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| | Author | Messages | |
JillyBean
Posts:375
 | | 08/21/2007 11:10 PM |
 Alert | http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070822/D8R5QR1G1.html
I've never heard of labs or chows doing anything like this.. | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
| | Ratboy
Posts:0
| | 08/21/2007 11:41 PM |
Alert | | I have heard of chihuahuas that have done this. Sad really sad | | | |
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| | Tempting Fait1
Posts:728
| | 08/22/2007 6:37 AM |
Alert | This sounds like another case of irresponsible reporting to me, incomplete at the least.
There was a time they wanted to put all collies down as viscious, then it was german shepards, then dobermans and rotwielers, now it's pits. Some places it's against the law to own a pit bull, unless they are bred and trained for fighting and attack pits are a really sweet and loving dog.
Stories like this one just totally piss me off!! They don't wait to get all the information, they take what was called into 911 and run with it. There is much more to the story then this. | |
The red head is BACK!! (and still mouthy)
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| | alanf
Posts:1462
| | 08/22/2007 7:42 AM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 08/21/2007 11:10 PM
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070822/D8R5QR1G1.html
I've never heard of labs or chows doing anything like this..
Thanks for being an irresponsible poster by threading irresponsible reporting. Do you think we should exterminate the breed JillyBean?
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| | Ghost_of_tjtellez_past
Posts:0
| | 08/22/2007 8:55 AM |
Alert | | For once Alan I agree with you. | | | |
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| | alanf
Posts:1462
| |  | JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 08/22/2007 11:04 AM |
Alert | I'm involved in breed specific legislation.. and I'm not a fan of pitbulls.. I've met ONE in my entire life that was nice.
http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1367673.html
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
Scroll down to the "Dog most responsible" in the fatalities part
The dogs that are most responsible
Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.
According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:
If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.
| |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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| | alanf
Posts:1462
| | 08/22/2007 12:35 PM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 08/22/2007 11:04 AM I'm involved in breed specific legislation.. and I'm not a fan of pitbulls.. I've met ONE in my entire life that was nice. http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1367673.html http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html Scroll down to the "Dog most responsible" in the fatalities part The dogs that are most responsible
Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.
According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:
If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.
So what was the point of your post. Do you think we should exterminate the Pit Bulls & Rotties? What about Chows? Less people have them, but if you stick your finger in an eye, you'll get bit! Your post is useless, as are breed specific laws and all people that support them. Pure ignorance. That is all.... | | | |
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| | Tigg
Posts:549
| | 08/22/2007 12:40 PM |
Alert | Repeatedly in that article is the qulification of bites/attacks "included in the study." What this tells me is that they had some sort of non-random selection in the bites they chose to include in the study, which makes their statistics very suspect. Unless I knew exactly how they chose which bites were included and which were not, I would not put even the slightest bit of faith in a study such as the one that you posted.
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| | demonica
Posts:850
| | 08/22/2007 2:37 PM |
Alert | | gee, people who are bitten by pits and rotts tend to have more severe injuries than people who are bitten my shih tzus and chis. whooda thunk it? wonder how much they spent on that research study. i have no respect for anyone who supports breed specific legislation. sorry, but that's just the way it is. if you look at stats on ALL dog bites, chis and other small dogs bite much more often than large breeds. difference is, most of us would be humiliated to go to the ER with a poodle bite. i have been dog bit twice in my life, once by a golden mix and once by a lab. in fairness to the dogs in question, both bites were accidental. never by the pits, rotts, dobies, etc., i have chosen to surround myself with primarily. | | | |
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| | demonica
Posts:850
| | 08/22/2007 2:41 PM |
Alert | | BTW, while for centuries, pits have been bred to be aggressive towards other animals, they have specifically had aggression towards humans bred out of them. there was a very practical reason for this. in a dog pit, there are 2 dogs and 3 humans in the ring during the entire fight. each dog has a handler, and there's a ref. throughout the fight, the handlers are constantly grabbing their dogs and pulling them apart. PIT BULLS HAVE BEEN SPECIFICALLY BRED NOT TO BITE THEIR HANDLERS. any fighting dog the showed human aggression was immediately put down. yes, a specific pit can be trained by unscrupulous people to be a guard dog and to attack humans. so can a chihuahua, or a poodle, or a lab. people who make sweeping statements without having done the proper research piss me off. | | | |
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| | Pet Social Worker
Posts:0
| | 08/22/2007 3:02 PM |
Alert | To be completely honest, I'm not sure exactly what I believe or don't on the subject of breed specific legislation. I personally have met no Pit's that I thought to be aggressive in any way.
I see about 20 or so purebred pits & pit mixes regularly for customers of mine. All are sweet in nature and as friendly as can be. Now with that said, it is unlikely that I'd ever bring my 3 year old with me to those jobs (or any other w/ other breeds) or would I let any of my staff walk into a home of a Pit alone without meeting the dogs first.
Edited to add: I have been bitten by a Chow and personally am more anxious around Chows & German Shepards than I have ever been around Pit's.
Jilly - so does this mean you won't want to sleep over w/ a couple of sweet Pit's in RED anytime soon? <img src='http://www.85239.com/desktopmodules/ntforums/images/emoticons/wink.gif' height='20' width='20' border='0' title='Wink' align='absmiddle'> | | | |
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| | lmreynol
Posts:17
| | 08/22/2007 11:48 PM |
Alert | I'm going to try to "stay out of it", and go lightly in reply to this posting, for I know ignorance in this subject matter is high and education is the best cure. So let me try a little education. First off...have you ever taken a stats class and passed it? What did you learn? Yes...that stats can be made to prove or disporve just about anything simply by tweaking the data a bit to obtain one's own outcome. But since you want stats...how about this...according to the ATTS (American Temperament Test Society, Inc.) as of December 06', Rottis were the most tested dogs,so much so the next highly tested breed was nearly half of their number, and despite Rottis getting such a larger margin of room for faulty dogs thru the sheer # tested, of the 4744 that were tested, 3923 of them passed the temperment test. That is 82.7% while the beloved Chow Chow only had 89 dogs tested and they only faired a 69.7% pass rate. Hmm Anyhing I would bank someones welfare on ....probably not...but it also sows us something else...that unfortunatly in the past Rottis and other such breeds got such bad rap due to poor ownership and their ability to do their owners bidding and do it well, and unfortunatly their owners bidding was usually to be aggressive. So in please humans, we labeled them as dangerous breeds. (I will agree the stronger/larger the breed, the more capable it is of inflicting worse damage when it so desiers, but no study is needed for that, just commen sense. Also your quotes studys mention of bite backgroun and such...let me say this..the average idiot is still smart enough to claim any reported incident is the "first time ever from an always loving dog" simply because it looks soo much better when they have to go to court. Who with anything above a 8th grade education would admit to authorities investigation a viscious dog attack "oh yeah hes gone off and bit a few ppl in the family and some neighbor kids but we never thought it would go this far"? Yeah excatly....In my mind...information gathered from worthless dog owners is in itself, worthless info. Oh yeah here are a few more temperment pass ratios ...Chihuahua=71.4%, Corgi = 76.3%, dachshund = 66.7%, Italian Greyhound=76.9%, Lhasa Apso= 69.2%, Pomerianian= 75%, I could go on...but you get the point and no breed specific legislation for any of those breeds...hmmm but stats prove they are less prone to passing a temperment test...and from a valid organization to boot.
Oh and another point. I would be willing to bet $ the typical dog owner..heck even the typical pit bull owner would have a hard time identifying either the bitt bull terrior or staffordshire terrior out of a line up of other full blooded pure breed dogs....don't believe me...how about anyone reading this go to the follow web site, read the factual info, and then take the "Can you spot a pit bull test" then post how many dogs you click on until you find the right one. Nowafter we see the test results you'll notice most people make assumptions, guesstimate, and stereotype. I use to breed and show rottis, I have seen many a people try to pass of dogs that were clearly not Rottis as Rotis. Or at the dog park...I have seen people ask owners of large black dogs with tan markings if it was a rotti....The German Bloodline is very strong...if you took time to study canine genetics (which by the way I have as well as have taken classes on it) you would find it typically a dominate gene. thus...the black and tan markings of the german shephard, Rottweiller, and doberman pincher are pretty much all very similiar color markings, thus ANY mutt with a trace of the german bloodline form any of these beeds is likely to be a med-large dog with black and tan markings. So people dont describe it as such when talking to ACO people or the police department, they just say the first word that comes to mind...Rotti, or Pitt Bull. when a majority of the time, when a follow up study is done and genetic test are done, it is proven not to be those breeds. I spent two weeks in New Orleans right after Katrina doing animal search and rescue. 90%+ of those dogs were uncut male fighting dogs. I was there for several weeks leading an aggresive canine unit. I was in charge of several Animal Conrol offices from around the counrty...and vet techs who would run the reports of the dogs we brought back. Y uwould be shocked at how frequently they mis idenified a breed. Both the ACO's and vet techs. They do the best they can and guess. but legislation should not be imposed upon peoples guessing. It takes the black and white out of the legal structure and thus it no longer has structure.
Like I said...I am just starting. I have done more than enought research, I have a solid enough background to speak with authority on this subject, and I will spare all the time consuming ranting and raving I could put down. It just upsets me to see blind mob mentality, especially when it effect other and the things they love and care for. Take off your blinders.
Do we need better dog education in this country? yes...were most of the reported bites prevetable? yes, are larger breeds more able to inflict damage? yes but then you would have to target dog by a combination of average size and jaw compression strength, and not by breed....since there is such a problem in correctly identifying breeds for he sake of accurate statistical analasys. hmm not as easy as just pointing the finger at rottis and pitss and such is it...Trust me, there are pure breed clubs out there lobbying to keep their breeds OFF the AKC registry list for reasons such as this...Once a breed is "popular" all the idiots go buy them, mis breed them for porfit thus messing up temperment and bloodline causing major problems (just lood at german Shephard and Dalmations, thanks to Disney for indireclty messing up an entire breedbloodline with 101 dalmations)
Please feel free to reply,retort, or ask more questions if you wish...
BTW the link for the "can you sot the pitt bull " game is here...
http://www.pbrc.net/poppysplace/games/AdultFindabull/findpitbull_v4.html
here is a similiar link:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
and let me leave you with a quote from Dr. Julie Gilchrist, of the Centers for Disease Control Injury Center, Atlanta, Georgia
“We learned breed-specific legislation is not the way to tackle the issue of dog bites. Instead, we should look at the people with those dogs responsible for the bites.”
Sorry for my rant but its a colse to home subject.
Of those who say nothing, few are slient.... | | | |
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| | demonica
Posts:850
| | 08/23/2007 4:51 PM |
Alert | while trying to keep myself calm while posting yesterday, i forgot one of my very important points, which reading imreynol's post reminded me of:
there is no such breed as a pit bull
the term pit bull encompasses a number of different dog breeds, foremost amongst these being the staffordshire terrier, the american staffordshire terrier (amstaff) and the american pit bull terrier. there are many other breeds and breed mixes that are commonly mistaken for the dreaded "pit bulls". so exactly what breed of dog are your breed specific legislations supposed to ban??? | | | |
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| | JennyPStefanow
Posts:165
| | 08/23/2007 5:10 PM |
Alert | Oh boy. Touchy subject. I should stay out of it...
But for one, I partially agree with PSW. I've "dog sat" for a pit bull, and she was the sweetest dog you'd ever want to meet. She didn't even "know" me - I was just a neighbor at the time who volunteered to help out. But she was a sweetie!
I do agree with Imreynol. I had to take a statistics course in college (even though I was a Secondary Ed./English/Biology major, we had to take some sort of math). I distinctly remember our professor showing us in detail how statistics can be manipulated.
Three...and how I wish I had the link...there is such a breed as an American Pit Bull Terrier. But most people can't identify them correctly. I took the quiz, and barely passed. It may have been from the ASPCA or Humane Society. All I recall is, it came in an email. I think. When I read it and took the quiz, it was early in the morning, so I'm fuzzy on the details. Heck, it might have been a link on here. It was a while back.
As a runner, if I see a dog that looks like a pit bull, even on leash, will I cross the street (or at least use the bike lane)? Yes. But it's because of only 20% fear (I was bitten by a doberman while biking once - in Pa - who was off leash, but with his owner), and 80% courtesy to the dog/owner. And I'll do that for other breeds, too, that don't look anything like a pit bull.
Finally, I don't think there should be any legislation against ANY breed of dog. There SHOULD be more stringent laws against irresponsible breeders/owners. IMO, of course.
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<---Look, Ma! I sit, I stay, I match the carpet! | |
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| | demonica
Posts:850
| | 08/23/2007 5:18 PM |
Alert | | BTW, thank you imreynol for all the good info you posted here! | | | |
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| | JennyPStefanow
Posts:165
| | 08/23/2007 5:19 PM |
Alert | | Oh geez! I didn't read all of Imreynol's post before venting. Bad Jenny, bad Jenny! I'll have to try that link and see if it's the same test I took. *blush* | |
<---Look, Ma! I sit, I stay, I match the carpet! | |
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| | JennyPStefanow
Posts:165
| | 08/23/2007 5:22 PM |
Alert | | Different site, same pics. Thank you for posting that link! *smile* | |
<---Look, Ma! I sit, I stay, I match the carpet! | |
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| | demonica
Posts:850
| | 08/23/2007 5:27 PM |
Alert | i found the AMPBT in 3 tries, not bad, but i am the owner of 1 3/4 pits.
not sure if i missed this in your posting, but how many tries did it take you to "find the pit" imreynol? | | | |
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| | Tigg
Posts:549
| | 08/23/2007 6:16 PM |
Alert | I found the pit in 3 tries, but it was more of a guess than anything, there were some that I knew weren't Pits but there were many that I didn't have a clue about. I make no claim to know what breed most dogs are!
Then I went through again and clicked on all of them just to see what they were. I've never heard of many of those breeds. | | | |
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