skgiro
Posts:38
 | | 10/04/2007 11:47 AM |
 Alert | This topic may open a can of worms, but here we go...
I keep hearing claims on this forum that is illegal to drive on Indian reservations and that they can arrest you, seize your vehicle, etc. etc. I believe this is total bunk and was wondering <b><i>does anyone have any actual proof factually stating why you can't drive on Indian reservations.</b></i> I presume if you're driving sanely and near the speed limit, there should be no issue.
Obviously, we are allowed to drive on 347 across the reservation, and I've never had issues driving on Casablanca, Murphy Rd, or Nelson Rd. We can obviously drive to the casinos, resorts, and Firebird Raceway with no issue. I presume there should be no issue either if I wanted to take the good dirt roads back to the Japanese Internment Camp ruins as long as I don't violate traffic laws or trespassing signs.
Now the area around Maricopa Ag. Center on Smith-Enke is a different story as they clearly state no trespassing, and I also presume off-roading on the reservation is asking for trouble. <b><i>Does anyone have facts</b></i> or will I have to continue speculating?
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Copa Conscious
Posts:379
| | 10/04/2007 11:50 AM |
Alert | They sure don't mind you using the road from i10 to the casino.
http://www.narf.org/nill/bulletins/dct/unreported/schugg.html
In this court case, Murphy Road is recognized as federally maintained highway.
Which is good, because I use this when 347 is jacked up. | | | |
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anewman
Posts:667
| | 10/04/2007 1:18 PM |
Alert | I would agree with you. Unless it is posted no trespassing or is a limited use area requiring a permit you should be fine to use any road. I have done my fair share of exploring on reservations in different parts of the state and have had no issues.
Do you have a link for the ruins? | |
"The jouney of life is as much in oneself' as the roads one travels"
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PKMet
Posts:243
| | 10/04/2007 1:22 PM |
Alert | | If they pull you over and you are close to a non-reservation road or highway, why don't you just evade them to get out of their jurisdiction? That's what a lot of the indians do. | |
They are who we thought they were! | |
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skgiro
Posts:38
| | 10/04/2007 1:59 PM |
Alert | Here's a link to an interesting read on Canal and Butte Camps.
http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/anthropology74/ce4.htm
They're both straight east on Smith-Enke, with Butte Camp being ~9 miles east of 347, and Canal Camp being 3.5 miles further. Butte Camp is easy to find because of the white concrete monument up on the hill. Canal Camp is definitely harder to find, but if you get out there, you can find where they dumped all the mess hall china. No plates are intact, but you can still find many large fragments that say: US Quarter Masters Club, 1945. | | | |
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anewman
Posts:667
| | 10/04/2007 3:17 PM |
Alert | | Very cool. I'll have to go check it out. | |
"The jouney of life is as much in oneself' as the roads one travels"
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/08/2007 4:12 PM |
Alert | They are legally capable of seizing your vehicle:
http://thenewspaper.com/news/19/1980.asp
Miner appealed the ruling, arguing that the tribe had no jurisdiction over him as a non-Indian. The Muscogee Nation Supreme Court upheld the seizure on April 29, 2005, citing the US Supreme Court decision Montana v US which stated: "A tribe may also retain inherent power to exercise civil authority over the conduct of non-Indians on fee lands within its reservation when that conduct threatens or has some direct effect on the political integrity, the economic security, or the health or welfare of the tribe."
Miner appealed to the US District Court, which found on October 10, 2006 that seizing $56,500 in property over something that merits a mere $334 fine was excessive and therefore in violation of the Eighth Amendment. Wednesday's appellate decision overruled the district court on the simple ground that Indian tribes enjoy sovereign immunity allowing them to operate without the scrutiny of a federal court, even when constitutional protections are denied to US citizens. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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anewman
Posts:667
| | 10/08/2007 5:31 PM |
Alert | Ummm....
How about posting the whole article and provide the correct reference
Here is the part that you left out:
The case began on June 15, 2004 when Russell E. Miner parked his 2004 Hummer H2 sport utility vehicle at a casino operated by the Muscogee (Creek) Nation on tribal lands within the state of Oklahoma. Miner was there to gamble with his brother, Ricky Dean Miner.
On June 16, casino security noticed that Miner's $55,000 SUV had parked illegally in a handicapped space. After a search of the vehicle, casino forces observed 6.8 grams of a suspicious white powder along with $1463 in cash. Muscogee (Creek) Lighthorse Police were called in to impound the vehicle and its contents. Two weeks later, Miner pleaded guilty to "disorderly conduct: possession of a dangerous substance" and paid a $334 civil fine. After this, the tribal court ordered the permanent forfeiture of the cash and the Hummer to the Muscogee Nation.
Wow- that changes things a little bit doesn't it??
Ever park in a handicap or reserved space in Tempe? Your vehicle is towed within 20 minutes - costs $120 to get it out too. White suspicious powder and cash. I think that would get your vehicle towed and someone in a blue uniform would be waiting for you when you came to get your car.
This is a far stretch from driving on a road in the reservation.
If the road does not say No Trespassing and you are not driving like an idiot, detroying anything, littering, or any thing else that could get you in trouble. They are not going to take your car.
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"The jouney of life is as much in oneself' as the roads one travels"
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/08/2007 5:46 PM |
Alert | This is a far stretch from driving on a road in the reservation.
You missed my point...
The point was that the reservation does have the authority to:
A) Confiscate your vehicle
B) Suspend your constitutional rights
C) Pull you over
It has been suggested on this thread that they have no such authority. When you are driving on reservation roads, you are subject to the laws of the reservation, not the State of Arizona. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/08/2007 5:47 PM |
Alert | Ever park in a handicap or reserved space in Tempe? Your vehicle is towed within 20 minutes - costs $120 to get it out too. White suspicious powder and cash. I think that would get your vehicle towed and someone in a blue uniform would be waiting for you when you came to get your car.
Do they confiscate (as in take ownership of) your car? No. Big difference wouldn't you say? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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60milecommute
Posts:41
| | 10/10/2007 1:57 PM |
Alert | | Boy sounds a lot like Mexico(we have NO rights in their country but they have every right and then some in our country) I wonder if the ACLU would come to our call on these civil rights violations? NOT.... | | | |
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Copa Conscious
Posts:379
| | 10/10/2007 1:59 PM |
Alert | | the ACLU would fight for the rights of the GRICs you trespassed on. | | | |
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60milecommute
Posts:41
| | 10/10/2007 2:38 PM |
Alert | | Yea I know, it is such a big crime against the tribe that we non-indians drive on a road that our tax dollars more than likely paid for!!! | | | |
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Copa Conscious
Posts:379
| | 10/10/2007 2:41 PM |
Alert | | How dare we sully their sovereign nation? | | | |
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60milecommute
Posts:41
| | 10/10/2007 3:05 PM |
Alert | | Yet if they commit a crime off the res all they have to do is make a mad dash back to their "sovereign nation" and poof their gone....Let's see if we could do that.. | | | |
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8523nyner
Posts:14
| | 10/12/2007 1:35 AM |
Alert | http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/OJP/a0608/app1.htm
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/SearchResults.asp?SearchPhrase=indian+police&Scope=%2Fars%2F13&SearchedFrom=%2FArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp
http://www.legal-definitions.com/hot-pursuit.htm
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terry tee
Posts:23
| | 10/12/2007 3:38 AM |
Alert | | the fact is they can and will confiscate if the want, check with the tribal police you fool's or better yet try your luck , make your monthly payments on your car for a year or 2 while they decide when they will put it on the tribal council agenda to be heard, get savvy with their rights oh i for got you would just break their laws like your fathers did, saps | | | |
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Copa Conscious
Posts:379
| | 10/12/2007 11:29 AM |
Alert | I highly doubt they would confiscate someone's car,unless the guy was really speeding or doing something stupid.
It would be terrible press for a 'people' that rely on the casino to pay their bills.
If non-indians were afraid to drive on the reservation, the casinos would fold. | | | |
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AzSandSlinger
Posts:496
| | 10/12/2007 12:32 PM |
Alert | If non-indians were afraid to drive on the reservation, the casinos would fold.
I'm sure they are aware of this.... And is probably the reason they don't do it much anymore...
Back in the 80's, confiscating your ride was rampant... There were tons of horror stories about people who had just bought cars.. got pulled over doing 5-10mph past the speed limit.. and lost their rides... Tribal roads were also where you ABSOLUTELY DID NOT SPEED.. they were also notorious for pulling you over for doing 1mph over (according to THEM, not you)..
It's much better now that they rely heavily on the traffic to get people to the money-makers (casinos)..
-Shane | |
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skgiro
Posts:38
| | 10/12/2007 3:00 PM |
Alert | | Thanks for all the feedback. I think I'll take my chances driving on reservation roads when needed. I'll just be careful not to violate any "NO TRESPASSING" signs and not carry anything in the car to warrant a drug seizure. | | | |
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