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| | Author | Messages | |
drummer72
Posts:3075


 | | 02/28/2008 11:13 PM |
Alert | Posted By LampLiteSniper on 02/28/2008 5:27 PM Posted By drummer72 on 02/28/2008 4:24 PM Posted By LampLiteSniper on 02/28/2008 1:43 PM My buddies dad was in Hanoi with him after he got shot down, he can go on for hours about McCain, but to his defense, you can't really say what you would do in the situation unless you were there. Fearing for your life everyday is something most people in this country are not used to and not ready for unless you are already prepared to die. So living life in utter paranoia is better? Yes it must suck to be like you and know you're alone in this world with your thoughts, I don't feel for you though, I could really care less. Me,alone? Step away from the bong. | | OBAMA NATION! | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789


 | | 02/29/2008 3:42 AM |
Alert | Posted By Marni on 02/28/2008 10:08 PM
I didn't mean to come across as crass with those who have lost thier lives to factaul terrorism. It does exist. However, the way Bush throws that word around, it appears he wants us to live in fear. I think if you believe the talking points from those opposed to Bush, you can get that sentiment. I have plenty of bones to pick with him and his decision-making process, but this isn't one of them, and shouldn't be. I personally don't feel he is trying to get folks to live in fear, I think he is trying to point out that we do, in fact, life in a different era than we used to. And part of living in that era is being cognizant of the fact that there are, in fact, folks that would prefer us dead...and that coddling those folks does not do us any good. Bush has never asked people not to travel, to put their lives on hold, to hide in the basement, to stop buying things and save all their money for the approaching end of the world...nothing of the sort. Instead, what did he say in his first major speech after 9/11? He urged Americans to walk outside with their heads held high. He urged them to get on those planes the moment the FAA reopened airspace. He urged us all to go shopping, maybe buy that car we were thinking of purchasing earlier, maybe treat ourselves to something special, knowing that this money would help prop up an economy rattled by nerves. He did his best to soothe the populace while asking that we merely be prepared in case anything were to happen again. When he ran in 2004, he mentioned terrorism because it was a place where he could differentiate himself from John Kerry. Bush was correct that he had taken steps to protect Americans...uncluding widely unpopular and possibly overbroad steps like the PATRIOT Act, etc. Historical analysts who have reviewed his speeches and are smarter than I am do not agree that he played on fear...he merely did what all candidates do. He harped repeatedly on what he felt his central accomplishment had been. In his case, it was protecting Americans from a second major attack at home. He didn't have much more to tout, so that was his schtick. Looking at it objectively and not emotionally, I think that becomes pretty clear. The problem is that so many of us disagree with the man that we're too willing to jump on whatever paints him as a villain. In this particular case, I think it is a bit of a stretch. | | | |
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| | JasonY
Posts:1874


 | | 02/29/2008 11:07 AM |
Alert | | Nuke Iraq and Iran. Use northern Pakistan as a practice run. | | "Your village called.........they're missing their idiot" | |
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| | LampLiteSniper
Posts:463


 | | 02/29/2008 11:13 AM |
Alert | | That would be the most horrible mistake we ever will make. | | | |
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| | hastings1066
Posts:784


 | | 02/29/2008 11:22 AM |
Alert | Posted By Marni on 02/28/2008 10:08 PM
I didn't mean to come across as crass with those who have lost their lives to factual terrorism. It does exist. However, the way Bush throws that word around, it appears he wants us to live in fear.
Please give examples of times when Bush said that Americans should live in fear (quotes would be good). GilaGuy gave you examples of the opposite, we wait with anticipation for your examples of your claims. Please note that political speeches by candidates for office are just that, political rhetoric, not proof of anything. Expecting truth from a political candidate is like expecting charity from your banker. | | | |
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| | missPolitick
Posts:628


 | | 02/29/2008 3:09 PM |
Alert | Bush can throw that word around all he wants. I am legitimately afraid of what terrorists are capable of. They are not a buzzword. They are raging with hatred and fearing them is more important than fearing gas prices, fearing healthcare costs, fearing education policy, etc...
It doesn't mean I won't live my life as usual, but I hold it as the #1 issue when considering which President will be making decisions regarding my existance. | | Despite All My Rage I Am Still Just A Rat In A Cage | |
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| | caveman
Posts:1014


 | | 02/29/2008 6:04 PM |
Alert | Posted By jhall on 02/28/2008 8:36 PM
not to mention...
April 1983: 17 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut.
October 1983: 241 dead at the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut.
December 1983: five dead at the U.S. embassy in Kuwait.
January 1984: the president of the American University of Beirut killed.
April 1984: 18 dead near a U.S. airbase in Spain.
September 1984: 16 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut (again).
December 1984: Two dead on a plane hijacked to Tehran.
June 1985: One dead on a plane hijacked to Beirut.
After a let-up, the attacks then restarted: Five and 19 dead in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and 1996, 224 dead at the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998 and 17 dead on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000.
Simultaneously, the murderous assault of militant Islam also took place on U.S. soil:
July 1980: an Iranian dissident killed in the Washington, D.C. area.
August 1983: a leader of the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam killed in Canton, Mich.
August 1984: three Indians killed in a suburb of Tacoma, Wash.
September 1986: a doctor killed in Augusta, Ga.
January 1990: an Egyptian freethinker killed in Tucson, Ariz.
November 1990: a Jewish leader killed in New York.
February 1991: an Egyptian Islamist killed in New York.
January 1993: two CIA staff killed outside agency headquarters in Langley, Va.
February 1993: Six people killed at the World Trade Center.
March 1994: an Orthodox Jewish boy killed on the Brooklyn Bridge.
February 1997: a Danish tourist killed on the Empire State building.
October 1999: 217 passengers killed on an EgyptAir flight near New York City.
In all, 800 persons lost their lives in the course of attacks by militant Islam on Americans before September 2001 - more than killed by any other enemy since the Vietnam War.
but hey terrorism is just a plug word.... http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html Take a look at this. Some of the leading causes of death in the US Major Cardiovasular Diseases 936,923 Chronic Lower Resperitory Dis. 122,009 Motor Vehicle Accidents 43,354 Firearms 28,663 OMG OMG OMG Looks like we do a fine job killing ourselves with Firearms far more than terrorists do and that was only in one year. Look at the cardiovascular disease, too much McDonalds for us. With all those motor vechicle accidents we better start a war on cars. Jhall your stats are boring and pointless. | | | |
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| | caveman
Posts:1014


 | | 02/29/2008 6:07 PM |
Alert | Posted By missPolitick on 02/29/2008 3:09 PM
Bush can throw that word around all he wants. I am legitimately afraid of what terrorists are capable of. They are not a buzzword. They are raging with hatred and fearing them is more important than fearing gas prices, fearing healthcare costs, fearing education policy, etc...
It doesn't mean I won't live my life as usual, but I hold it as the #1 issue when considering which President will be making decisions regarding my existance. You better lookout they are plotting against Maricopa as we speak. Were you one of the people that bought land in the desert due to the year 2000 scare? | | | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789


 | | 02/29/2008 7:43 PM |
Alert | Posted By missPolitick on 02/29/2008 3:09 PM
Bush can throw that word around all he wants. I am legitimately afraid of what terrorists are capable of. They are not a buzzword. They are raging with hatred and fearing them is more important than fearing gas prices, fearing healthcare costs, fearing education policy, etc...
It doesn't mean I won't live my life as usual, but I hold it as the #1 issue when considering which President will be making decisions regarding my existance. In that case, the issue is not George W Bush, it is your own fear. His using a word for folks who are legitimately out there and legitimately want to harm us isn't fearmongering, it is keeping us informed of a real possibility. Put it this way...if he said nothing and we were hit again by a large-scale terror attack, how would we all feel knowing that President Bush had known about this and said nothing to warn us? See what I'm getting at? It's an unwinnable position from his perspective...so he keeps us all informed as best he can in order to help us stay prepared. Fearing anything else such as rising gas prices is fine, there is room for that too. But accusing Bush of fearmongering is simply too much a stretch for those who rely on analysis and not emotion. As for the matter at hand...you mention that terrorism is your number one concern. Do you believe a candidate with almost no national experience whatsoever can enter a job with the world's steepest learning curve and keep us safer than someone with more command-level experience? | | | |
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| | missPolitick
Posts:628


 | | 03/03/2008 9:10 AM |
Alert | | No, I don't. I'm not sure I follow you GilaGuy. | | Despite All My Rage I Am Still Just A Rat In A Cage | |
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| | caveman
Posts:1014


 | | 03/03/2008 1:04 PM |
Alert | Posted By GilaGuy on 02/29/2008 7:43 PM Posted By missPolitick on 02/29/2008 3:09 PM
Bush can throw that word around all he wants. I am legitimately afraid of what terrorists are capable of. They are not a buzzword. They are raging with hatred and fearing them is more important than fearing gas prices, fearing healthcare costs, fearing education policy, etc...
It doesn't mean I won't live my life as usual, but I hold it as the #1 issue when considering which President will be making decisions regarding my existance. In that case, the issue is not George W Bush, it is your own fear. His using a word for folks who are legitimately out there and legitimately want to harm us isn't fearmongering, it is keeping us informed of a real possibility. Put it this way...if he said nothing and we were hit again by a large-scale terror attack, how would we all feel knowing that President Bush had known about this and said nothing to warn us? See what I'm getting at? It's an unwinnable position from his perspective...so he keeps us all informed as best he can in order to help us stay prepared. Fearing anything else such as rising gas prices is fine, there is room for that too. But accusing Bush of fearmongering is simply too much a stretch for those who rely on analysis and not emotion. Bush did fearmonger. Everytime the administration was catching heat around the last election the terror level would rise. I haven't heard a thing about the terror level since. Bush also inferred that if you elected a Democrat the country would be unsafe, nonsense. As for the matter at hand...you mention that terrorism is your number one concern. Do you believe a candidate with almost no national experience whatsoever can enter a job with the world's steepest learning curve and keep us safer than someone with more command-level experience? I would rather have someone with little experience and the fire in their belly than someone who is corrupt and knows how to get away with it. | | | |
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| | jhall
Posts:1054


 | | 03/03/2008 1:15 PM |
Alert | Posted By caveman on 02/29/2008 6:04 PM Posted By jhall on 02/28/2008 8:36 PM
not to mention...
April 1983: 17 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut.
October 1983: 241 dead at the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut.
December 1983: five dead at the U.S. embassy in Kuwait.
January 1984: the president of the American University of Beirut killed.
April 1984: 18 dead near a U.S. airbase in Spain.
September 1984: 16 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut (again).
December 1984: Two dead on a plane hijacked to Tehran.
June 1985: One dead on a plane hijacked to Beirut.
After a let-up, the attacks then restarted: Five and 19 dead in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and 1996, 224 dead at the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998 and 17 dead on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000.
Simultaneously, the murderous assault of militant Islam also took place on U.S. soil:
July 1980: an Iranian dissident killed in the Washington, D.C. area.
August 1983: a leader of the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam killed in Canton, Mich.
August 1984: three Indians killed in a suburb of Tacoma, Wash.
September 1986: a doctor killed in Augusta, Ga.
January 1990: an Egyptian freethinker killed in Tucson, Ariz.
November 1990: a Jewish leader killed in New York.
February 1991: an Egyptian Islamist killed in New York.
January 1993: two CIA staff killed outside agency headquarters in Langley, Va.
February 1993: Six people killed at the World Trade Center.
March 1994: an Orthodox Jewish boy killed on the Brooklyn Bridge.
February 1997: a Danish tourist killed on the Empire State building.
October 1999: 217 passengers killed on an EgyptAir flight near New York City.
In all, 800 persons lost their lives in the course of attacks by militant Islam on Americans before September 2001 - more than killed by any other enemy since the Vietnam War.
but hey terrorism is just a plug word.... http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html Take a look at this. Some of the leading causes of death in the US Major Cardiovasular Diseases 936,923 Chronic Lower Resperitory Dis. 122,009 Motor Vehicle Accidents 43,354 Firearms 28,663 OMG OMG OMG Looks like we do a fine job killing ourselves with Firearms far more than terrorists do and that was only in one year. Look at the cardiovascular disease, too much McDonalds for us. With all those motor vechicle accidents we better start a war on cars. Jhall your stats are boring and pointless.
Not as much as your avatar looser | | A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson | |
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| | caveman
Posts:1014


 | | 03/03/2008 9:56 PM |
Alert | | Thanks jhall you just admitted you were owned. | | | |
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| | drummer72
Posts:3075


 | | 03/03/2008 11:18 PM |
Alert | | | OBAMA NATION! | |
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| | drummer72
Posts:3075


 | | 03/03/2008 11:19 PM |
Alert | Jhall's just upset that he had flat feet and couldn't inlist in the navy. | | OBAMA NATION! | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789


 | | 03/04/2008 9:05 AM |
Alert | Posted By missPolitick on 03/03/2008 9:10 AM
No, I don't. I'm not sure I follow you GilaGuy.
It happens. 
My question was this: Since you have mentioned that you find terrorism to be your biggest concern, what gives you the feeling that someone with no relatable experience would be the best choice to counter that? Posted By caveman: Bush did fearmonger. Everytime the administration was catching heat around the last election the terror level would rise. I haven't heard a thing about the terror level since. Bush also inferred that if you elected a Democrat the country would be unsafe, nonsense. Again, all subjective and ripped from leftist talking points. I think the terror alert system is pretty ridiculous but there was no correlation between the raising of alert levels and the Bush Administration "catching heat." Primarily, this is an impossible point to make because the definition of "catching heat" varies from one person to the next. Not to mention the fact that the Bush Administration has been "catching heat" for years (some it it quite justifiable, in my opinion) which makes it impossible to pick a certain time to parse. Beyond that, the terror alert level was raised only when there were credible and/or actionable threats received. This information was not only never in dispute by anyone inside our outside the Administration (even those Democrats privy to the information), it was corroborated by George Tenet, a Clinton appointee who was known to be no fan of President Bush. Bush's inference that the electing of a Democrat would lead to less stability wasn't fearmongering any more than Kerry's "we need to end this war before more of them come after us" schtick was. It was typical election-year drivel designed to point out the opponent's weakness. Kerry wished to call it a day in Iraq, Bush thought that would open it up into a Somalia-like terrorist haven. His inference, however silly, was based on that notion and that notion alone. If one wishes to call that fearmongering, then one has to accept that Kerry and his side offered the exact same thing in reverse. I don't think either of it is true...I think both just tried to paint the other as hell-bent on sending us in the wrong direction. Typical election-year verbiage. Posted By caveman: I would rather have someone with little experience and the fire in their belly than someone who is corrupt and knows how to get away with it. I agree with your assessment of Mrs. Clinton, so I can understand that sentiment somewhat. But what of Obama's corrupt dealings with Rezko? If anyone actually thought Obama had "fire in the belly," that thought disappeared last night when he ran out of a press conference in which reporters finally started asking him the sorts of questions they'd been asking other candidates all along. It was rather embarrassing to behold, and was yet another piece of evidence pointing towards his being a bit too green for the position he seeks. | | | |
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| | missPolitick
Posts:628


 | | 03/04/2008 9:13 AM |
Alert | GG, I don't understand what you're implying. I feel like, of our wonderful choices of candidates, John McCain would give terrorism the most attention. I don't think he underestimates the capabilities of Al Qaeda. Wouldn't you say he has more experience with it than Clinton or Obama? | | Despite All My Rage I Am Still Just A Rat In A Cage | |
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| | jhall
Posts:1054


 | | 03/04/2008 10:12 AM |
Alert | Posted By caveman on 03/03/2008 9:56 PM
Thanks jhall you just admitted you were owned.
Hardly... but thanks for putting words in my mouth.... Don't you have some trees to save or something to protest at?
| | A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson | |
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| | jhall
Posts:1054


 | | 03/04/2008 10:14 AM |
Alert | Posted By drummer72 on 03/03/2008 11:19 PM Jhall's just upset that he had flat feet and couldn't inlist in the navy. O drummergirl... you know me so well... *shakes head in confusion* So how did that self validation topic go? Everyone still think you're a twelve year old girl trapped in a 45 year old perverts body? | | A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson | |
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| | caveman
Posts:1014


 | | 03/04/2008 11:48 AM |
Alert | Posted By jhall on 03/04/2008 10:12 AM Posted By caveman on 03/03/2008 9:56 PM
Thanks jhall you just admitted you were owned.
Hardly... but thanks for putting words in my mouth.... Don't you have some trees to save or something to protest at?
Again personal attacks because you can not argue a position intelligently like GilaGuy. | | | |
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