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| | Author | Messages | |
GilaGuy
Posts:789


 | | 02/18/2008 7:20 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/18/2008 2:44 PM
However during rush hour there is no way to make the turn safely. So that's why I'm thinking lights that switch to left-on-green-arrow-only during rush hour are a good solution, short of offsetting the turn lanes. That's just silly talk. The road is not inherently unsafe, and neither is it unsafe at certain times to practice a simple act of turning left. The move itself isn't pulling teeth, it just involves patience and savvy. Okay, it involves a LOT of patience. A protective turn arrow could help by providing more time for those drivers to make the move, but there are, on occasion, opportunities to complete the turn during the normal green light cycle...and those opportunities ought not be denied by the overconservative prohibitive left turn signals. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/19/2008 9:38 AM |
Alert | The road is not inherently unsafe, and neither is it unsafe at certain times to practice a simple act of turning left. The move itself isn't pulling teeth, it just involves patience and savvy.
No, it is inherently unsafe to turn when you cannot see if there is oncoming traffic. I have been stuck at both the RED and Fry's lights, in the intersection until the light turns red. I waited a good second as traffic went through the red light. Once it looked like all the traffic was clear, I started to make my turn, only to have to slam on my brakes because someone else ran the light way after the red. Because the lanes are not offset, you have no way to see oncoming traffic.
How can you suggest that it is safe to turn without being able to see oncoming traffic? How about we put a blindfold on you and then ask you when it is safe to make the turn? That's essentially what's happening.  | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/19/2008 9:43 AM |
Alert | Posted By movinonup on 02/18/2008 2:54 PM Posted By Jason on 02/16/2008 10:32 PM
They had originally planned an acceleration lane, as well as straightening out the lane from Maricopa Rd so it didn't even curve. They also planned to stop left turns onto Maricopa Rd. from 347. If they just implemented these changes, it would solve the problem.
Do you have proof of these plans? I think they're just rumors... I feel someone will have to die on that road that is famous enough to get the attention it needs.
They're in the AZCentral archives somewhere. I'm not paying to get access to them. | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789


 | | 02/19/2008 10:59 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/19/2008 9:38 AM No, it is inherently unsafe to turn when you cannot see if there is oncoming traffic. I have been stuck at both the RED and Fry's lights, in the intersection until the light turns red. I waited a good second as traffic went through the red light. Once it looked like all the traffic was clear, I started to make my turn, only to have to slam on my brakes because someone else ran the light way after the red. Because the lanes are not offset, you have no way to see oncoming traffic.
How can you suggest that it is safe to turn without being able to see oncoming traffic? How about we put a blindfold on you and then ask you when it is safe to make the turn? That's essentially what's happening. I make those turns constantly, and have never had a problem. I don't know if you're not "jinking" your vehicle appropriately or what, but it's something you can fix. It takes a sharp eye to be able to look through oncoming traffic (including the windshields of cars in the opposite direction left-turn lane) to see movement in your direction, but you do what needs to get done in order to complete the turn. No different from any other place in any other rush hour. If you peek out and see someone running the light, then you take action. Again, these things happen, and adding some prohibitive turn arrow isn't going to solve the foolishness that exists among those who can't be bothered to stop when they're supposed to. But again, you're in control of your vehicle, so you're in command. If you can't see something in the position you are in, assume another position. It's not impossible, you know.  | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/20/2008 12:11 AM |
Alert | It's not impossible, you know.
Yeah, it is. 
I'm in something roughly sedan height and I'm almost always looking at an SUV or truck across from me. I've got my car over as far as possible and still I've almost been creamed all these times. I've tried all the tricks and I can't see around them. I'm actually rather tired of having such a poor view of traffic, so my next vehicle may well be a truck or SUV. So much for good gas mileage. Maybe I'll get a picture the next time I'm at the Fry's intersection, so you can see what I mean... | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789


 | | 02/21/2008 11:03 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 12:11 AM I've tried all the tricks and I can't see around them. I'm actually rather tired of having such a poor view of traffic, so my next vehicle may well be a truck or SUV. So much for good gas mileage. No need for the picture, I make the turn daily. And I think you're just being silly. I know what you mean about being the smaller car facing down an SUV, but at the very least, you are either able to see the curve of the road to the right of that vehicle, or are able to go when there's no vehicle there and the road is completely viewable, or are able to peek around to the left, or are able to hold for a yellow light at which point you can gingerly make your way into a better position. The point is, you have options...which you wouldn't have in the presence of a prohibitive arrow.  | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/21/2008 11:24 PM |
Alert | I think we're talking about different intersections. I'm talking about the RED and Fry's intersections. Here's the situation. No curve in the road. No offset, in fact negative offset. The only way I can see past the SUV is to actually enter the oncoming lane. I've waited until my light was red, started to only to have my car totaled by some idiot going 20+ over the limit. He actually had to swerve into the other lane in the middle of the intersection to avoid hitting me. By the time I was able to resume my turn, the other direction had already gotten a green and the drivers on the Basha's and Fry's sides started entering the intersection.
I'm telling you. No options. The only safe way to turn there is to wait for an arrow. | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789


 | | 02/22/2008 12:26 AM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/21/2008 11:24 PM
I think we're talking about different intersections. I'm talking about the RED and Fry's intersections. Here's the situation. No curve in the road. No offset, in fact negative offset. The only way I can see past the SUV is to actually enter the oncoming lane. I've waited until my light was red, started to only to have my car totaled by some idiot going 20+ over the limit. He actually had to swerve into the other lane in the middle of the intersection to avoid hitting me. By the time I was able to resume my turn, the other direction had already gotten a green and the drivers on the Basha's and Fry's sides started entering the intersection.
I'm telling you. No options. The only safe way to turn there is to wait for an arrow. Okay, I thought you were talking about the Fry's one that is located, which still affords you several feet of clearing space in the turn lane with which to edge out to your left without impacting oncoming traffic. So there I don't agree with you at all. But which intersection with RED are you speaking of? RED/Cobblestone and 347? I can't believe that's the one because there is a median separating both lanes of traffic that is several feet wide. Leaning into the turn using that median as cover to peer around the vehicle in the opposite-direction left-turn lane affords you ample protection to see around it and observe oncoming traffic. That, in essence, is no different from left turns that have to be made all over the country...and are done without hypercontrolling prohibitive arrows. If you want a "protective" one, then that's fine. But don't limit options for others just because you have a hard time.  | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/22/2008 9:40 AM |
Alert | Correction to above post, my car was "almost" totaled, it wasn't actually totaled. Don't know where that went in my post...
Anyway, I will have to get a picture, since that's worth a 1,000 words.  | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | alanf
Posts:1473


 | | 02/22/2008 12:37 PM |
Alert | You stop at the line. If it is clear, you go. If not, you wait for the arrow. It's not dangerous at all. What's the big deal? It is only dangerous if you are in a hurry and decide to take the risk. This "sticking your car out into the intersection until the light turns red" is dangerous, and illegal in states with common sense guiding their laws . | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/22/2008 3:41 PM |
Alert | | That's what I do now. GilaGuy is saying that I'm crazy, but he doesn't mind as long as I don't want other people to do that. | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | llggs
Posts:61


 | | 02/22/2008 9:40 PM |
Alert | To multiple discussions: 1.) I cannot currently see if the light is green or red at Casa Blanca if there is a truck or SUV in front of me (and we're not talking tailgaiting here folks). Perhaps the lights should be higher or another light placed to the left or right so 347 drivers know. Note: The light has changed to red on 10 of my last 11 trips through. Some even without cars waiting. This needs to be changed. 2.) At RED when using the left lane to turn in, the oncoming persons turning left to Cobblestone Farms block the view. Therefore to make a safe turn, my passenger must look to see if any cars are coming (that is when I have a passenger). And this is exactly the same for entering the Fry's parking lot from the North side.
I'm actually surprised more people have not been killed in these dangerous intersections. | | I previously had 1 trillion posts! | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789


 | | 02/23/2008 7:33 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/22/2008 3:41 PM
That's what I do now. GilaGuy is saying that I'm crazy, but he doesn't mind as long as I don't want other people to do that. I'm not saying you or anyone else is crazy. In fact, what I am saying is more in line with what alanf just said...if it is clear, go. If not, wait. But do not demand a prohibitive turn arrow that removes your right to go when it's clear.  | | | |
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| | stephen
Posts:0

 | | 02/25/2008 9:53 AM |
Alert | | What ever happened to paying attention to avoid accidents? Jeez! | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/26/2008 9:47 AM |
Alert | Posted By stephen on 02/25/2008 9:53 AM
What ever happened to paying attention to avoid accidents? Jeez!
Did you miss the last half-dozen posts? My view is completely blocked! Jeez! 
| | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Pepperdog
Posts:229


 | | 03/01/2008 12:27 AM |
Alert | Today, because of the back up, I got off on Wild horse pass, went around the race track and came out on Maricopa road to 347. You can no longer legally make a left turn onto 347 from that intersection now. I do not know how new this is but it is FANTASTIC improvment. I won't worry so much now that someone is going to make a very bad judgement and make a left infront of me.
An acelleration lane from Maricopa road to 347 would be great. What most scares me because I have had to deal with it is when (travelling southbound on 347 in the left lane to leave roomin the right lane) one car makes a right from Maricopa road onto 347 and does not immediately accelerate and the another car who made a right behind them then jumps into the left lane to pass them completely forgetting that they are going 50mph or more slower relative to traffic. Darn near ran over a couple of people doing that. | | Anyone who advocates a "one" world government, a "one" social order, or a "one" enviroment is a communist trying to take away your freedoms. Nature celebrates diversity! | |
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