DesertDweller
Posts:2562
 | | 11/11/2007 9:36 PM |
 Alert | Some of the pot stirrers who live outside Maricopa still have financial, business, and investment interests in Maricopa. You would be surprised to know that not all of us in Baja Maricopa drive tractors, chew tobacco, or sit on the porch swatting flies while collecting a disability check.
So here's what I am not hearing. I am not hearing, "Hell no. I didn't try to use my influence to intimidate a DPS officer." Nor am I hearing, "That Dentist is lying. No way did I speed through a parking lot and then flash a badge when confronting him." If I were to hear that, I would probably give Councilman Estes the benefit of the doubt and believe him unless there was some compelling evidence to the contrary.
What I am hearing is that the Editor of the local newspaper has an ax to grind and those on the forum who discuss the article and the councilman's behavior are mean-spirited bullies.
I guess if there was no newspaper and no forum then our elected representatives could pretty much do what they wanted without consequence.
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Stupid should hurt!
Desert Dweller - Senior Member - Posts: 2982 - Joined: Feb 2006 | |
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luv the copa
Posts:192
| | 11/11/2007 10:53 PM |
Alert | DD- let me start by apologizing to you and others. I don't get on here often because I see that so many people type before they think...and they give little thought to other's feelings. I have just added myself to that group. I am not here to defend anything that I have said and hope that you will just understand, even if you don't agree, that we are frustrated. Joe is an open book. He will tell you anything you want to know. He doesn't have a lot of time to get on here and quite honestly do you blame him? You all know who we are and we have no idea who you are or what response we will get from you. Joe gave me some good advice tonight on not being so easily offended and realizing that everyone will not be happy with us. We are pretty normal people living a pretty normal life. 4 kids and a mortgage like everyone else. If you have any questions please feel free to call him. He will tell you what he has done that he can look back on and wish he had done differently and he can tell you what allegations are bogus. I don't know what else to offer. But, I am sorry for my little rampage...I am as human as the next person and have learned that it doesn't feel good to get slammed...and it doesn't feel to good to know that I have slammed others, either.
Trecia Estes | |
Changing lives one diaper at a time since 1993.
Trecia | |
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DKG
Posts:23
| | 11/11/2007 11:15 PM |
Alert | Luv the copa,
Well put.
Hooray Joe!!!
Keep up the great work and never mind the few people who just don't get it. | | | |
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DesertDweller
Posts:2562
| | 11/12/2007 12:00 AM |
Alert | Thanks for the message, Copa. I appreciate and respect that. It's not easy to sit by and watch someone you love and respect criticized. Nobody's perfect and I don't think any of us expect perfection from our public officials.
You are seeing a lot of frustration here. There are homeowners in over their head, wondering if they are going to be able to save their home or their credit. Many of us entered the market in good faith and now are watching our investments and/or our home equity dwindle. In many cases, it's more than just frustration. It's outright fear. We have seen business after business fail in Maricopa. It's no longer a matter of, "Will there be another" but "Who's next?"
Maricopa needs strong leadership. They don't need someone giving the silent treatment to the media, they need someone in office reassuring them that everything that can be done is being done to grow our economy, provide local jobs, and make this an attractive place to live and do business. Unless that happens, 20-30,000 people (depending on the numbers you believe) bought a house 30 miles off the freeway when gas is three bucks a gallon, and now they have to commute to work and shop.
I don't expect a council member to make official posts on the forum. If I were in office, I wouldn't. But I would talk to the press, including 85239.com, and my side of every issue would be permanently recorded in black and white for everyone to see. There is more than one local newspaper in town - something that not even Phoenix can really claim. There is no reason not to get a rebuttal out.
I appreciated Joe's vote on the Rick Buss severance issue. That was the only right thing to do.
Now we're faced with what appears to be another tyrannical city manager who's abusing his authority. My understanding of the way it works is that only the city council can initiate a change at that level. If what's reported is true, I don't see how Mr. Kolman be allowed to continue what he's doing. If the idea is to wait for a new city manager to be appointed, that's a cowards way out. If what's been stated is true, there needs to be consequence not tolerance. If they're not true, then we need to be convinced of that. Silence on the matter isn't too convincing. One of the things this forum is really good at is filling the void that official silence creates.
This is a time for someone to take charge. It's really hard to do that when you're fighting allegations from several different directions.
Thanks again for responding with your last post. I will keep in mind that there are people behind the issues and try to act accordingly. Oh, and understand my hesitation to give Joe a call. Most of the time when I call a lawyer I end up with a bill 
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Stupid should hurt!
Desert Dweller - Senior Member - Posts: 2982 - Joined: Feb 2006 | |
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luv the copa
Posts:192
| | 11/12/2007 7:36 AM |
Alert | Oh, and understand my hesitation to give Joe a call. Most of the time when I call a lawyer I end up with a bill
Touche'!
You make good points that as a voting citizen I understand. Joe and I had the conversation last night that it must be frustrating to be on your side as well and only have the information that is given to you to try to decipher and figure things out on your own which is true and which is not. That's really not fair, either. Thank you!
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Changing lives one diaper at a time since 1993.
Trecia | |
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bear down
Posts:62
| | 11/12/2007 8:18 AM |
Alert | | Just an observation..... DKG, Tempter and Luv the Copa seem to always be in alignment and back each other's responses. | | | |
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Tempter
Posts:41
| | 11/12/2007 8:31 AM |
Alert | | The reverse would be true as well. We can't get anything past you Bear Down! | | | |
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DKG
Posts:23
| | 11/12/2007 9:12 AM |
Alert | WOW bear down!!!
That is a great observation. 3 Cheers for you!!! | | | |
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bear down
Posts:62
| | 11/12/2007 9:29 AM |
Alert | | What reverse Tempter? I actually feel bad for your plight because I think that you are not a bad guy. You just have made bad decisions. We all have made bad decisions. But, we are not in public office. To be held accountable publicly is a decision you made when you ran for public office. Your family is supporting you which is what family is supposed to do, but we don't want to hear them support you and attack those that have publicly taken a stance against you based on the fact that they love you. We want to hear them support you with facts and not emotion. | | | |
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BSpearsBdyGuard
Posts:142
| | 11/12/2007 9:42 AM |
Alert | | what a mess! | | | |
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DKG
Posts:23
| | 11/12/2007 9:54 AM |
Alert | For the record, I am not a member of the Estes Family. I support Joe Estes for the decisions he makes on the council, the direction he wants to see this great city grow and develop, and also for his good character and the good human being that he is. Is he perfect? NO. Has he made mistakes? Sure. He would be the first to admit that.
The issue here is has he done anything to warrant a recall election? I actually do not hear anything negative about him out on the street, just here on this forum and of course that joke of a newspaper, and my circles in the community are pretty broad. As I have stated on another thread, if there is any traction to the attempted recall of him than bring it on. It will just prove how many supporters he really does have.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK JOE! | | | |
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Tempter
Posts:41
| | 11/12/2007 10:16 AM |
Alert | | I don't have to defend who I am or what I'm about. The speculation needs to stop before you embarrass yourself. | | | |
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bear down
Posts:62
| | 11/12/2007 11:17 AM |
Alert | | Tempter - what is the reverse? You stated that actually the reverse is true. Just wanted you to clarify that. | | | |
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Tempter
Posts:41
| | 11/12/2007 11:55 AM |
Alert | | Outrider, Desert Dweller and Gila seem to always be in alignment and back each other's responses. | | | |
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Sinbad
Posts:3052
| | 11/12/2007 12:23 PM |
Alert | If some of what I have read is true.. Kolman needs to go.
If Este's company is sueing.... he needs to go! | |
Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
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San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these | |
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alanf
Posts:1582
| | 11/12/2007 12:56 PM |
Alert | Posted By Sinbad on 11/12/2007 12:23 PM
If some of what I have read is true.. Kolman needs to go.
If Este's company is sueing.... he needs to go!
If Sinbad's boss is watching, he needs to go | | | |
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TheSmokingGun
Posts:0
| | 11/12/2007 2:36 PM |
Alert | | the charges in the paper are 100% accurate and true. Kolman will go to great lengths to manipulate his bosses and key members of the general public. he has bullied staff and even his staff will privately admit they feel he has bully tactics. His staff needs to speak up but they wont out of fear. he has weaved this tangled web and karma will turn around on him. Deb Fink's statements are true. There are others but they wont speak up out of fear and retaliation that will ensure. if people are unwilling to accept that fact, well, pull your head up from the sand. city hall is a mess. he has set up key people to be fall guys for him such as the purchasing manager and the human capital manager. they don't realize they are nothing more than pawns in his wicked game. | | | |
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missPolitick
Posts:645
| | 11/12/2007 2:55 PM |
Alert | | Hey SmokingGun, keep the info coming. I get the feeling you know more than you're letting on. | |
Despite All My Rage I Am Still Just A Rat In A Cage | |
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Tempter
Posts:41
| | 11/12/2007 4:30 PM |
Alert | The fear and intimidation you sense is a figment of your imagination. In the real world when someone has their performance critiqued it is for their benefit and the teams benefit. People sometimes get passed up for promotions because their performance level is not up to what it needs to be. Some people grow from the experience and some lack the backbone to mature and move forward. Many times they are prone to attack the one who is trying to help them the most. Employees become disgruntled when things don't go their way and that seems to be the case here.
Those that have proof of any wrong doing now have the chance to bring it forward. The people of this community have become tired of the trouble makers who use the media to distort the truth for their own gain.
The communities voice was heard loud and clear when the Estes recall attempt faded days after it was started. The bitterness being displayed by a few people will again subside to the overwhelming support the leaders of this community feel from their supporters. | | | |
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TheSmokingGun
Posts:0
| | 11/12/2007 8:13 PM |
Alert | There is no figment of imagination only the world in which people do not see or admit that this city is out of control with corrupt leadership. Given the recent hiring binge the city is on, what promotional opportunities have presented themselves for someone to take advantage of? Plus your statement: "Many times they are prone to attack the one who is trying to help them the most," reeks of someone who suffers from delusions, thinking they are never the problem only the other person. If said person is serious about helping there is usually a tactful way of going about things.
Doesn't the City of Maricopa have a policy on performing performance evaluations? So when you did the critiquing Tempter, was it on an official or unofficial capacity? You are 100% right that employees become disgruntled when things don't go there way but what about when abuse and belittlement occurs? How about veiled threats such as the ones the article alluded to? In my opinion, there are people who would speak up but only if they are protected, which strangely, also happens in the real world. Here, they don't have the luxury.
So here is how this thing will probably go down: the council will not take action against Kolman. They will drag the city manager search out until the new year. If we are lucky, we'll see a new body in place in January and then March elections come up. And, hope this goes away. For those this has impacted, you won't see changes until a new council is in place. Good luck to you. It's time to sit back and watch and as a resident and local business owner, I am curious to see how this plays out.
As for the Estes recall, it's not over. Just because it's not sitting on the front page every week doesn't mean it doesn't have legs. It does. Stop deflecting this issue and focus on the story, not Estes. | | | |
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