Jason
Posts:3378
 | | 02/20/2008 2:00 PM |
 Alert | Instead the church is going to make a profit by selling the land for a profit to the city, and then gets a $10 a year parking lot.
How much profit? I don't think it's $27,000.
Think about it like this. If this deal was not with a Church, but rather with a grocery store, would you be ok with it then?
Grocery stores are not non-profits, and I think it's a pretty audacious claim without proof that the church is operating as a business under the guise of being a non-profit. And besides which, you're overlooking that we're getting the use of a building out of the deal.
I don't think there would be such an outcry if Kimberly or another pet sitter were to build a pet rescue and she were getting a little funding out of the deal to get things running. I think that because this is a church, people are outraged. | |
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Sinbad
Posts:3046
| | 02/20/2008 2:01 PM |
Alert | Posted By ken on 02/20/2008 1:25 PM
All this talk about back room deals and such is crazy. You all accuse the city of not revealing any details when they were clearly presented as they should have been at the city counsel meeting. How else do you suggest these kind of things should happen? Are we supposed to tape every conversation that happens at city hall for playback later? To think the city is not allowed to conduct negotiations before the actual meeting is ludicrous and to expect the city to reveal all the details of those negotiations before they are complete is counter intuitive as it may spoil any upper hand the city may have in dealing with other parties. As I've said in the past... this deal is not the issue everyone is saying it is. In fact it is really a good example of how well the city can run.
See.. the above Quote is how some people are happy with things are being ran.
1. This isn't San Diego, LA, or Phoenix...This is Maricopa. A small city with limited resourse. 2. The deal was done way before any of this info was released The church wouldn't have bought the land if the city wasn't going to back them 3. What's up with the $10 a year for the use of a $500,000 parking lot? That's crazy! You can forget about parking there on a Sunday with Games and church going on at the same time. 4. They are making money on it. If the developer was selling this land for religious use. How is it that the church can strike a deal with the city and before they even own it? I am pretty sure there should a problem with that. That's 10 acres NOT used for religious purposes. 5. Why was it keep so HUSH HUSH? Read the article.... | |
Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 02/20/2008 2:03 PM |
Alert | The bad thing is the city maintaining the parking lot for a church, that just does not make sense.
No, the city is maintaining the parking lot for the park. TAX PAYING citizens are asking to use it a small portion of the time. Are you really arguing that tax payers don't have the right to use property that their tax dollars built just because they are a church?
wacky christians
And now we see what your slant is.
Also how Christian is it for the church to make a profit off the city that it is located in?
You have yet to show how they are making a profit. You need to present how much the church is paying in acquisition fees.
It already makes a profit off of the citizens that show up
Do you even understand the meaning of the word profit?
Its like the city is willing to deal with the church as if it was a business to purchase the land, but then after that they treat it like a non-profit / community project and accommodate its running of business by providing a essential and expensive service at almost no cost ($10 a year, what a joke).
Proof, you have none. | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 02/20/2008 2:04 PM |
Alert | Posted By Sinbad on 02/20/2008 2:01 PM Posted By ken on 02/20/2008 1:25 PM
All this talk about back room deals and such is crazy. You all accuse the city of not revealing any details when they were clearly presented as they should have been at the city counsel meeting. How else do you suggest these kind of things should happen? Are we supposed to tape every conversation that happens at city hall for playback later? To think the city is not allowed to conduct negotiations before the actual meeting is ludicrous and to expect the city to reveal all the details of those negotiations before they are complete is counter intuitive as it may spoil any upper hand the city may have in dealing with other parties. As I've said in the past... this deal is not the issue everyone is saying it is. In fact it is really a good example of how well the city can run.
See.. the above Quote is how some people are happy with things are being ran.
1. This isn't San Diego, LA, or Phoenix...This is Maricopa. A small city with limited resourse. 2. The deal was done way before any of this info was released The church wouldn't have bought the land if the city wasn't going to back them 3. What's up with the $10 a year for the use of a $500,000 parking lot? That's crazy! You can forget about parking there on a Sunday with Games and church going on at the same time. 4. They are making money on it. If the developer was selling this land for religious use. How is it that the church can strike a deal with the city and before they even own it? I am pretty sure there should a problem with that. That's 10 acres NOT used for religious purposes. 5. Why was it keep so HUSH HUSH? Read the article....
Your comments remind me of another comment you made: smoke and mirrors. | |
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Sinbad
Posts:3046
| | 02/20/2008 2:08 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 1:36 PM So, the church is profiting 27k and they are getting a free parking lot. They must know someone in city government to get that sweet deal.
The parking lot is for the park. You're saying that the citizens who paid for it can't use it just because they go to a church?
Speaking of sweet deals, it looks like we're getting a building to use too.  I'm not entirely sure about the $27,000 profit either. 85239 didn't report the actual cost for the church to acquire, so there may be no profit at all.
It's not the Cities building. It belongs to the Church. So the Church will make the rules on how the building will be used...Not the citizens of Maricopa. Let's not forget that fact.
On the other hand... I still want to know if they are going to have all of the church stuff up in a Community Center 7 days a week. If so, than that isn't fair to the people who don't believe in god. | |
Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
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San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 02/20/2008 2:10 PM |
Alert | It's not the Cities building. It belongs to the Church. So the Church will make the rules on how the building will be used...Not the citizens of Maricopa. Let's not forget that fact.
I'm not forgetting that. But they are allowing the use of it, which some people are convieniently forgetting. Let's not forget that it will be the curch's land and building after all.
On the other hand... I still want to know if they are going to have all of the church stuff up in a Community Center 7 days a week. If so, than that isn't fair to the people who don't believe in god.
#1) Why don't you ask someone that can actually answer your question?
#2) Are people so closed and narrow-minded that they can't even look at "church stuff" because they don't believe in God? | |
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Sinbad
Posts:3046
| | 02/20/2008 2:16 PM |
Alert | I think that because this is a church, people are outraged.
No.. it's the way the deal went down that is making me upset. To just hide it from the public until it's too late? Stupid or smart.. how ever you put it.
This is just another RICK BUS move...I seem to recall you not being down for that one...I remember a lot of you were mad about that...It too was hush hush until the deal was done. | |
Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
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San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
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Sinbad
Posts:3046
| | 02/20/2008 2:18 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 2:04 PM Posted By Sinbad on 02/20/2008 2:01 PM Posted By ken on 02/20/2008 1:25 PM
All this talk about back room deals and such is crazy. You all accuse the city of not revealing any details when they were clearly presented as they should have been at the city counsel meeting. How else do you suggest these kind of things should happen? Are we supposed to tape every conversation that happens at city hall for playback later? To think the city is not allowed to conduct negotiations before the actual meeting is ludicrous and to expect the city to reveal all the details of those negotiations before they are complete is counter intuitive as it may spoil any upper hand the city may have in dealing with other parties. As I've said in the past... this deal is not the issue everyone is saying it is. In fact it is really a good example of how well the city can run.
See.. the above Quote is how some people are happy with things are being ran.
1. This isn't San Diego, LA, or Phoenix...This is Maricopa. A small city with limited resourse. 2. The deal was done way before any of this info was released The church wouldn't have bought the land if the city wasn't going to back them 3. What's up with the $10 a year for the use of a $500,000 parking lot? That's crazy! You can forget about parking there on a Sunday with Games and church going on at the same time. 4. They are making money on it. If the developer was selling this land for religious use. How is it that the church can strike a deal with the city and before they even own it? I am pretty sure there should a problem with that. That's 10 acres NOT used for religious purposes. 5. Why was it keep so HUSH HUSH? Read the article....
Your comments remind me of another comment you made: smoke and mirrors.
And your comment reminds me of Bad Mexican food!
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Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
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San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 02/20/2008 2:19 PM |
Alert | Posted By Sinbad on 02/20/2008 2:16 PM I think that because this is a church, people are outraged.
No.. it's the way the deal went down that is making me upset. To just hide it from the public until it's too late? Stupid or smart.. how ever you put it.
This is just another RICK BUS move...I seem to recall you not being down for that one...I remember a lot of you were mad about that...It too was hush hush until the deal was done.
You're right, except for one very important fact: This deal isn't done. There has been plenty of opportunity to comment. I mean, IT'S JUST LIKE THE RICK BUSS DEAL, except for this important factoid, but don't worry about that, says Sinbad...
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Sinbad
Posts:3046
| | 02/20/2008 2:22 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 2:10 PM It's not the Cities building. It belongs to the Church. So the Church will make the rules on how the building will be used...Not the citizens of Maricopa. Let's not forget that fact.
I'm not forgetting that. But they are allowing the use of it, which some people are convieniently forgetting. Let's not forget that it will be the curch's land and building after all. On the other hand... I still want to know if they are going to have all of the church stuff up in a Community Center 7 days a week. If so, than that isn't fair to the people who don't believe in god.
#1) Why don't you ask someone that can actually answer your question?
#2) Are people so closed and narrow-minded that they can't even look at "church stuff" because they don't believe in God?
Yes they are! Remember the Pledge of allegiance.
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Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
______________________________________
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San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 02/20/2008 2:24 PM |
Alert | Yes they are! Remember the Pledge of allegiance.
It would seem a small, but irritating and annoyingly vocal minority are so closed-minded. Why should we capitulate to their wishes? | |
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RichTig
Posts:0
| | 02/20/2008 2:32 PM |
Alert | The city is subsidizing the church by building and maintaining the parking lot. How many other churches in Maricopa had their parking lot paved by the city? Which church does the mayor attend? | | | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 02/20/2008 2:35 PM |
Alert | Posted By RichTig on 02/20/2008 2:32 PM The city is subsidizing the church by building and maintaining the parking lot. I believe this myth was dispelled several times. Why do you persist in it? | |
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RichTig
Posts:0
| | 02/20/2008 2:37 PM |
Alert | The city is building & maintaining the parking lot. What part of that was dispelled? | | | |
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frowfam
Posts:16
| | 02/20/2008 2:37 PM |
Alert | Jason and others,
I am not really talking about the profit that they Might be making off of the land sale. I am talking about the fact they will not need to maintain their parking lot, which is an essential part of business cost. If they did not have a parking lot, then people could not or would have a harder time showing up.
Also they say that we can use the church for community events, but we all know if a tax paying gay couple wants to have a ceremony in this church, they would be turned down. Or if a wiccan group wants to get a gathering together, that would also not be allowed. The Church will allow for the community to use the building, but only with the approval of the church, so its not really free, just a VIP ONLY type situation.
I also understand that the church is a none profit, but that is a entire scam on its own that I really don't want to get into.
For me its not about it being a church, I would just as upset if it where a Walmart or Bestbuy that would be getting this type of deal. The real affect that this being a Church has is the people think its a good idea because its a church, again had this been a Walmart deal, most of you would not be supporting this either. | | | |
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RichTig
Posts:0
| | 02/20/2008 2:41 PM |
Alert | The city is building and maintaining the ONE church parking lot. The city did NOT build all of the other churches in town a parking lot. That's called a subsidy. | | | |
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Sinbad
Posts:3046
| | 02/20/2008 2:45 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 02/20/2008 2:35 PM Posted By RichTig on 02/20/2008 2:32 PM The city is subsidizing the church by building and maintaining the parking lot. I believe this myth was dispelled several times. Why do you persist in it?
It's not a Myth... It true!.. just because the church has a parking lot right neext to the land they sold the city doesn't me the city should pay for paving it. Come on Jason... $10 a year? That's not even $10 a sunday they use it!.
LOL..What church do you go to Jason? ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha | |
Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
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San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
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RichTig
Posts:0
| | 02/20/2008 2:45 PM |
Alert | I would like to see the council's reaction, when the next church that is built here asks for a parking lot to be built with city money. | | | |
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frowfam
Posts:16
| | 02/20/2008 2:46 PM |
Alert | Posted By RichTig on 02/20/2008 2:41 PM The city is building and maintaining the ONE church parking lot. The city did NOT build all of the other churches in town a parking lot. That's called a subsidy. Amen | | | |
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RichTig
Posts:0
| | 02/20/2008 2:52 PM |
Alert | Holy crap! I just realized that I am agreeing with Sinbad. Must turn off pc now. | | | |
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