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Subject: Church Profits 45M Plus / Is that OK?
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SinbadUser is Offline

Posts:3058


02/20/2008 3:23 PM Alert 
Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 3:16 PM
Posted By Sinbad on 02/20/2008 3:14 PM

It's called Politic's and it gets twisted a lot...



Yeah, and you and RichTig are doing the twisting.



Like you never twisted anything ...EVER.

 


Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
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San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these
SinbadUser is Offline

Posts:3058


02/20/2008 3:26 PM Alert 
I wonder why the City didn't approach the Mormans when they were offered the land first?


Heck ... they only wanted 3 acres. We could of had 2 more acres than this deal.

Great! We have a "restricted" Community Center. Who cares! as long as we have one..


Rubish!

Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
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San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these
mrwonderfulUser is Offline

Posts:282

02/20/2008 3:27 PM Alert 
The church needs to come out and tell the truth... The city and church already made there minds up on how this was gonna go. Lees2: The builder was doing stuff for themselves and im sure that the city was not buying some of the land. You took the deal to the city to get a approval. Now my question is how much does a soccer field take? In there poster last night it showed 2 soccer fields in that 10 acres can't we get 3?
frowfamUser is Offline

Posts:16

02/20/2008 3:29 PM Alert 
I did read the entire article, but must have mist the part about it being for Overflow only. If this is true then I would have to retract most of my comments on this deal and agree that its not a bad idea.

Also I really hope that this community center is just that. I hope the owners of the Church (Well not the Big guy owner, but the mortal owners. :-) ) will help the community come together and that they will not discriminate against who can and can't use the community center.

Again if the church has adequate parking for their staff and customers, and the overflow is used mostly for special events like Christmas and Easter, then this is a good move. However if the church is bending on the public parking lot to operate their business then again it just not right. Sure the tax payers are paying for it so they should be able to use it. But again look at this as if it was not a church, people would be outraged if walmart got a free parking lot, sure the customers using it are tax payers and they are the ones using it, but parking it part of running a brick and mortar business, customers need to be able to reach you establishment . Its like the city paying for their electric bill, that would get people outraged just as much.
drummer72User is Offline

Posts:3886


02/20/2008 3:29 PM Alert 
PLEASE MAKE A JOGGING PATH TOO!!!!

"Everything for everyone and nothing for ourselves"
CODEBLEUUser is Offline

Posts:306

02/20/2008 3:31 PM Alert 
Well since their only paying $10 per year for the use of this parking lot that the tax payers own and maintain what would you call it Jason?

On a side note, you really have to tip your hat to Akers & Smith. These guy's were holding meetings in front of Rancho El Dorado a couple of years ago. They have increased their following tremendously and now have the smarts to strike a deal for their church. Not only did they beat out every other church in town for this land of worship but they also convinced Marty and the boys at City Hall to buy into building them a parking lot.

Pastors, Businessmen, Men above Men, call them what you want but these guys are onto something. Non-Profit Organizations categorized as Worship Organizations are increasingly popular throughout this country for some time now. The Bush Administration has made it easier for them to take advantage of tax laws sheltering millions of dollars every year. Its upholding our constitutional right to freedom of religion that these organizations are afforded such wide latitude from everything concerning Tax Law & Audits to Land Rights.

So they got what they wanted but I think they lost some respect doing so. Thats really the shame of it as all they had to do was be patient and work harder at raising enough money to build their church and parking lot. Instead they decided to orchestrate the demands made on this land that was intended for worship. Somehow, I think they will regret the political maneuvearing it took to get this deal done when they realize that a good deal of respect was lost here.
RabbitUser is Offline

Posts:250

02/20/2008 3:34 PM Alert 
I wonder why the City didn't approach the Mormans when they were offered the land first?


maybe the city didnt approach this church (dont even know which one, is how much i care about church, heh) ...maybe they approached the city?

"Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to. Then on the way out, slam the door."
RabbitUser is Offline

Posts:250

02/20/2008 3:37 PM Alert 
they also convinced Marty and the boys at City Hall to buy into building them a parking lot.


seriously? lol...i think that im done in this thread, just because people cant seem to comprehend what they read.

the city is building the church a parking lot. they are renting (for a nice cheap price) the new publicly owned parking lot to the church for occasional overflow parking, for a really cheap price. likely, as a favor to the church, for helping the city get such a good price on the land.

"Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don't know what your rights are, or who the person is you're talking to. Then on the way out, slam the door."
JasonUser is Offline

Posts:3378


02/20/2008 4:01 PM Alert 

Posted By CODEBLEU on 02/20/2008 3:31 PM
Well since their only paying $10 per year for the use of this parking lot that the tax payers own and maintain what would you call it Jason?

I would say that you forgot that the church goers are tax payers too.


Joined: Jul 2005
LetsFixItUser is Offline

Posts:52


02/20/2008 4:10 PM Alert 
Jason, didn't I hear you complain about tax dollars for sick people? Didn't you say that the government was robbing you? Yet it's okay for others to be taxed for a church? Excuse me but isn't that a little hypercritical? Or did I just misunderstand what you said about Universal health care?
JasonUser is Offline

Posts:3378


02/20/2008 4:55 PM Alert 
Posted By LetsFixIt on 02/20/2008 4:10 PM
Jason, didn't I hear you complain about tax dollars for sick people? Didn't you say that the government was robbing you? Yet it's okay for others to be taxed for a church? Excuse me but isn't that a little hypercritical? Or did I just misunderstand what you said about Universal health care?



I don't think that was me. Can you find the post?


Joined: Jul 2005
maricopacabanaUser is Offline

Posts:356


02/21/2008 10:02 AM Alert 
Posted By Sinbad on 02/20/2008 10:36 AM
See..

Here's my problem with this deal.

1. Before they built the park, they did a population growth projection. This projection was used to decide how big the park would have to be for now until they can build the next big park. They built this park and the population growth that was estimated hasn't been reached yet. So, Why do we need a bigger park? Why not wait for the huge park that should be buit soon?

This wrong.  The park size was solely determined by Element Homes.  The developer that donated the land to the City.  The City received the land for free and built it out with City funds.
JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:3446


02/21/2008 12:03 PM Alert 
Let's build a real library before we build another park.

"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black
MaryManUser is Offline

Posts:12

02/21/2008 6:27 PM Alert 

Ok, did I miss something?

Mayoral Candidate Godsey says this:

"I have received several emails from worried citizens because of recent developments in the city. At the last city council meeting, the topic of the Community of Hope land purchase was voted unanimously to approve despite an outcry from the public for more information."

Did I miss the public outcry? Public OUTCRY? Shouldn't that be like a roomfull of people speaking out against the approval for the purchase of the land?

There was one man. A crazy one, at that. Does one man make a public outcry?

Godsey was there. He didn't speak out! He didn't speak out! Doesn't he claim to be the candidate to speak out and represent the people? Where were you Tuesday night Godsey? It was your opportunity to shine and you failed the people.  But you can go to your website and claim that everyone else failed.  If this alone does not tell you something about this candidate, you are missing something big.  Where were you on your opportunity to prove your dedication to the people of Maricopa?

Unless of course Robbie was your spokesperson? Is he the person who spoke for you and the public? Are you connected? Will you take a lie detector test to prove you are not?

MaryManUser is Offline

Posts:12

02/21/2008 6:32 PM Alert 
Azcarcarrier was there also! Where was your comment card? Why didn't you speak out?

I'm sure you have a nice reason for not speaking out publically, yet condeming people behind your screenname.
DesertDwellerUser is Offline

Posts:2569


02/21/2008 8:20 PM Alert 

Okay, I’m going to speak slowly here so that I am not misunderstood:  The parking lot is a city-owned parking lot.  The church is building their own parking lot as per the building requirements specified by the City Planning Department.  There are two different parking lots.  The church builds theirs, and the City does likewise.  Now, if the church needs overflow parking on Sunday mornings, they have an agreement with the city to use the city-owned parking lot.

Why ten bucks a year?  Because in order for there to be a contract, there has to be “consideration”, or the exchange of something real and valuable.  That’s why you see things like a nominal fee contract or a one-dollar buyout at the end of a lease.  The monetary consideration makes the exchange legal and binding. 

I wanted to make sure I had this right.  I do.  This has been verified by the Communicator, the Monitor, and the Tribune editors yesterday afternoon.  I also called Marty MacDonald about a quarter to six last evening.  I asked him to expand upon the parking lot agreement and any scheduled programs on Sunday mornings during the “priority hours”.   He stated that they do not run youth programs on Sunday mornings and, aside from four softball tournaments a year, they refrain from scheduling activities on Sunday mornings altogether. He did state they will program adult softball leagues on Sunday afternoons. He further stated that if the city were to have a two-day art festival, they maintain control of the parking lot. There are provisions in the license agreement that give city final control over the parking lot and damages, general maintenance costs that occur in church overflow situations are the burden of the church.  Marty also pointed out that directly across from where the church will be building is a brand new elementary school with a wide open parking lot that can be used by anyone on the weekends.

I asked him about the lot split and costs associated with that because a lot has been made of the $27,000 difference between what the church paid and what the city paid for the property.   He told me wished he talked about that during the meeting but the public distraction that Robbie Olson created by verbally attacking Councilman Dunn threw things out the window The costs associated with the land surveys, lot splits, due diligence reports, appraisal, etc. were taken on by the church.   So, there were no other taxpayer expenses other than land costs and typical closing fees.

I don’t know what the personal vendetta is between Robbie Olson and the COH, Will Dunn, and others, but it seems to have escalated to the point of obsession.  I was told that he actually waited for Will to leave the meeting.  Waited.  That’s scary.  I hope that one of the media outlets who was there picked up on this and will report on it. 

People who know me know that I have no problem pointing out when I think the City is wrong.  If you go back and look at my posts on the Peed property deal, you will find that I started the thread and kept the pressure on until the Council finally backed out of the deal.  I also criticized the way they threw good money after bad by keeping their options open and then paying penalties to the seller.  I have spoken out against prayer at council meetings and having council meetings in a church.  To the dismay of some, I believe that government should be inclusive of everyone and that a particular religion or belief, or lack thereof, shouldn’t influence the process of governing. 

I do not attend church and have no affiliation with Community of Hope.  Rusty Akers wouldn’t know who I was if he found me sitting in his lap with a lollipop.  Nevertheless, I have absolutely no doubt that he is doing the best thing for his congregation and the best thing for the community.   

You can bash the city, Marty, COH, etc. but they all did a darn good job on this deal.  They should be recognized for doing a deal for the purpose of benefit to the community rather than the personal interest of individuals.  


Stupid should hurt!

Desert Dweller - Senior Member - Posts: 2982 - Joined: Feb 2006
golf_rules2User is Offline

Posts:0

02/21/2008 11:08 PM Alert 
I would like to know where Godsey was and why he didn't speak out at the city council meeting!

He can sure throw the mud on his own website, but why didn't he do what he has been promising everyone he would do and speak out against this if he thought it was handled so poorly?

Why didn't you speak on Tuesday night, Mr. Godsey?
TheSmokingGunUser is Offline

Posts:0

02/21/2008 11:25 PM Alert 
here's another "view" on Tuesday night. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/109581
TheSmokingGunUser is Offline

Posts:0

02/21/2008 11:31 PM Alert 

Godsey is a Monday Morning QB.  Nothing more, nothing less.   amazing he didn't speak.

DesertDwellerUser is Offline

Posts:2569


02/21/2008 11:56 PM Alert 

So, according to the article:

"Resident Robbie Olson, who questioned the ethics of the deal in a recent editorial seen on an online media Web site, again spoke out against the deal at the meeting, saying the church was using the city to buy their land by charging a premium on the acreage.

Tensions flared when Olson refused to back down, attacking Dunn personally on other matters. The council responded with an emphatic roll call with each member voting in favor of the deal."

Two words:  personal vendetta.  A couple more:  zero credibility.

I wouldn't take Robbie Olson seriously on this or any other cause he took up.


Stupid should hurt!

Desert Dweller - Senior Member - Posts: 2982 - Joined: Feb 2006
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