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| | Author | Messages | |
vinny
Posts:636
 | | 09/18/2007 5:10 PM |
 Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>
If they needed to grind it that far down, they should have ground the surrounding area so that it wasn't so uneven. Alternately, they could have applied a temporary fix to prevent it from being hazardous to drivers.</div>
it looks like there is a hole filled with cold-patch right after the bridge, on the left hand side of the lane. i looked for it today, and that is the only spot i noticed that looked like it was deep enough to cause damage.
but still, if you know your vehicle isn't capable of traversing rough terrain at speed, do you really think the construction company is at fault?
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Follow your bliss. Happiness is a conscious decision | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 09/18/2007 5:18 PM |
Alert | they are putting down new carpet, not replacing the slab. when you put down new carpet on your same old slab you won't be changing the slab.
The "slab" is not the problem. 4 years ago the road did not have all these cracks and the drive was smoother than it is now. Again, since I have to spell this out for you, this is not a complaint, I'm just saying the road is not done as smoothly as other comparable roads. I'm not going to keep going around and around on this point with you. I am not complaining, just comparing.
as far as the bent rims, the construction company did their due diligence to notify drivers of a construction event, and at this point there is even a brandy new, smooth, pothole free lane to drive in.
Again, this does not change the fact that the milled lane is opened and the speed limit is 65. It is the job of their engineers to ensure that if they leave a road open, it is safe to travel at the posted limit. They are negligent if this is not the case, no matter how many other lanes are open. Only a moron would assume that an open lane should not be traveled in. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | vinny
Posts:636
| | 09/18/2007 5:33 PM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By Jason on 09/18/2007 5:18 PM
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>they are putting down new carpet, not replacing the slab. when you put down new carpet on your same old slab you won't be changing the slab.</div>
The "slab" is not the problem. 4 years ago the road did not have all these cracks and the drive was smoother than it is now. <i>Again, since I have to spell this out for you,</i> this is not a complaint, I'm just saying the road is not done as smoothly as other comparable roads. I'm not going to keep going around and around on this point with you. I am not complaining, just comparing.
<div class='NTForums_Quote'>as far as the bent rims, the construction company did their due diligence to notify drivers of a construction event, and at this point there is even a brandy new, smooth, pothole free lane to drive in.</div>
<b>Again</b>, this does not change the fact that the milled lane is opened and the speed limit is 65. It <i>is</i> the job of their engineers to ensure that if they leave a road open, it is safe to travel at the posted limit. They are <i>negligent</i> if this is not the case, no matter how many other lanes are open. Only a moron would assume that an open lane should not be traveled in.</div>
4 years, and an explosive growth. i wonder why the surface wore out?
what cracks? in the sub grade? did you peel back the wearing surface to take a look 4 years ago? perhaps you should Google how roads are constructed to have a better understanding. they aren't simply laying asphalt in the desert, there are several different layers of material that a road is constructed of.
you last line should read:
"Only a moron would assume that an open lane should be traveled in at a higher speed than the<i>recommended</i> speed limit."
in case your unsure, that recommended 45 mph speed limit is there to warn you the road surface is indeed sub-par, and has the potential to damage your vehicle. while the 65mph speed limit is in place, those people that drive vehicles susceptible to damage from rough roads should follow the <i>recommended</i> speed limit. traveling above the <i>recommended</i> speed limit will put you at a higher risk for damaging your <i>own</i> vehicle.
| |
Follow your bliss. Happiness is a conscious decision | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 09/18/2007 6:28 PM |
Alert | what cracks? in the sub grade? did you peel back the wearing surface to take a look 4 years ago? perhaps you should Google how roads are constructed to have a better understanding. they aren't simply laying asphalt in the desert, there are several different layers of material that a road is constructed of.
Since you like analogies, asphalt is like frosting on a cake. It doesn't matter if the cake itself isn't smooth, the frosting will be smooth if the baker is good at smoothing the frosting.
in case your unsure, that recommended 45 mph speed limit is there to warn you the road surface is indeed sub-par, and has the potential to damage your vehicle. while the 65mph speed limit is in place, those people that drive vehicles susceptible to damage from rough roads should follow the recommended speed limit. traveling above the recommended speed limit will put you at a higher risk for damaging your own vehicle.
Ah, so you're saying it is never safe to travel 65 in that lane. Then again, the engineers were negligent in leaving 65 MPH signs up. Also, I recall that those signs are for the loose gravel, not potholes. I haven't had a single rock hit my windshield in weeks, so it seems that the speed limit really is, 65 MPH.
It's pretty simple: They could have smoothed the edge of the pothole, but the fact that several cars have been damaged shows that they were negligent in leaving an unsafe road surface open. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | vinny
Posts:636
| | 09/18/2007 7:29 PM |
Alert | asphalt isn't like frosting on a cake, asphalt isn't a fill, its a coating. while it is smother than what its coating it is not applied thicker in areas that are depressed. its applied in an even coat across the entire road. they would have had to repair the lower surfaces of the road way to smooth is out. that is not in the scope of a resurfacing project.
the milled lane is safe to travel at 65, not a single person has been injured because of grooves and pot holes. the recommendation is to slow down in that lane. my SUV can traverse terrain much worse than that milled lane at 65 without damage or becoming out of control. i wouldn't subject my car to 65 in that lane without being prepared for damage.
i'll look tomorrow, but i'm pretty sure there are signs reading milled surface, with the suggested speed of 45 mph. but in reality, do you think they are going to swap signs for each event that goes on? are we really that incompetent to not be able to control ourselves and realize that we are responsible for our own actions?
there have been signs warning of construction for months, signs warning you off loose gravel, milled lanes, and suggested speed limits. its time to take personal responsibility and say "I knew the lane was rough, and there would be pot holes and rough patches. i knew my vehicle is not suited for rough roads and i should have slowed down or stayed in the other lane. this is my problem" the construction company warned of the dangers, people ignored the posted warnings.
on top of all that i never said unsafe, i said subpar. the milled lane is not optimal, but it is certainly useable.
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Follow your bliss. Happiness is a conscious decision | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 09/18/2007 7:44 PM |
Alert | are we really that incompetent to not be able to control ourselves and realize that we are responsible for our own actions?
Like not leaving a hunk of asphalt sharp enough to break a tire in a spot where you can't see it until the last minute? Bottom line: I should be able to drive the speed limit on a clear, dry day without expectation of damage from the road surface. The construction company was negligent. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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|  | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 09/18/2007 7:46 PM |
Alert | on top of all that i never said unsafe, i said subpar. the milled lane is not optimal, but it is certainly useable.
I said unsafe, because tire blowouts aren't safe.
Furthermore it is illogical to assume there would be potholes, since the whole reason for the milling was to eliminate potholes. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | FICOFARMS
Posts:4
| | 09/18/2007 7:50 PM |
Alert | | WOW, My cousin Vinny and his 2 yoots. The jack of all trades master and of NONE. Did you look that up on wikipedia or were you raised by a family of road builders? Very nice description. | | | |
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| | livinginthecopasux
Posts:944
| | 09/18/2007 7:54 PM |
Alert | the milled lane is safe to travel at 65, not a single person has been injured because of grooves and pot holes.
i find that hard to believe...traving northbound on the milled section sways your car back and forth relentlessly, between the grooves and the halp of the lane that is paved there have been no accidents? | |
BUSTED! | |
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| | Grilladawg
Posts:219
| | 09/20/2007 12:19 AM |
Alert | Yep...that's a nasty area on the road. I read up on this awhile back....and was wondering where it was, when my wife told me later she smacked right into and it sounded pretty bad.
We were driving one day back from Chandler, SMACK! That thing will F&%k your car up bad. Stay on the right side after you hit that bridgeway before the Harrah's sign. | | | |
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| | CyndiWitczak
Posts:212
| | 09/20/2007 10:52 AM |
Alert | | Jason, I do have a considerable respect for your overall knowledge of things in general, but I have to point out something you said that isn't correct. You said "Furthermore it is illogical to assume there would be potholes, since the whole reason for the milling was to eliminate potholes." Milling is not done to fix potholes. It is a benefit of milling that some potholes are eliminated. If you recall, even the milled portion of the road has large crevices and holes, especially in the left lane as you go North. There were considerable holes in the milled portion of the right lane before they laid the first layer of the asphalt over a month ago. They were filled and corrected by the new pavement, not the milling. Milling has 2 primary purposes in asphalt construction. One is to grade the road for proper water drainage. This is especially important on roads where there is heavy pooling after a rain, and under rubberized asphalt, which is very porous and will drain much better than the original layer. The second is that rubberized asphalt works better when the surface to which it is applied is not smooth, so the gradation of the rocks can get into and hold to the original layer. It isn't icing on a cake. Does peanut butter adhere better to a porous piece of toast, or the counter top? The slab is VERY important to the finished product. Damage to the subgrade can make or break a project. If the subgrade isn't fixed when it is resurfaced, the damage will ruin the new layer, no matter how smooth it is. As far as signage, if there is a sign at the bridge that reads "bump", ADOT has fulfilled its duty to drivers to let them know of a hazard. I know that people post what they think to be truths quite often, but if you google my last name and pavement, you might see that I may have a little clue about which I type. | |
Yes, that's really my name | |
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| | Lees2
Posts:586
| | 09/20/2007 11:03 AM |
Alert | | The pothole is gone! | |
Previous Post Count: 2731
Member Since: April 22, 2005 at 3:24 p.m. | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 09/20/2007 11:53 AM |
Alert | "Bump" is not sufficient. No one expects a "bump" to ruin a rim. At least the hole is fixed now.
The icing analogy is meant not as a one-to-one analogy in the sense of viscosity, but it means that the new asphalt layer does not conform to the surface below. It will only conform to the extent that they have properly milled out the potholes and created a surface that they can then grade properly. If the new asphalt conformed exactly, then we'd be driving on a surface that is grooved right now, not relatively smooth. Therefore, asphalt is <i>similar</i> to icing, in that it does not have to conform to the surface below. Does that help clarify? If it did, then why is I-10 now so smooth where it used to be very bumpy? All they did was seal cracks and pave right over.
I understand that my analogy is not perfect, but this has gone way off course. 347 is not as high-quality a job as other highways, that was my original point.
I'm fully aware that milling's primary purpose is to ensure a proper adhesion, which cannot be achieved when there are tons of potholes on the surface. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | | maricopacabana
Posts:338
| | 09/21/2007 6:43 AM |
Alert | | So you can tell the quality of the whole project by a picture of a small section? Do you also know the winning lottery numbers? Maybe we should hold off judgement until they apply the final layer later this year. | | | |
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| | alanf
Posts:1462
| | 09/21/2007 7:06 AM |
Alert | | I heard that one of the construction workers lost his wedding band and they'll be pulling the asphault back up trying to find it. | | | |
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