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| | Author | Messages | |
Denna
Posts:0
 | | 11/20/2007 6:15 PM |
 Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Fritzydoodle on 11/20/2007 4:59 PM
Denna:
Does anything make you happy to be in Maricopa? Obviously, you are better than the rest of us cow people.
My suggestion is for you to purchase all the offensive businesses and properties in the area and turn them into establishments more suited to the snobbish people of the world, yourself included.
Oh...wait. You bought in Maricopa for a reason. Could it be because housing was CHEAP?
Are you the way you are because you are frustrated and bitter because on paper you lost a lot of money that in reality you didn't have?
Do you really believe it is the government's responsibility to provide everything to your liking? Does the term FREE ENTERPRISE mean anything? Jeesh. </div>
Well anyone here who is claiming to like the cows and their smell... perhaps I am a bit more cultured than that. I don't think anything I am saying here is unreasonable. I think most people who understand real estate and property valuations understand what I am talking about. Other people on these forums have expressed views about Maricopa being a "ghetto", agreed about the medians, commented on the new gangs and crime, and many many have discussed the terrible traffic. The fact that I put everything together, combining them, perhaps makes the message sound stronger and more... disappointed.
For the record, I moved here three years ago. I bought my first Maricopa house at that time. I bought my second house last November. I sold my first house this past March for $50,000 more than I paid for it, but still $50k less than others same models sold for at the peak. I actually got lucky compared to a lot of people. I bought a Greystone originally that was an amazing value for the money. The house I am in now is more than twice as big.
On paper, I haven't even lost anything because I bought during a down cycle. However, I can't say the same for people just a few streets over who paid over $300k for houses just over 2000 sq/ft. I feel for them. I saw a house my same model with a bank owned sign on it... the owners had painted one room blue with little snowmen and another room pink with little hearts and stars. They had put a pool in their back yard. Someone's broken dream.
Like it or not, many of our fellow Maricopans are falling apart because the city is being mismanaged. They aren't fixing up the town, and they are allowing too much new home construction, especially during this housing market. I've been quiet for three years patiently waiting for things to change. However, I find nothing wrong with sharing the faults of our community with others. Especially when they are blatant faults.
I am not embarassed to live here. I've invested a lot of money into this house which would suggest I am here for the long haul. In three years the city itself has done nothing for the people who live here to make it better... at least nothing I can clearly point out. Per many other posters, even this lovely road construction is only attributed to ADOT doing their job, not the city taking an active role in our degraded highway.
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| | Denna
Posts:0
| | 11/20/2007 6:24 PM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Java Lover on 11/20/2007 5:43 PM
I think the point is, we all knew what we were getting into when we moved here. No we are not complacent, there are a whole lot of people that are out there doing something, whether it's being involved in parks and rec, opening a business, serving on some other board or commission.
Point is get involved. Don't just get pissed off and then start complaining and dragging people down who have been here a lot longer then you or those that are happy.
Be the change you see in the world.
</div>
How long have you been here Javaman? Can you please point out what the city has done to benefit the people of Maricopa and help stablize property values. Maricopa is now the cheapest place to live in all the valley and still we can't get people to move here. If my realtor took me into a town that took me 60 minutes of traffic to get to, I would say, "Take me somewhere else... Anywhere else." Traffic does cost home sales.
Someone just put up a sign for new homes for $119k. I feel for the people who bought their 1500 sq.ft homes for > $200k. It may take 5-10 years for them to break even. How many new home sites have been zoned/approved by city management in the past six months? Did anyone plan a second major 4 lane street running parallel with the 347? When? I've been here 3 years and it hasn't been started. They've put up a ton of new homes in the space where a second street would have made sense.
It isn't all Maricopa's fault, some of it is the economy and the bad housing market/mortgage crisis. But there is more to it. | | | |
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| | Fritzydoodle
Posts:979
| | 11/20/2007 8:09 PM |
Alert | Let's look at it from the other side of the fence for a moment:
How many new home sites have been zoned/approved by city management in the past six months? If you purchased a parcel of land as a developer, what would be your reaction if a city denied you the right to develop the land that you paid for? You would sue them for hindering their ability to make money on their investment. Same way on the home you bought in Maricopa. What would your reaction be if someone, under the guise of managed development, told you you couldn't sell your home this year because there are too many homes currently available? You'd be screaming about how your rights are being trampled. Government, whether it is city, county, state or federal can not regulate what you can and can not do with your possession (ie your land) beyond zoning. You can't have it both ways. It isn't up to P&Z to decide who gets to develop and where. The only decision to be made is - is it lawful. Lawful and wanted/needed are two different topics.
Did anyone plan a second major 4 lane street running parallel with the 347? When? I've been here 3 years and it hasn't been started. I'm glad you've been here three years and nothing has been done. I've been here since 1981 and nothing has been done to add an alternative route. Why? Because the land surrounding Maricopa to the north is reservation. You can not decide to build anything on someone else's property. And that land is owned by the Gila River Indian Community - a sovereign nation not subject to US Laws and possible condemnation. GRIC negotiated decades ago regarding I-10 and were basically screwed over by the US Government. What incentive is there for them to give up part of THEIR land for our convenience? None that I see.
There was a recent announcement that GRIC was negotiating with the Fed DOT to widen I-10 through the reservation between Phx and Casa Grande in exchange for exits. IF that works to their advantage, they might be willing to talk to Pinal and Maricopa Counties along with AZ DOT regarding SR347.
SR347 (formerly known as Maricopa Road) was originally a two lane road. This was a road that had many dips that would flood. The road was destroyed in the flood of 1983 and rebuilt. Several years later -after LOTS of negotiation regarding right of way, the road was approved as a four lane highway. Now the problem was funding. A bond was passed to replace the road. I haven't heard a THANK YOU from you and all the other people who use Maricopa Road.
Why do I say that snidely? BECAUSE I'M STILL PAYING THE BOND - NOT YOU! Those of us who were landowners back when the bond was passed are still paying for the Maricopa Road Improvement Fund. NONE of the new development is paying that item on your property tax. Is that fair? Just think - if all of the new homes were paying the $$ the original property owners are paying, funding for road improvement would be available. But for whatever reason, the developers got out of paying that one to the county.
My point Denna - government can not and should not control private property and private business. If you don't like a manufactured home sales lot on the main road, there is nothing the city council can and should do about it. That business bought that land long before the city was incorporated. I'm sure if someone waved a check with enough zero's on it in front of their face - they'd relocate. Until then, it is their property to do with as they see fit as long as it is legal. Same goes for the feed lots, 'old business buildings' or ghetto houses. Until someone else buys them - there isn't anything to force them out.
Thank God for our Constitution to protect from overzealous intentions. | |
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| | Lano
Posts:275
| | 11/20/2007 8:16 PM |
Alert | | I'm guessing Java Lover probably won't have an answer for that, because they have'nt done anything to stabalize our home values. They do however have an affinity for the homebuilders however. I've been frustrated because you hear the same B.S. from this crew...."prime the pump"...."trying to squeeze 15 years into 5"......this is an ADOT problem, or a Gila River problem", on and on. It's to the point where I can read the headline of a story, and I can tell you what the city officials quote is going to be, and how the story will end. They're always in "open talks", without anything firm. I hope when we shuffle the deck things will change. | | | |
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| | garden glow
Posts:698
| | 11/20/2007 8:34 PM |
Alert | | Couldn't have said it better Java............ | |
ANYONE HOME?
Residential Yard Clean-ups and Maintenance
for more info go to the
Business Section under Landscaping-Maintenance
Click Here for our website. | |
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| | mrwonderful
Posts:257
| | 11/20/2007 8:39 PM |
Alert | | Denna: If your course of action is destruction of investments in this city please go away. Are you a relative of Will Dunn? Your actions portray him identically. Maui Wowi franchise should not recieve the crap you put out. You should declare your authenticity before the cease and decease action against 85239.com..... Unfortunately that is the way it will be conducted. | | | |
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|  | Lano
Posts:275
| | 11/20/2007 8:44 PM |
Alert | | Fritzy Doodle......we all know about ADOT and the GRIC. Let's hope that something can be worked out so that our community can move forward. Regarding that bond issue...I agree with you, that is not fair. | | | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 11/20/2007 8:46 PM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Lano on 11/20/2007 8:16 PM
I hope when we shuffle the deck things will change.
</div>
You are not alone in that hope. I honestly believe that our current leadership are good and decent people just aren't used to the idea that there are twenty-thousand of us in town now. It is a lot more difficult to run a city that has exploded in growth than it is to manage a small city in its incipient stages, when there are fewer people to placate!
Their tendency to favor homebuilders over citizens is a rather troubling phenomenon. My mind will forever be etched with the quote made by a certain member of our elected government (who shall remain nameless) who referred to business as the number one customer of Maricopa. I am as pro-business as anyone else, but local government is elected by and paid for by its citizens, and its citizens simply need to be priority one.
The issue here is to what extent the citizens are priority one. I am not of the belief that our local government needs to place our property values at the top of their priority list. I'm sorry, but government is here to preserve law and order, provide basic services, plan for future growth and manage existing issues, and maintain the physical welfare of city property (i.e. streets, city buildings, sewers, etc). To the extent that any of those things affect our property values, that's one thing. But going above and beyond that simply to increase our own wealth invites the sort of overzealous antics that Fritzydoodle referred to. I am absolutely not in favor of local government having the right to tear down my property simply because a pizza parlor would generate more revenue, or would increase the neighbors' home value.
I've been plenty critical of our elected leadership before, but there are points where I simply don't believe they can be blamed. And the situation with 347 is one of those. I understand anyone's frustration with hearing "It's an ADOT problem," or "It's a Gila River problem" over and over again, but that really isn't the cop-out it is made out to be. I believe 347 is the absolute limiting factor out here, and that providing an alternate route (not necessarily widening 347 itself) should be made a top priority. But that's far easier said than done...the hope would be that city leadership can find a method of sitting down with Gila River and ADOT and ascertaining whether there is some sort of mutually beneficial deal that can be arranged. I imagine this would cost us a pretty penny (Gila River is not going to give up their land for free, and the road itself wouldn't be cheap), but if there's a way to "prime the pump," this would be it.
The troubles in town are not going to be solved overnight, but they will get better. I'm firmly in the camp of the true believers here, and if that makes me sound crazy, then so be it. We can revisit that issue at a later date. :-)
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| | DesertDweller
Posts:2559
| | 11/20/2007 8:48 PM |
Alert | Wow. Amazes me who they will give a home loan to these days.
Denna, if you understood the current economic state, you would understand that the slump in the housing market is nationwide. Also, if you understood home values and what drives them, you would know that a home's value is determined by what someone is willing and able to pay for it, not how well the medians are landscaped.
Maricopa will develop and the medians will be pretty and the trains will be quieter and that ugly old manufactured home dealer will go away. All of the section 8 people will move away and really nice, successful Yuppie type pretty people will move in. Only cars that don't leak oil will grace the Maricopa streets. Sheeesh!
You don't need Paradise Valley or Beverly Hills. You need Pleasantville.
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Stupid should hurt!
Desert Dweller - Senior Member - Posts: 2982 - Joined: Feb 2006 | |
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| | Fritzydoodle
Posts:979
| | 11/20/2007 8:57 PM |
Alert | Only cars that don't leak oil will grace the Maricopa streets.
DD - my Mercedes leaks like a sieve! If it stops leaking, I know it's time to check the oil  | |
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| | Denna
Posts:0
| | 11/20/2007 9:09 PM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By mrwonderful on 11/20/2007 8:39 PM
Denna: If your course of action is destruction of investments in this city please go away. Are you a relative of Will Dunn? Your actions portray him identically. Maui Wowi franchise should not recieve the crap you put out. You should declare your authenticity before the cease and decease action against 85239.com..... Unfortunately that is the way it will be conducted. </div>
This is ridiculous. I am not against this web site. I am not against Mowi Wowi. In fact, the only thing I ever said about Wowi was a clearly silly remark about the coffee being $5 a cup (which wasn't even the punchline) and the owner chose to threaten me with legal action... which I posted. You sound a lot like him actually. Your writing styles are identical.
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| | Denna
Posts:0
| | 11/20/2007 9:17 PM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By DesertDweller on 11/20/2007 8:48 PM
Wow. Amazes me who they will give a home loan to these days.
Denna, if you understood the current economic state, you would understand that the slump in the housing market is nationwide. Also, if you understood home values and what drives them, you would know that a home's value is determined by what someone is willing and able to pay for it, not how well the medians are landscaped.
Maricopa will develop and the medians will be pretty and the trains will be quieter and that ugly old manufactured home dealer will go away. All of the section 8 people will move away and really nice, successful Yuppie type pretty people will move in. Only cars that don't leak oil will grace the Maricopa streets. Sheeesh!
You don't need Paradise Valley or Beverly Hills. You need Pleasantville.
</div>
Yes all those things are so unrealistic for a city. Nice medians. Fewer or rerouted trains or a way to commute over or under them uninterrupted. An alternate way to navigate through town. Wow. I guess I am shooting for the stars. The only place that exists is in Pleasantville.
By the way, any realtor worth their salt will tell you that the worst hit areas are Maricopa and Queen Creek in this housing crunch. They are worse off than us really with no major interstate even close to the city. Yes it is a nationwide housing slump, but houses that sold for $250 are selling for $179 or even less. That is far worse than the national average percentagewise.
By the way folks, there is something called eminent domain. The government can take land for the good of the people. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one." If they took my house I would be fine with it as long as I got a fair price. I don't see how they are going to do this train overpass they are promising without taking out some buildings in the process. | | | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 11/20/2007 9:38 PM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Denna on 11/20/2007 9:17 PM
Yes all those things are so unrealistic for a city. Nice medians. Fewer or rerouted trains or a way to commute over or under them uninterrupted. An alternate way to navigate through town. Wow. I guess I am shooting for the stars. The only place that exists is in Pleasantville.
By the way, any realtor worth their salt will tell you that the worst hit areas are Maricopa and Queen Creek in this housing crunch. They are worse off than us really with no major interstate even close to the city. Yes it is a nationwide housing slump, but houses that sold for $250 are selling for $179 or even less. That is far worse than the national average percentagewise.
</div>
What you are asking for is unrealistic in this town at this point in time. After creating a brand new municipal fire department and police department, the city right now has its hands full. As time progresses, I have no doubt that we will see landscaped medians (honestly, the fact that we are complaining about a patch of dirt in the center of a roadway shows how good our lives are in the grand scheme) and the like. Alternative routes through the city will come about through negotiations with our neighbors, since we cannot arbitrarily lay down pavement on sovereign Reservation land. As for the trains? A pipe dream. We live along a transcontinental rail line, and traffic will only increase. At some point it will be grade-separated, but that costs money, and would take cooperation with the railroad. Again, this isn't Denna's World, and we cannot merely "go it alone."
Any realtor worth his or her salt would be wrong to quote Maricopa and Queen Creek as the only locales to have suffered mightily in the current housing crunch. See also Buckeye, Goodyear, even Anthem for declines that mimic ours. What do they all have in common? They are far-flung locales that were once extremely overvalued for what they provided, pricing out many hard-working families who chose to sit out the market and wait for better (read: cheaper) days ahead. If you still don't believe it, go look at Las Vegas. They have been even harder hit by the decline than we have, partly because job growth in Nevada is not as strong as it is in Arizona. We are not alone in this by any stretch. | | | |
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| | twostep23
Posts:1688
| | 11/20/2007 9:38 PM |
Alert | Are you at the city council meetings voicing your opinions and concerns?
Are you at the parks & rec meetings voicing your opinions and concerns?
Are you at the traffic meetings voicing your opinions and concerns?
Are you at the planning and zoning committees meeting voicing your opinions and concerns?
Or applied to be on any of these committees or to volunteer for anything that will help make Maricopa what you think is lacking?
You've been here three years now what have you done to help change what obviously don't like so much?
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Senior Member
Posts: 4625
Joined: Feb 2006 | |
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| | Fritzydoodle
Posts:979
| | 11/20/2007 9:48 PM |
Alert | By the way folks, there is something called eminent domain. The government can take land for the good of the people. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one." If they took my house I would be fine with it as long as I got a fair price. I don't see how they are going to do this train overpass they are promising without taking out some buildings in the process.
Eminent domain only works for certain situations. Can you force the sale of various properties to build an overpass over the railroad? Yes. Can you force the sale of the manufactured home lot to build a shopping center? No.
My guess - they won't be building an overpass at 347. It would be too costly and inconvenient for several reasons including train delays. If I had to place a bet - I'd put my money on a bypass with overpass along Ralston or Porter.
Let me throw out a few scenarios you've suggested. Let's use ABC's Grill. People will agree he's a nice guy, donates to the community etc etc etc. Now we know he was losing money each month. In order to keep the business open - he needs a subsidy of about 15K per month. Should we use city tax dollars to keep him afloat? Ah... NO. It is a private business. He either makes it on his own or closes the doors. Why should I pay taxes to subsidize someone's business? My business turns a profit - are you going to give me a subsidy so I can increase my profits?
Or how about I bought a house in town for 300K. The market has turned and it's only worth $220K. With the increase in my ARM and property taxes at the FMV, I can't pay the mortgage and the house is going into foreclosure. Should the city bail me out and pay my mortgage for me? Ah... NO! You as a taxpayer are not going to support me because of a financial back turn I incurred. Or I bought my home paying way more than it is worth figuring the market was going to continue to increase thousands of dollars each month. Now it's worth 70K less than I paid for it and I need to sell to relocate. Is the city taxpayers going to give me that 70K so I can move elsewhere?
While your ideas are very altruistic, they aren't practical or reasonable. You want Utopia - you got Maricopa.
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| | Java Lover
Posts:0
| | 11/20/2007 10:26 PM |
Alert | Someone asked me a question and then someone else said I wouldn't have an answer. Well, I don't think I need to respond since it's already been answered.
Sorry I wasn't sitting here awaiting your inquiry, I was out tonight making a difference in my community. | | | |
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| | twostep23
Posts:1688
| | 11/20/2007 10:27 PM |
Alert | | You go Java.....you Rock!!!! | |
Senior Member
Posts: 4625
Joined: Feb 2006 | |
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| | Java Lover
Posts:0
| | 11/20/2007 10:35 PM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By twostep23 on 11/20/2007 10:27 PM
You go Java.....you Rock!!!!</div>
Not like MR. & Mrs. Clause! ;o)
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| | twostep23
Posts:1688
| | 11/20/2007 10:39 PM |
Alert | | hmmmmm...... | |
Senior Member
Posts: 4625
Joined: Feb 2006 | |
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| | alwaysamytoo
Posts:0
| | 11/21/2007 8:19 AM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Denna on 11/20/2007 9:09 PM
This is ridiculous. I am not against this web site. I am not against Mowi Wowi. In fact, the only thing I ever said about Wowi was a clearly silly remark about the coffee being $5 a cup (which wasn't even the punchline) and the owner chose to threaten me with legal action... which I posted. You sound a lot like him actually. Your writing styles are identical.
It was in your final line, and Maui Wowi is not a "Him" if you look at my name... It is a husband and wife and family, and now 7 wonderful Maricopa employees, quickly growing to 12. I know I will catch hell from CBJ for addressing this. I sent you the private message which was private and you chose to post. Why? I was clearly just stating a franchise facts. Not threatening you but trying to help you understand that what your stating is not just affecting us, it's a franchise, therefore other franchises could be (and one of our stores) was in fact threatened due to your post.
</div>
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