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| | Author | Messages | |
Sinbad
Posts:3053
 | | 11/06/2007 1:57 PM |
 Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Jason on 11/06/2007 12:59 PM
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>You know what Jason... Speeding is a Killer.. I am going to have to call you on this one.</div>
Speeding is not a killer. Going too fast for conditions is. If you're in the right lane going 65 and I'm approaching in the left lane, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you cut me off, I might hit you and it isn't speeding that is at fault.
We have so many distracted drivers and drivers that don't know what they're doing that you should be more worried when traffic is packed in at the speed limit. Close quarters are likely to cause horrific multi-vehicle accidents.
Speeding + some other idiocy = bad accidents
Not speeding + some other idiocy = still, bad accidents.
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Everyone should be worried about SPEEDING. People aren't Race car drivers and the 347 isn't NASCAR!.</div>
Strawman. I expected better from you. 80 is not even close to Nascar.
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Why don't you go pull up some status on this like you do everything else.</div>
I keep saying that I have! <i>Most</i> accidents occur below highway speeds. You're far more likely to get into an accident on city streets than you are with the cars going 10-15 MPH faster than you.
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>Most accidents are because some one TOOK THAT CHANCE. The chance that they could swing in front of another car and Sqeeze between another.</div>
That has nothing to do with speeding. I see people doing this at and below the speed limit. Quit confusing issues please.
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>If not speeding, What should people be worried about? Muti-tasking is the other problem on the 347...No one is paying attention. From the guy reading his notes for a meeting, to the lady that could have awoke 10 mins earlier to do her make-up!</div>
There you go! You are <b>far</b> more likely to be hit by someone that isn't paying attention. You think that car with a driver paying attention going by 15 MPH faster than you is suddenly going to swerve into your lane because they're going 15 MPH faster? No, the people that don't know what they are doing are the ones who are going to hit you.
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>come on Jason.. you're smarter than that....!!!</div>
I figured you were smarter than confusing issues like this.</div>
You are too funny. I like how you try to fold the truth like you are working with Time and Space. Let's just see you crash at 25 MPH and you Crash at 65 MPH.... and see how you WALK or Ride away from that accident. "It wasn't speed that made me crash, it was the Road conditions. Some how the road mand me crash, not the fact that I lost control or was speeding above the speed limit", Jason says as he is driven to the hosiptal.
you are so funny. Speed doesn't kill... You are right.. It's the impact of Going to fast that will kill you... not the speed!. | |
Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
______________________________________
***************************************
San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 11/06/2007 2:15 PM |
Alert | There are 5 intersections or roads that intersect with the 347 between Maricopa and I-10.
Casa Blanca Rd.
Dirt Road E. side of 347 across from M mtn. (goes into Reservation community)
Rinker entrance
Riggs Rd.
Firebird Raceway and Casino
2 of them even have stop lights Jason!
Thankfully I don't have to leave until 8:30, so I usually only hvae to stop at Riggs. All the rest can be analyzed from a distance to determine the level of hazard and approach speed, which is sometimes less than the speed limit. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 11/06/2007 2:18 PM |
Alert | You are too funny. I like how you try to fold the truth like you are working with Time and Space. Let's just see you crash at 25 MPH and you Crash at 65 MPH.... and see how you WALK or Ride away from that accident. "It wasn't speed that made me crash, it was the Road conditions. Some how the road mand me crash, not the fact that I lost control or was speeding above the speed limit", Jason says as he is driven to the hosiptal.
Now you're not even making sense. Follow me on this one:
You say I can crash at 25 MPH and walk away right? Then doesn't it follow that I can rear-end a car going 65 MPH while I'm going 90 and walk away? Basic physics. Yet the person going 90 is demonized. The people reading, texting, talking on the phone, eating, weaving, tailgating, drafting, etc. are all the people that are far more likely to crash into you Sinbad. Not the guy concentrating on the road going 75-80. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 11/06/2007 2:25 PM |
Alert | | Every time I've driven 65, I've been in danger of being rear-ended more often than when I drive at 75. So, how is 65 safer? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 11/06/2007 2:29 PM |
Alert | So if speed limits are the absolute maximum safest speed you can travel, anyone want to explain why the length between Maricopa Rd and I-10 is 55 but the length between Rinker and Riggs (a similar length) is 65? They are of practically the same design too.
Also care to explain then how speed limits get raised? It's not like the road magically changes over night. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | JasonY
Posts:3330
| | 11/06/2007 2:30 PM |
Alert | | People shouldn't tailgate. Period. Done. End of story. You rear end someone you are at fault. Look it up. One car length per 10 MPH (silly but in the books). I hate going 75MPH and people ride my rear in the right lane. | |
"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black | |
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|  | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 11/06/2007 2:31 PM |
Alert | You rear end someone you are at fault. Look it up.
This is not always true. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | anewman
Posts:670
| | 11/06/2007 2:33 PM |
Alert |
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>
Now you're not even making sense. Follow me on this one:
You say I can crash at 25 MPH and walk away right? Then doesn't it follow that I can rear-end a car going 65 MPH while I'm going 90 and walk away? Basic physics. Yet the person going 90 is demonized. The people reading, texting, talking on the phone, eating, weaving, tailgating, drafting, etc. are all the people that are far more likely to crash into you Sinbad. Not the guy concentrating on the road going 75-80.</div>
Umm.. no that is illogical thinking. Difference of the 2 cars is only 25 mph but the overall force is still significantly more.
A car going 65 mph and bumped at an additional 25 mph may loose control for only 1 second but 1 second at 65 mph the vehicle travels 95 feet. Compared to a car traveling 25 mph only travels 36 feet in 1 second.
This is a 59 ft per second difference and the vehicle traveling at 65 mph still has an overall force 2.6 times greater than the same vehicle at 25 mph.
59 ft per second differential & 2.6 x the force means the vehicle accident will have significantly different results.
You can check my math if you want.
65 x 5280 = 343200 ft per hour
343200 / 60 = 5720 ft per minute
5720 / 60 = 95.3 ft per second
25 x 5280 / 60 / 60 = 36.6 ft per second
Mass x Speed = Force
2500 x 65 = 162500
2500 x 25 = 62500
162500 / 62500 = 2.6 | |
"The jouney of life is as much in oneself' as the roads one travels"
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| | anewman
Posts:670
| | 11/06/2007 2:45 PM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Jason on 11/06/2007 2:29 PM
So if speed limits are the absolute maximum safest speed you can travel, anyone want to explain why the length between Maricopa Rd and I-10 is 55 but the length between Rinker and Riggs (a similar length) is 65? They are of practically the same design too.
Also care to explain then how speed limits get raised? It's not like the road magically changes over night.</div>
Which is Maricopa Rd.? The road that runs past the Casino and the race track?
If so simple:
You have 2 interchanges within a few miles. Speed limit is determined partially by ammount of traffic entering and exiting road way, likelihood of pedestrians, etc. Considering how traffic is directed after any event at the track or Casino it makes sense. Same as slowing traffic down at Rinker and before Maricopa.
I am sure it is in the link posted early for National Highway Safety.
| |
"The jouney of life is as much in oneself' as the roads one travels"
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| | JasonY
Posts:3330
| | 11/06/2007 2:49 PM |
Alert | | A person has much more time to react at 25-30 MPH than at 70-80 MPH. | |
"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black | |
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| | Rabbit
Posts:250
| | 11/06/2007 2:49 PM |
Alert | Also care to explain then how speed limits get raised? It's not like the road magically changes over night.
they do what ive heard called a "speed survey" and evaluate the road conditions, traffic conditions, etc, and decide on the prudent speeds. | |
"Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to. Then on the way out, slam the door." | |
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| | alanf
Posts:1582
| | 11/06/2007 3:02 PM |
Alert | | If you go to the link I posted, it'll explain alot about speed limit changes and the feds dropping the national 65MPH law. | | | |
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| | alanf
Posts:1582
| | 11/06/2007 3:03 PM |
Alert | But then again, Jason does not acknowledge information that disproves him  | | | |
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| | Rabbit
Posts:250
| | 11/06/2007 3:08 PM |
Alert | But then again, Jason does not acknowledge information that disproves him
lol. better be careful, hes gonna come back and post like 8 laws proving one thing or another.
just kidding jason, youre pretty alright. | |
"Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to. Then on the way out, slam the door." | |
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| | sdmphx777
Posts:0
| | 11/06/2007 3:18 PM |
Alert | Wow...I didn't expect this response. I guess my main concern was seeing an accident in the same place 3 days in a row. I will give you my take on what caused them without using physics or math and without knowing any details.
A car is doing 75-90 on the stretch from I-10 to Firebird/Maricopa Rd./Huhugam. A car coming off of Maricopa Rd./Firebird turns (left or right that doesn't matter) onto 347 and gets plowed. The reason? The person turning is not judging the oncoming traffic's speed accurately and you can't expect them to.
People are used to making right turns on roads where speed limits are much slower. In most areas of the Valley, the speed limit is no higher than 45. When you are used to oncoming traffic coming at 45mph-55mph on most roads it's hard to make a good decision to pull out when the car is really approaching at 75mph-90mph. I don't care what anyone says, it is not safe to go through an intersection at that speed.
The point of the matter is nobody patrols this strech of road that I've seen. The Arizona Highway Patrol has a responsibility to look after peoples public safety. By them not enforcing the laws traffic accidents will continue to happen and people will continue to be hurt or killed.
Alcohol is the cause of 41% of fatal crashes and speeding is the cause of 30% of fatal crashes. (source: NHTSA)
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| | caveman
Posts:1228
| | 11/06/2007 3:33 PM |
Alert | | sdmphx777 what makes you think the Highway Patrol should patrol the 347? They hardly patrol any major highway in Phoenix. You may have the expectation that they should patrol but the truth is their patrols on the 347 are no different than their patrols on every other major highway in the area. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 11/06/2007 3:59 PM |
Alert | Umm.. no that is illogical thinking. Difference of the 2 cars is only 25 mph but the overall force is still significantly more.
A car going 65 mph and bumped at an additional 25 mph may loose control for only 1 second but 1 second at 65 mph the vehicle travels 95 feet. Compared to a car traveling 25 mph only travels 36 feet in 1 second.
This is a 59 ft per second difference and the vehicle traveling at 65 mph still has an overall force 2.6 times greater than the same vehicle at 25 mph.
I do not dispute that a car going 65 or 90 exerts more force crashing into a stopped object than one going 25 MPH. What your calculations neglect is that in my example, I said a car going 90 rear-ending a car going 65 will exert the same force as a car going 25 crashing into a stopped car. This is basic physics, the force exerted is mass times acceleration. A car traveling at 90 MPH crashing into a car going 65 MPH will accelerate the car going 65 just like a car going 25 will accelerate a stopped car. So there is no illogical reasoning in my example.
Yes, there is the fact that your car travels more and there is a greater distance that you would not be in total control over the car. That's why you follow at greater distances the faster you go.
59 ft per second differential & 2.6 x the force means the vehicle accident will have significantly different results.
Your example is flawed. You do not muliply, or divide, you subtract the speeds and multiply by the force of the vehicle crashing into the slower vehicle to determine force of impact.
Which is Maricopa Rd.? The road that runs past the Casino and the race track?
If so simple:
You have 2 interchanges within a few miles. Speed limit is determined partially by ammount of traffic entering and exiting road way, likelihood of pedestrians, etc. Considering how traffic is directed after any event at the track or Casino it makes sense. Same as slowing traffic down at Rinker and before Maricopa.
I am sure it is in the link posted early for National Highway Safety.
Taking into account the considerations you posted, there should be a lower speed limit approaching Riggs after Maricopa Rd and a higher speed limit between I-10 and Riggs. This is still not explained. Even going northbound on 347, the speed limit should increase, since traffic leaves 347 for Maricopa Rd.
A person has much more time to react at 25-30 MPH than at 70-80 MPH.
No, reaction time does not change no matter how fast or slow you go. What changes is the distance you travel, which is why you follow at greater distances. This obviates the risk. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 11/06/2007 4:00 PM |
Alert | A car is doing 75-90 on the stretch from I-10 to Firebird/Maricopa Rd./Huhugam. A car coming off of Maricopa Rd./Firebird turns (left or right that doesn't matter) onto 347 and gets plowed. The reason? The person turning is not judging the oncoming traffic's speed accurately and you can't expect them to.
People are used to making right turns on roads where speed limits are much slower. In most areas of the Valley, the speed limit is no higher than 45. When you are used to oncoming traffic coming at 45mph-55mph on most roads it's hard to make a good decision to pull out when the car is really approaching at 75mph-90mph. I don't care what anyone says, it is not safe to go through an intersection at that speed.
Precisely, that's why the intersection is horribly flawed. I'm not saying make the curve 65 MPH, I'm saying the stretch between the curve and I-10 is 55 for no good reason. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 11/06/2007 4:05 PM |
Alert | | Actually I want to revise that: You can expect people to recognize a car going 25 MPH faster than they're used to. Otherwise you would not have yield signs for traffic merging onto 75 MPH speed limit sections of I-17. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Sinbad
Posts:3053
| | 11/06/2007 4:19 PM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Jason on 11/06/2007 2:18 PM
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>You are too funny. I like how you try to fold the truth like you are working with Time and Space. Let's just see you crash at 25 MPH and you Crash at 65 MPH.... and see how you WALK or Ride away from that accident. "It wasn't speed that made me crash, it was the Road conditions. Some how the road mand me crash, not the fact that I lost control or was speeding above the speed limit", Jason says as he is driven to the hosiptal.</div>
Now you're not even making sense. Follow me on this one:
You say I can crash at 25 MPH and walk away right? Yet the person going 90 is demonized. The people reading, texting, talking on the phone, eating, weaving, tailgating, drafting, etc. are all the people that are far more likely to crash into you Sinbad. Not the guy concentrating on the road going 75-80.</div>
You are incorrect my friend.
<b>Then doesn't it follow that I can rear-end a car going 65 MPH while I'm going 90 and walk away? Basic physics.<b>
I see you failed Basic Physics. If I hit you at 90 and you are going 65... Your butt is going to ROLL. Follow me for a second Jason. MOMENTEUM (or how ever you spell it. More than likey... you are going to end up like the cop in the jeep and the poor soul that he took out. I hit you, your SPEED carries you out of control and BAM.. you are done my friend....DONE!!!!
<img src="http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/6748/crashgo1.png">
<a target=_blank href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw6VUwG9nOo">CLICK HERE .. could be the 347 on a clear day</a>
END OF STORY!!! | |
Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
______________________________________
***************************************
San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these | |
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