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| | Author | Messages | |
hastings1066
Posts:1011


 | | 02/20/2008 2:17 PM |
Alert | Posted By AZ Dreaming on 02/19/2008 9:21 AM Mr. Smith I have two reaons to not vote for you. I'm sorry to have to use such filthy language on this website but the reasons are: You're Mormon and you're a Republican. Sorry, but the truth must be told!! I had hoped that such religious bigotry had ended with the election of JFK. Sad to see that the haters are still with us. On a previous post you called yourself a liberal democrat.It seems that you are "liberal" only if people are on your approved list of religions. How very, very, liberal of you. What next, set up camps for the extermination of members of religions that you don't approve of? | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/20/2008 2:31 PM |
Alert | I had hoped that such religious bigotry had ended with the election of JFK. Sad to see that the haters are still with us. On a previous post you called yourself a liberal democrat.It seems that you are "liberal" only if people are on your approved list of religions. How very, very, liberal of you. What next, set up camps for the extermination of members of religions that you don't approve of?
Well now hang on a second there. You're saying it's not useful to examine the principles that a candidate subscribes to?
What next, set up camps for the extermination of members of religions that you don't approve of?
Slippery slopes don't serve anyone well. | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | drummer72
Posts:3886


 | | 02/20/2008 2:33 PM |
Alert | Posted By missPolitick on 02/20/2008 1:09 PM Posted By Lurky Loo on 02/19/2008 11:19 PM
I thought it had been pretty well established that Mr. Smith attends Community of Hope. Doesn't make much sense for a Mormon to go there.... Maybe he's not even a Republican! Lurky Loo, I was thinking the same thing.... Tony, thanks for looking into the question for me. Drummer, I think he has shown that he's willing to admit when he doesn't know something (which is saying a lot about a man) and is willing to research an answer rather than giving incorrect information. Great, SHE'S back! | | "Everything for everyone and nothing for ourselves" | |
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| | CliffinAZ
Posts:451

 | | 02/20/2008 6:00 PM |
Alert | Posted By hastings1066 on 02/20/2008 2:17 PM Posted By AZ Dreaming on 02/19/2008 9:21 AM Mr. Smith I have two reaons to not vote for you. I'm sorry to have to use such filthy language on this website but the reasons are: You're Mormon and you're a Republican. Sorry, but the truth must be told!! I had hoped that such religious bigotry had ended with the election of JFK. Sad to see that the haters are still with us. On a previous post you called yourself a liberal democrat.It seems that you are "liberal" only if people are on your approved list of religions. How very, very, liberal of you. What next, set up camps for the extermination of members of religions that you don't approve of? Hastings, be careful about the generalization here. I tend to vote left of center myself, so I guess you'd call me "liberal" (although maybe "a little left of center "is a better characterization), and I was the first one to object to the bigotry. I'm guessing that if you ask Drummer--a proud liberal--he'd feel the same way I do about it (although he'd agree with the 'Republican' part obviously). Sorry for putting words in your mouth if that's not true Drummer--I'm guessing it is from what I've seen of your other posts. | | | |
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| | hastings1066
Posts:1011


 | | 02/20/2008 6:08 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 2:31 PM
I had hoped that such religious bigotry had ended with the election of JFK. Sad to see that the haters are still with us. On a previous post you called yourself a liberal democrat.It seems that you are "liberal" only if people are on your approved list of religions. How very, very, liberal of you. What next, set up camps for the extermination of members of religions that you don't approve of?
Well now hang on a second there. You're saying it's not useful to examine the principles that a candidate subscribes to? What next, set up camps for the extermination of members of religions that you don't approve of?
Slippery slopes don't serve anyone well. If you read my post again, you will note that I did not say that it's not useful to examine a candidates principles, I have no idea where you got that from my post. I said that ,to state that the very name of a religion is filthy is bigotry. For an example, review some of the German comments about filthy Jews in the 1930s. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/20/2008 6:14 PM |
Alert | | I still think you're taking the comment too far. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that you don't agree with some of the basic principles of a religion and, why would you vote for someone whose principles you don't agree with? | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | hastings1066
Posts:1011


 | | 02/20/2008 6:21 PM |
Alert | Posted By CliffinAZ on 02/20/2008 6:00 PM Posted By hastings1066 on 02/20/2008 2:17 PM Posted By AZ Dreaming on 02/19/2008 9:21 AM Mr. Smith I have two reaons to not vote for you. I'm sorry to have to use such filthy language on this website but the reasons are: You're Mormon and you're a Republican. Sorry, but the truth must be told!! I had hoped that such religious bigotry had ended with the election of JFK. Sad to see that the haters are still with us. On a previous post you called yourself a liberal democrat.It seems that you are "liberal" only if people are on your approved list of religions. How very, very, liberal of you. What next, set up camps for the extermination of members of religions that you don't approve of? Hastings, be careful about the generalization here. I tend to vote left of center myself, so I guess you'd call me "liberal" (although maybe "a little left of center "is a better characterization), and I was the first one to object to the bigotry. I'm guessing that if you ask Drummer--a proud liberal--he'd feel the same way I do about it (although he'd agree with the 'Republican' part obviously). Sorry for putting words in your mouth if that's not true Drummer--I'm guessing it is from what I've seen of your other posts. I was attempting to point out that such bigotry is not a liberal view. for someone who claims to be a liberal to make such a statement came as a surprise. I know many liberals and am sure that they would be shocked at such a view. I agree that from what I have seen our resident token liberal, Drummer, would not espouse any such view. No matter how misguided he is ,he's not a bigot. | | | |
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| | CliffinAZ
Posts:451

 | | 02/20/2008 6:31 PM |
Alert | Ok, point taken Hastings. I think my irony/sarcasm meter must be broken ("how liberal of you...").  | | | |
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| | hastings1066
Posts:1011


 | | 02/20/2008 6:31 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 6:14 PM
I still think you're taking the comment too far. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that you don't agree with some of the basic principles of a religion and, why would you vote for someone whose principles you don't agree with? He did not say that he disagreed with the religion, he said that Mormon was a filthy word. You can disagree with the teachings of a religion all you wish, calling a religion filthy however is crossing the line. It's bigotry pure and simple. I am not a Mormon, I can only wonder what Mormons feel when they read such comments. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 02/20/2008 6:49 PM |
Alert | How do you know that she meant that Mormon was a filthy word? What if she just meant Republican?
However, whatever the case, I respect and support your efforts to keep insults and appeals to emotion out of the discussion. | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | CliffinAZ
Posts:451

 | | 02/20/2008 7:17 PM |
Alert | What amazes me about this is that AZ Dreaming didn't even bother to verify his/her 'facts' about Anthony Smith (obviously, given that he's not even a Mormon to begin with) before using them to make a decision not to vote for him--or before posting them here as facts. | | | |
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| | hastings1066
Posts:1011


 | | 02/20/2008 8:01 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 6:49 PM
How do you know that she meant that Mormon was a filthy word? What if she just meant Republican?
However, whatever the case, I respect and support your efforts to keep insults and appeals to emotion out of the discussion. Even if she meant just Republican and not Mormon as well (which I doubt). I am saddened. There was a time when Republicans and Democrats could disagree and debate the issues of the day without undue acrimony. I always assume that those who disagree with me on public issues are wrong but honorable and well meaning Now too often on both the national stage and on this forum, a rational debate deteriorates into invective. Glad to see that you agree with this last point. | | | |
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| | CliffinAZ
Posts:451

 | | 02/20/2008 8:19 PM |
Alert | Posted By hastings1066 on 02/20/2008 8:01 PM Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 6:49 PM
How do you know that she meant that Mormon was a filthy word? What if she just meant Republican?
However, whatever the case, I respect and support your efforts to keep insults and appeals to emotion out of the discussion. Even if she meant just Republican and not Mormon as well (which I doubt). I am saddened. There was a time when Republicans and Democrats could disagree and debate the issues of the day without undue acrimony. I always assume that those who disagree with me on public issues are wrong but honorable and well meaning Now too often on both the national stage and on this forum, a rational debate deteriorates into invective. Glad to see that you agree with this last point. I'm in complete agreement with both of you on this. The increasing acromony (or lack of basic civility) within our political parties themselves is a reflection of what's happened to people in this country in general, and I think it moves us backwards. | | | |
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| | smithtos
Posts:28

 | | 02/21/2008 10:21 AM |
Alert | Posted By CliffinAZ on 02/19/2008 8:56 AM Mr. Smith, I thank you for answering all of the questions (well, all of the serious questions anyway) that have been posed here. I have another question about something that has been concerning me. In another thread, someone made note of a Washington Post article that actually painted Maricopa as a ghost town full of foreclosed and empty houses. That's obviously an extreme exaggeration, but there's a grain of truth that can be seen by just looking at the number of foreclosed and empty houses within the subdivisions here. I know that in my own subdivision, there are multiple ones on most blocks (and some folks are saying that MOST of the houses on their blocks are empty).
In response to one of the posts on this thread, you noted there are actually new housing starts. This is actually quite alarming to me rather than being a source of comfort. I'm concerned that we're adding new subdivisions when the ones we already have are obviously rife with foreclosures and vacancies (one needs to just look out their window to see the truth of this...)--a situation that can't be good for our neighborhoods and property values. I'm also considering the fact that in the current Phoenix area real estate market, the supply of available houses has outpaced the demand to the point where we'd need several months of heavy buying--the better part of a year I believe--before housing demand is anywhere near supply in the valley. And this gap seems to be widening rather than closing. It seems that given this situation, building more houses when we obviously can't fill the ones we have would be absolute suicide--making it much harder to fill the vast number of houses that are already empty within the existing subdivisions. It's going to be hard enough to fill those homes, given that unlike the situation a couple of years ago, there's now a massive supply of available, relatively low-cost homes closer to where most people work (a big concern to many especially given the price of gas). Do you plan to control/limit the number of new housing permits, or let the building run rampant for the sake of revenue. I'm concerned that the latter approach would have pretty devastating effects on property values--and directly on the neighborhoods (given all the bad things that can happen to/within vacant homes). My Response: Maricopa will not become a ghost town. People have been moving to the Greater Phoenix area for over 50 years and will continue to do so for the next 50 years. This is especially true since the Baby Boomer generation is reaching/has reached retirement age. Maricopa will continue to be an obvious choice for them. Maricopa is a very unique market, unlike almost any other in the Phoenix area. Most areas (Chandler, Mesa, etc.), do not have the available land to keep building new homes. The city is issuing approximately 150 building permits per month. This is revenue into the General fund. In addition to basic city services, revenue into the General Fund pays for things like Police and Firefighters, parks, libraries, etc. These are important services for those of us who haven’t left town. The bad news is that these additional homes add to the glut of homes already on the market hurting the re-sale market. Unfortunately, it will probably take a couple of years to "burn off" this inventory. Being associated with the local food bank, I’m fully aware there are a significant number of homeowners in extreme financial distress as a result of this situation. It is tempting to want government to step in and help control traditionally free-market situations (ie. regulating the number of building permits issued). Seldom do these actions accomplish the results intended. Therefore, as tempting as it may seem, controlling building permits would probably cause more harm than it does good. | | | |
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| | CliffinAZ
Posts:451

 | | 02/21/2008 10:38 AM |
Alert | Thank you for your honesty and directness in answering this question. Also just to clarify, I've never agreed with the view that we'd become a ghost town either--I'm just concerned about the empty/foreclosed homes and how long it might take for that that trend to reverse given the current market. | | | |
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| | tds2277
Posts:49

 | | 02/21/2008 12:56 PM |
Alert | I must tell you Mr Smith, that I just finished reading an article in the Copanews, This is about Development Impact Fees about how 3 Mayors controlled 271,000 citizens Wheather all of this is true or not, I am entitled to my opinion, at least untill they take free speech away (comming soon )
With thier unjust fees, as the world is going right now, this is disgusting how these 3 people can make laws that we have to abide in, and we never even had a chance to vote on this at all, they got together made a law, and that is the way it is. this is for 271,000 Citizens
This sounds more like a Dictatorship than a People's vote
What if these 3 Clowns, wanted to impose a Sellers fee on every house in the Copa, they could say it is because you are leaving the area and taking away from growth so you are going to be charged say X amount of dollars, If they can impose a Development fee of Thousands of Dollars, to Develop, then why not a Undevelopment FEE.
Dont put it past them, these people should be out of thier positions immediately, Hey I know lets get rid of them like we do with President Bush and his Regime, I know of only one way, and the legal way is not working. you figure it out.
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| | drummer72
Posts:3886


 | | 02/21/2008 2:15 PM |
Alert | OK well, me being a proud liberal doesn't mean that a republican and a mormon is considered an outcast. They are simply misguided/lost, and I don't hate people for their religious/political views.
There is only ONE America and ONE God.... | | "Everything for everyone and nothing for ourselves" | |
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| | Sinbad
Posts:3058


 | | 02/21/2008 2:33 PM |
Alert | The city is issuing approximately 150 building permits per month. This is revenue into the General fund. In addition to basic city services, revenue into the General Fund pays for things like Police and Firefighters, parks, libraries, etc. These are important services for those of us who haven’t left town. The bad news is that these additional homes add to the glut of homes already on the market hurting the re-sale market.
Mr. Smith So in order to pay for the "Basic Services" we "have to" build more houses that will probably not be occupied for 1-3 years. Doesn't that hurt the city property tax portion of the equation? This isn't a trick question; I really don't know the answer. If no one is in the current houses that have been built, than aren't we adding to the problem of new house not being occupied?
Thanks in advance.
| | Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem. ______________________________________ *************************************** San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!! Joined old forum March 2006 Post count: 3068 + these | |
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| | missPolitick
Posts:645


 | | 02/21/2008 5:23 PM |
Alert | Posted By drummer72 on 02/20/2008 2:33 PM Posted By missPolitick on 02/20/2008 1:09 PM Posted By Lurky Loo on 02/19/2008 11:19 PM
I thought it had been pretty well established that Mr. Smith attends Community of Hope. Doesn't make much sense for a Mormon to go there.... Maybe he's not even a Republican! Lurky Loo, I was thinking the same thing.... Tony, thanks for looking into the question for me. Drummer, I think he has shown that he's willing to admit when he doesn't know something (which is saying a lot about a man) and is willing to research an answer rather than giving incorrect information. Great, SHE'S back! Just so we're clear, was that a "Darn, SHE'S back" or more of a "how lovely, she's BACK!" ?? | | Despite All My Rage I Am Still Just A Rat In A Cage | |
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| | drummer72
Posts:3886


 | | 02/22/2008 12:18 AM |
Alert | | A combination of the two. | | "Everything for everyone and nothing for ourselves" | |
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