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| | Author | Messages | |
momeeof3
Posts:15
 | | 11/14/2007 4:26 PM |
 Alert | Posted By golf_rules2 on 11/13/2007 11:39 AM
FYI Trecia,
I have emailed Joe several times over the last year, with my official name and have never received a response from him. So I'm not buying the email route will work. He doesn't respond.
I know that I am not Trecia , but I have emailed Joe Estes in the past and feel very confident in his ability to answer emails. He answered all of my questions with out hesitation. I have also called him a number of times and found him to very willing to speak about anything I have ever needed him to talk about. I have also contacted other counsil members and spoken with them and they have always been more then helpful to me. Not sure why you didn't get a response. | | | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 11/14/2007 4:37 PM |
Alert | Posted By momeeof3 on 11/14/2007 11:03 AM
WOW how quick you are to judge and yet you don't seem to have a pot to piss in!!!!
Do you think it acceptable practice for a member of the council to flash a badge at DPS in an attempt to evade a ticket? Do you feel it is appropriate for a member of the council to flash a badge and then badger a local dentist after that dentist approaches him about unsafe driving in a parking lot? (Bear in mind that one of these incidents was mentioned in court under penalty of perjury, and that the other was filed in a police report, under penalty of "false reporting" charges...)
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| | bear down
Posts:62
| | 11/14/2007 4:43 PM |
Alert | | Mommeeof3 - Based on what I can surmise by this thread and the other thread - the reason why Joe Estes returns your calls versus ours is because you probably need him to pick up some more milk. | | | |
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| | josephestes
Posts:5
| | 11/14/2007 10:47 PM |
Alert | Once again a number of people have made judgments based on one-sided articles in a local rag. Yet, even though I have previously posted my cell number, I have not received a single call. Like I said before it is easy for someone to sit behind an anonymous screen name and critique others. It is sad that such vitriol is spewed without a single attempt to ascertain the other side of the story. No, I have not yet responded to the latest round of nonsense, I do have a job, serve on the City Council and have a wonderful family to be with. Not to mention last time I responded to such nonsense I was criticized for spinning. I know that I will not be able to please everyone and I don’t attempt to think otherwise. The following is a letter that I will be sending to the local papers in response to the latest round of articles, not sure if it'll get published.
Dear Editor,
As of late there have been a number of articles written about myself and the company for which I serve as general counsel. Although, these slanderous articles do not bother me anymore, I’d like to set the record straight since that will never happen in certain publications. I try (don’t always succeed) to follow a proverb in the Old Testament that states: “He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city” (Proverbs 16:32). I also try and follow the following advice: Once a man who had been slandered by a newspaper came to Edward Everett asking what to do about it. Said Everett, “Do nothing! Half the people who bought the paper never saw the article. Half of those who saw it, did not read it. Half of those who read it, did not understand it. Half of those who understood it, did not believe it. Half of those who believed it are of no account anyway” (“Sunny Side of the Street,” Nov. 1989; see also Zig Ziglar, Staying Up, Up, Up in a Down, Down World ], 174).
Let me first address the accusations that I am somehow using my office to intimidate people. If you are to believe the articles I am apparently this power hungry crazed manic who only serves on the city council to enrich himself. According to one news publication I apparently tried to intimidate a DPS office. This accusation is so far from the truth that it shouldn’t need a reply but here goes; I was pulled over, while the officer was writing the ticket he asked what I did in the City and I said I was an attorney and a city councilman, nothing else was ever said about my position; there was no badge (except the DPS officer’s) and I never asked him “if he knew who I was.” I would never dare be that arrogant. The only issue that arose on this traffic stop was my dry since of humor when I asked the officer if the DPS budget was low, since this was the first time that I had seen them do a major traffic detail on 347 since I move here and it happened to be December 23rd. Apparently the officer took offense and I apologized. Lesson learned, I will be more courteous to those great men and women that serve to protect us. In fact, to show my appreciation to our officers I and Councilman Haddad chose to be tasered to show support of our police department since most officers are required to do the same.
As for the incident involving Dr. Keller, I was driving though the parking lot behind Walgreens (I was not speeding) and a man in scrubs purposefully tried to walk in front of my car, turned out to be Dr. Keller, DDS. After I passed him I rolled down the window and asked him what his problem was. He became irate and started yelling at me that I was somehow breaking the law and that I was on private property and not allowed to drive though the lot. I identified myself as a city official and showed him my city ID, which is with a badge that says council member on it, and told him that I was aware of the city ordinances and laws and was unaware of any laws I was breaking. He continued to yell and at that point I’d had enough and started to leave, then all of the sudden Dr. Keller grabbed my door handle and tried to rip open my car door. As I drove off I was not happy about this incident and decided I was going to file criminal assault charges. After I had cooled down I decided to go back and talk to Dr. Keller and give him a chance to explain himself before I filed the charges. I met with Dr. Keller, introduced myself as the attorney he assaulted in the parking lot and we talked about his problems with traffic using the parking lot as a short cut around the congestion on 347. I told him that I would discuss the issue with the police chief. Dr. Keller said he had already talked to the chief as he was a patient of Dr. Keller’s, I told him that I would bring the issue up again as the chief worked for me and I wanted to make sure Dr. Keller’s concerns were addressed. I then went directly to the police department and talked to Chief Melvin about the incident. After thinking things through, I chose not to file assault charges. Did I handle myself as I should have the entire time, No. Did I try to intimidate Dr. Keller, No. Did I get upset, Yes. Have a learned a valuable lesson, Yes, I need to be slow to anger and should not have stopped the car in the first place.
As for the lawsuit between M.A. Maricopa and the City, I am currently working as general counsel for A.N.D. Northroup a parent company of M.A. Maricopa (yes I was given permission by A.N.D. Northroup to disclose this relationship). I handle general corporate and development issues through my law firm Estes & Associates. I have dealt with construction, development and real estate law for more than six years. I am not litigation counsel for either company and not involved as an attorney in the lawsuit. Contrary to popular opinion I do not own any land other than my house and small office, and I do not have an ownership interest in either A.N.D. Northroup or M.A. Maricopa. I bill for my service, just as I do with my other clients. M.A. Maricopa retained an independent attorney, John Gilbert with Alvarez & Gilbert, to review the issues with the City and determine whether any claims were warranted. After a review of the documents and issues involved Mr. Gilbert felt that significant claims existed against the City. Clearly, there is a conflict and I will refrain from being a part of any discussion or action on the claim.
Although one local new source feels that their review of the foregoing issues is conclusive and that they are the end all be all source of the truth, it makes me wonder why we have courts of law, why not just give the documents to an editor and have that person make the final decision. Clearly there are two sides to every story and both will get a fair shake in front of a judge, someone trained in the law and the issues involved. It has always been my understanding that reporters are to provide an unbiased view, not bend the information to meet their objectives. Interestingly, all articles regarding the Legacy School have been void of any mention to the State Statute that requires the expeditious processing of a charter school’s applications to the City. (ARS 15-198.01)
I have always felt that my service on the City Council is just that service and that I am blessed to serve because of the support of the community. Contrary to what some think, I do not seek any type of power or authority over anyone. I have always made an effort to make myself available to anyone with questions or concerns regarding any matter. I have always maintained an “open door” policy, as any councilmember should, and have given my personal cellular number to any and everyone who wants it, which is (520) 280-6858.
Very truly yours,
Joseph D. Estes
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| | josephestes
Posts:5
| | 11/14/2007 11:08 PM |
Alert | F.Y.I.,
I don't have an alter screen name, I only post under my real name. I'll even give 85239.com permission to disclose this if needed, since I’m sure there are those who won’t believe this. I don't know who Tempter is, or any of the others, except luv the copa (I know her pretty well), but do appreciate everyone's support.
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| | DesertDweller
Posts:2569
| | 11/15/2007 12:14 AM |
Alert | Joe, thanks for publishing your response here. You may want to edit your letter before you send it to the paper. What you do for Maricopa is serve on the City Council. What you do for your clients is serve as General Counsel.
If I understand the city manager/council form of government correctly, the council can only give direction to the city manager, not to individual employees. Your request to the police chief would have to go through Kolman. Based on the other front page article in the same newspaper, if there's any truth to it, that would be interesting.
I think that one of the biggest deficiencies in the Council at present is the number of times one or more members has to recuse themselves because of a conflict. With the other members it's usually a member of land ownership. It's frustrating to constituents when there isn't a full measure of representation voting on issues because of the numerous conflicts. Sometimes I almost think the City charter should be amended to add a few more council seats to make up for that.
In your position representing clients at odds with the city that you also represent, it's precarious at best. Luke 16:13 says, "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth." I believe that you will try to do your best to represent both parties that you represent. However, when a direct conflict of interest between the two arises, as it seems to have, I don't see how you can do that.
I respect anyone who choses to serve the community as an elected official. Especially at the municipal level, there isn't much power. It doesn't pay much. What there is a lot of is criticism and time under the public microscope. Some of the criticism comes from me and I try my best to keep it about the issues and not the individual.
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Stupid should hurt!
Desert Dweller - Senior Member - Posts: 2982 - Joined: Feb 2006 | |
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|  | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 11/15/2007 2:47 AM |
Alert | I, for one, am glad that you finally responded to these allegations. I think your version of events provides quite a bit of clarity to this, though I'm not sure it helps your cause.
Your "dry sense of humor" towards DPS seems rather rude, though I can understand feeling upset as the target of a traffic stop. The parking lot incident, however, makes no sense whatsoever.
You were driving through the parking lot when someone "purposefully tried to walk in front of [your] car." You know, that's sort of what happens in parking lots. Pedestrians amble through them from point a to point b, and vehicles yield to them. Happens every day. Normally without developing into some sort of conflict.
Rather than let it go, you chose to berate the man as you passed by. Even if you were correct that he wandered in front of your car and was wrong to do so, you certainly weren't very magnanimous in victory. Stopping to badger someone who may have been wrong (and that is supposing one believes your version of events, that you were not speeding and that he wandered in front of your vehicle without checking for cross-traffic first) is not the way to go.
I have no idea how attempting to open your car door would constitute assault charges, since that does meet the statutory definition, so perhaps there is more to it that you left out. Either way, there was never any need to flash one's badge (or ID) at anyone, and there certainly was no need to stoop low enough as to refer to the Police Chief as someone who "works for you." No, sir. He works for all of us. You work for all of us. And those who work for all of us ought to have at least a little more restraint in public, and especially after flashing a badge. Once you do that, you are no longer Joe Estes, private citizen. You are Joe Estes, representative of the City of Maricopa and elected official of the same.
It's awfully difficult to believe your line about how you "could never be so arrogant" as to ask someone if he knew who you were, when your very next paragraph contains an admission that you did something remarkably similar on another occasion. Are you sure you want to send this letter off?
This whole affair is embarrassing and unnecessary. From your own words, it is easy to parse this down into an event that simply did not have to happen the way it did. While I believe most everyone has been in a "heat of the moment" situation where the chance has been there to either escalate it, let it go, or flash some ID; the last option is the one least likely employed, and most likely to be looked down upon. Your judgment here was poor, Mister Estes. But at least you had the courage to come here and say your piece. Even though I find this whole thing has tainted my opinion of you, I will certainly give you credit for being bold enough to show up and offer your side. Good day to you sir. | | | |
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| | Tempter
Posts:41
| | 11/15/2007 7:16 AM |
Alert | Again we have the usual and they wonder why no one wants to respond. These again are the same people who live in glass houses and throw stones because they have nothing better to do. Rather than participate in helping the town grow they sit in their recliners and attack the people who are doing that very thing. Joe understands that the very few that read these posts are in the minority, just as those that attack are few and far between. They are no more than town gossips that will continue attacking and criticizing no matter who runs the city.
Just for Clarification I am not Joe Estes and all the claims by Gila, Outrider and others on here goes to show what happens when accusations are false. It makes them look like fools. | | | |
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| | MaytagMan
Posts:43
| | 11/15/2007 7:37 AM |
Alert | | The Interim Tempter is in the office early. | | | |
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| | OutRider
Posts:89
| | 11/15/2007 8:10 AM |
Alert | No Tempter we knew you aren't Mr Estes and never said you were. In the other thread I stated you had all his same arguments word for word. This was to see what your position on Mr Estes was...which you gave us. Thanks 
While we may not approve of Mr Estes as a councilman we have to give him credit for answering the allegations. We may not fully believe his answers but still...you have to give the man credit for making the statement. As his wife stated (and I have found to be true) Joe will respond to his cell (I have never tryed the email route). For obvious reasons I want Joe's answers in writing and public so the cell option isn't always the best one.
You on the other hand are engaging in circular arguments. You don't answer direct questions. You answer questions with questions. You keep the subject about Estes when in fact this thread is about the tempter city manager. Wonder why that is? | | | |
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| | N75194
Posts:56
| | 11/15/2007 9:36 AM |
Alert | I'm sorry, but I would have to side with the newspaper on this one. Why would Ms. Hall put her and the paper in jeopardy for reporting false information? Before something goes out into the public, I am sure she checks on her sources and asks those in question for their responses to the allegations. I hope the City Council and Mayor sees this and asks for Kolman's resignation.
As for Mr. Estes, a city council member by himself is just another member in the community. It takes a quorum of council members to have authority to get anything done. To say that the police chief "Works for me" is a wrong statement to make, portraying to the rest of us that you are above the law and you have the police in your back pocket. If Mr. Estes' statement here is true, Dr. Keller could have handled the situation differently. But, there apparently is a problem with traffic on 347 and there are those who like to cut through the parking lot. Was Mr. Estes one of them?
If these allegations the paper is making is false, use your lawyer tactics and file a greviance with the paper. Ask for Ms. Hall to retract her story so you don't have to further file a lawsuit against the Maricopa Monitor and Casa Grande Valley Newspapers, Inc. (the parent company). I'm sure she would do so if she was in the wrong.
I'll be waiting for a "Breaking News" e-mail from the monitor with her retraction. Until then, I'm going to have to side with the news being reported. | |
Call Pinal County Elections to register to vote by mail. We need our citizens to show up to vote!
Don't forget to vote on May 20! | |
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| | N75194
Posts:56
| | 11/15/2007 9:44 AM |
Alert | Posted By Tempter on 11/15/2007 7:16 AM
Rather than participate in helping the town grow they sit in their recliners and attack the people who are doing that very thing. Joe understands that the very few that read these posts are in the minority, just as those that attack are few and far between. They are no more than town gossips that will continue attacking and criticizing no matter who runs the city.
Rather than attacking here on the forum, respond when the paper is asking for a response. If you cannot respond personally, ask for Jennifer Grentz (Public Relations for the city) to make a statement. Isn't that why you are paying her the big bucks? Yet, I don't see any comments coming from the city and because of this, would have to take the word of the news being reported. The Maricopa Monitor is far from gossip rag sheets you see waiting in line at Fry's. I've said this about Estes, if you feel that you are wronged, approach the paper for a retraction. If no response, bring it to a lawsuit. If you don't respond to allegations though, we the community will see it as a sign of guilt. | |
Call Pinal County Elections to register to vote by mail. We need our citizens to show up to vote!
Don't forget to vote on May 20! | |
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| | momeeof3
Posts:15
| | 11/15/2007 11:00 AM |
Alert | I think that in order to make an informed statement on this subject you need ALL of the facts. I wasn't their when these events took place so I am not going to jump to any conclusions on the matter.
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| | momeeof3
Posts:15
| | 11/15/2007 11:05 AM |
Alert | Posted By bear down on 11/14/2007 4:43 PM
Mommeeof3 - Based on what I can surmise by this thread and the other thread - the reason why Joe Estes returns your calls versus ours is because you probably need him to pick up some more milk.
I wish he was buying me milk. Have you looked at the prices of those things lately?
I don't know why he would be picking it up for me.
I think you need to go back and get ALL of the facts straight before you put your foot in your mouth.
I do take it as a complement when you say things like that. I could only be so lucky as to be married to someone like him.!!!!
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| | momeeof3
Posts:15
| | 11/15/2007 11:10 AM |
Alert | Posted By bear down on 11/14/2007 4:43 PM
Mommeeof3 - Based on what I can surmise by this thread and the other thread - the reason why Joe Estes returns your calls versus ours is because you probably need him to pick up some more milk.
srry double post,, stupid computer
Also the fuel to this crazy fire will have to be continued by someone else. I feel ( myself included as of late) that the majority of the people on this forum "NEED TO GET A LIFE". As the so called adults we claim to be, we need to make an effort to not spread gossip and we need to set a good example for our children. If we are spending our time with our heads in our computers " who is watching the children" I ask. I found out after my youngest child dumped water ALL over my house that it wasn't me. I wont have that any more.
For all of you with or without children " shame on you" Leave this man alone to do with his life what he wishes. How would you like to work so hard to be good a person only to have one bitter OLD woman TRY and tear it down. What would you do if the shoe was on the other foot? I know after speaking with Joe and his family that he is a good hearted person who is very giving of his time. The old saying is " Don't judge someone till you have walked a mile in his shoes" You will never know what goes on in his head; don't try and post other wise. Be careful carma is a vengful mistress. Good luck with all of you and your carma. | | | |
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| | Lano
Posts:275
| | 11/15/2007 11:14 AM |
Alert | A funny thing that stuck in my mind with Mr. Estes. When someone tried to organize a recall effort against him, I believe, if memory serves me right, did'nt he threaten to run for mayor if that were to occur? I thought there was a little bit of ego in that statement. But seriously, don't we all have a little ego thing going?? I do agree with some of his positions, and on others I scratch my head. No safety helmets for kids seemed like a softball, and I believe Mr. Estes and Mr. Dunn both whiffed on that one. I also believe transportation issues have'nt been addressed well by him and others on the council.
But I did agree with him on having Mr. Buss's position held to account. We're probably not going to agree on everything, but I believe with a wife and family he has the communities best interest at heart. | | | |
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| | BcuzIsaidSo
Posts:12
| | 11/15/2007 11:48 AM |
Alert | Posted By josephestes on 11/14/2007 10:47 PM
Although, these slanderous articles do not bother me anymore...
One would think an attorney would know the difference between slander and libel.
Slander is spoken.
Libel is written.
Therefore, the articles (if false) are libelous; not slanderous.
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| | maricopacabana
Posts:356
| | 11/15/2007 11:54 AM |
Alert | Posted By momeeof3 on 11/15/2007 11:10 AM As the so called adults we claim to be, we need to make an effort to not spread gossip and we need to set a good example for our children. If we are spending our time with our heads in our computers " who is watching the children" I ask. I found out after my youngest child dumped water ALL over my house that it wasn't me. I wont have that any more.
For all of you with or without children " shame on you" Leave this man alone to do with his life what he wishes. How would you like to work so hard to be good a person only to have one bitter OLD woman TRY and tear it down. What would you do if the shoe was on the other foot? As someone involved with the Recall I have tried to not resort to dramatics or personal attacks. My opinion is Mr. Estes current business relationships create a situation where he will be challenged in providing the best job he can to both the City and his client. I don't think there is any inherent evil plan on his behalf. I just think in this case we need less conflict of interest whether it's declared or not. We are participating in the system as is our right. I don't think name calling is productive. Now Momeeof3 apply your same standards with Kathy Hall. She is a citizen who cares about the city. She is doing her job. Yet you feel the need to call her bitter and old. Do you know Kathy? What does her age have to do with it? Do old people have fewer rights? What kind of example is this behaviour setting for your children? What kind of mileage is your Karma getting? Ultimately this will be decided by the people. Lets try and maintain some civility here. | | | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 11/16/2007 1:37 AM |
Alert | Posted By Tempter on 11/15/2007 7:16 AM
Again we have the usual and they wonder why no one wants to respond. These again are the same people who live in glass houses and throw stones because they have nothing better to do. Rather than participate in helping the town grow they sit in their recliners and attack the people who are doing that very thing. Joe understands that the very few that read these posts are in the minority, just as those that attack are few and far between. They are no more than town gossips that will continue attacking and criticizing no matter who runs the city.
Just for Clarification I am not Joe Estes and all the claims by Gila, Outrider and others on here goes to show what happens when accusations are false. It makes them look like fools.
If by "the usual", you mean that reasonable minds have questioned a very bizarre and unnecessary incident that involved an elected official, then you are correct. If you mean more than that, you are wildly overreaching.
There are plenty of ways to help a town grow. Keeping tax money local by patronizing local shops is one way, putting on a good face while in public so as not to turn off potential new residents is another. A good way not to help a town grow is by badgering a local business owner in a parking lot, and then flashing city credentials in the process. Your careless mudslinging aside, I am willing to bet that the vast majority of the folks who have read and posted in this thread have done the former, and that only one person who has read and posted in this thread has done the latter. You do the math, sir. It's your fote.
As for "claims" being made, you seem confused as to who is to blame. I did not make these claims. Nor did Outrider or anyone else in this thread. These claims were made by a newspaper reporter, and many were supported line-by-line in an explanation offered by the subject himself. This has nothing to do with anyone other than he who flashed City credentials at a local dentist in a parking lot. Despite your best attempts to make it otherwise. | | | |
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| | Fritzydoodle
Posts:1055
| | 11/16/2007 6:53 AM |
Alert | Rather than attacking here on the forum, respond when the paper is asking for a response. If you cannot respond personally, ask for Jennifer Grentz (Public Relations for the city) to make a statement.
This infers that Ms Grentz is authorized to send press releases for the city. On her own, in her capacity as Public Information Officer - she is not. A release was distributed that all information coming out of the City of Maricopa MUST be approved by the office of the City Manager prior to distribution. | |
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