don't like Da Vinci?  More of a Renoir fan?

love@hmUser is Offline

Posts:476

04/03/2008 8:14 AM Alert 

Do you, as Mormons, believe that polygamy is bad or do you just 'go along with it as bad' because its against the law?

As I understand it, polygamy was the norm. . .

I can't answer all your questions, but I can attempt stuff that isn't related to history

Normal?
Plural marriage was normal in the sense that it was accepted as a commandment of God for certain people.  But the % of members actually practicing plural marriage was fairly low  or lower than perceived. . . (OK, I don't have numbers off the top of my head, and I don't want to go look them up.) 

Legal?
Plural marriage is no longer practiced because revelation deemed it no longer necessary, and we were then commanded to follow the laws of the land.  I BELIEVE it was illegal at the start (in Illinois) but don't quote me on that  HOWEVER, if God had said differently - you can bet the practice would be different. 

BAD?
You are likely to get different answers from different members on this topic.  Is it BAD - well, at this time, YES.  We do not practice it, and we have been commanded to not practice it in our earthly existence.  People within the church who do practice it are generally excommunicated.  I have not known of a case that ended differently.

Has there been a time and a place for it - YES.  It was practiced in Abrahamic times as well.    We believe it will be practiced by some in the afterlife.  I have not met a single person male of female that says they "can't wait!"  Most say they don't understand it, that the idea is foreign. 

I have known of some women (do not know them personally, other than online) who have asked their husbands to NOT get sealed to a second wife if they die.  At the moment, following the death of a spouse a man can be sealed to his second wife.  In some cases, pending a lot of paperwork, time, effort, and letters from the ex-wife, a man can be sealed to his 2nd wife following divorce W/O a sealing cancellation for the 1st sealing. . . keep in mind a sealing canNOT happen w/o a legal marriage, however it is not cancelled with divorce or death.  We believe the sealing is what links us when we die - so it is very important - and relevant to this conversation.

I have received some, quite frankly, unexpected, personal revelation on the subject.  I was not looking for an answer, but I feel I received one.  When I was reading my scriptures one day and read concerning some BOM people taking wives - I realized it would have been fitting, or normal for them to take more than one.  As I was thinking about this, I started to think about all the difficulties that would come with this situation.  REALLY have you EVER heard people excited to live plural marriage?  With it comes jealousy, etc.  It would be so hard!  As a woman I would wonder what my husband does with his other wife, why he spends so much time with her, etc - as a man, I imagine the thought of keeping the bickering women happy would be exhausting, not to mention the thought of how to support such a large household. . .

Well, my thoughts were running through the difficulties and I suddenly realized, these difficulties ALL stemmed from selfishness.  The thought came, that a man can love more than one wife in the same way a mother can love more than one child.  (this was my personal revelation, which means it had to be related to how I could understand) 

It made sense.  Does it mean I am suddenly ready to live plural marriage.  NO!  I am far from selfLESS enough to share my husband, and he swears to me I am difficult enough for him, that he doesn't want to share any more of his time with another wife!  Does it make it easier to understand?  A bit.  

So is it BAD - Yes and no!  It is simply not the right time.  It really has nothing to do with what's legal and what isn't.  If God wanted it practiced it would be - by which ever religion God is speaking to   But it wasn't bad for those who followed God's commandment - even when it was the most difficult thing for them to do.  AND when it is time that it is practiced again, it will not be bad then either - OF course, by then, those practicing will have their selfish desires, and feelings of jealousy wiped away - I think I prefer it THAT way, and I am really glad I'm not practicing it now!

EEEUser is Offline

Posts:374


04/03/2008 9:08 AM Alert 
Posted By love@hm on 04/03/2008 8:14 AM

Legal?
Plural marriage is no longer practiced because revelation deemed it no longer necessary, and we were then commanded to follow the laws of the land.  I BELIEVE it was illegal at the start (in Illinois) but don't quote me on that  HOWEVER, if God had said differently - you can bet the practice would be different. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God didn't reveal to Joseph Smith that having more than one wife was ok and then less than a hundred years later reavel to another person that polygamy should stop.  

 

How about the command in the New Testament

 

Tit 1:6  If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

 

This should be another wake up call for the Mormons they are following a horny disillusional false prophet.


Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/
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