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| | Author | Messages | |
josephestes
Posts:5
 | | 08/06/2007 9:37 PM |
 Alert | Although I have always recognized 85239.com as a news source and supported Mr. Bartle in his position, I don’t usually respond to issues on the Forum since it is my policy to freely give out my cellular number to everyone and discuss issues one on one so the entire story is told. However, there have been a lot of criticisms regarding myself and the company I work for these past two days, which are unfounded. Contrary to what a few believe I have made substantial attempts to make changes in City Hall. For this I have been criticized by certain City staff and had my company’s projects delayed, delays which have cost us more than $1.5 million dollars, money that did not come out of my pocket (contrary to popular belief I’m not rich by any standards) but that of the principals of the company, people who have dedicated substantial time and effort to improve Maricopa, people who are your neighbors investing their own money in their own community, not developers from the Phoenix Valley. The story in the Monitor is a single sided hit piece in an attempt to discredit me so when the facts about certain people come to light they won’t seem so credible. I requested to interview with the Monitor to give my side of the story and sent the following email to Kathy Hall prior to the story being published:
Kathy,
I thought about your call last night and had a lot of unanswered questions as to why you were doing a story on the issues you questioned me about. I felt that the 3 or 4 questions you asked me did not give me an opportunity to discuss all of the issues you are apparently writing about. I feel that you are only getting one side of a story and would be more than happy to sit down with you and go over these issues in detail so you have both sides and can publish an accurate story. Please feel free to call me at any time on my cellular phone at (520) 280-6858.
Thanks,
Joe Estes
This was Ms. Hall’s response:
Joe - I talked this over with my publisher, who is fully aware of the story, and we agreed that the remainder of the story involves documents - there really isn't another side of the story to get. The two issues I asked you about last night are the only ones requiring that we give you an opportunity to respond - the Main Street at ICSC issue and allegations of undue influence.
I appreciate your concern. Certainly, after the story is published, if you feel there is a response to be made, the door is always open for a commentary or letter to the editor.
Kathy
Even Kathy knows that documents taken out of context can shape whatever picture you like, as she even admitted that a state statute I cited her was just my opinion and could be interpreted another way. Since I wasn’t given an opportunity to explain things to Kathy, I would like to take this opportunity to put some things straight, and discuss the issues that are currently on everyone’s minds, even though there are many that tell me to just let it ride out, but I’m tired of things being brushed under the rug. Yes there are those that are cynical and will classify this as “spin,” everyone’s entitled to their opinion.
First let’s start off with the issue of a flyer I handed out at a Las Vegas convention. Yes, I did hand out a single flyer, not many as was wrongly reported, in a meeting, a meeting that was set up by Councilman Baker and was intended to give information regarding all of the projects that were going on in Maricopa. Many flyers were given to this company regarding Maricopa projects. I never had any discussions with this company prior to the meeting nor have I had any since the meeting. I was merely trying to promote Maricopa. Yes, there will be those of you who say that I was only promoting self interest, to that I would point out that although I hold a minority interest in LandMax, the company that registered the name Main Street Maricopa, Landmax does not own any property and was merely a company formed to provide information regarding the projects, a practice that is common in development. Yes the company that owns the land is my client, but I don’t have a personal stake in the project. Could this be misinterpreted? Yes, and for that I apologize. It was never my intention to do anything that would be viewed as improper or self serving. As a side note, I noticed that nothing was ever said about the fact that I rented a car on my own “dime” and chauffeured city staff back and forth to the convention. I also didn’t see any remarks about the fact that I didn’t stay at a casino like everyone else, but chose to stay at a traditional hotel, closer to the convention center and less expensive.
Second is the issue of my representation of a number of development projects in the City. As this issue is very detailed I will point out the pertinent facts. First, does Ms. Hall really think that I am the only developer representative that has councils’ email addresses? If so, the readers of the Monitor are in more trouble than I thought. Next, blatantly excluded from the story was the fact that Arizona State Statute requires the City to expedite submissions made by a charter school. The charter school sits on a 20 acre commercial project and only takes 5 ½ acres of that site so I requested that the City process a minor land division for the charter school so it could be processed by itself and it would not appear that the rest of the commercial project was being fast tracked. A minor land division is very common and the County processes them on a regular basis, usually in less than a week. Because City staff did not want to go that route the charter school submission was “ping ponged” (a phrase used by a planner in describing what was being done with the project) in the planning department and delayed for over 3 months, even though state statute required a final determination within 30 days. If this is undue influence then other developers that submit to the City are in real trouble. The fact is that I have heard complaints from almost every developer that has done business with Maricopa, I have tried to address those complaints. Additionally, I have emails that the Monitor failed to acknowledge that substantiated my complaints about the delays, that my phone calls were not being returned and that I was being ignored by staff. Best of all was the City’s excuse that Wildan, the City’s plan review firm, had a flood in their offices, which just happened to ruin my plans and everything had to be reproduced, causing more delays. Was I very aggressive with the charter school project? Yes, because new and better schools are needed, more than 500 students were enrolled and more than 40 employees hired. Did the City enter into a development agreement for the charter school project? Yes, because it wasn’t getting processed in a timely manner and parents were complaining to the Council, all of whom have stated that education is a top priority.
Some will ask why would this happen or say that I’m just trying to spin the issue. It is my feeling that I was being blackballed by planning because I was pushing performance evaluations for City management and City staff. If you don’t believe this then just ask yourself why Mr. Buss stepped down from being City Manager less than a week after I was successful in getting performance evaluations implemented for the City Manager position. I have also been critical of management’s running of the City. I also think that there is pressure against charter schools as they “take money away from the school district.” Whatever the reasons, the projects I have worked on have been delayed and as an aggressive lawyer I have argued my client’s case.
I received the following letter tonight (8/9/07) after the 4-3 vote on a settlement and release agreement entered into by the City of Maricopa and therefore have edited this post. I would note that I received the letter immediately after the vote and it was in a sealed envolop, prepared well ahead of time:
"Mr. Estes,
The settlement and release agreement approved by the Maricopa City Council on August 9, 2007 provides mutual and reciprocal releases up to the date of resignation/termination. That date is August 10, 2007.
You have posted on a local website (www.85239.com) negative and defamatory comments relative to the city and my client, Rick Buss. This includes, but is not limited to, your "Open letter to the City of Maricopa."
Because websites are posted everyday, your negative and defamatory comments are republished everyday. You are hereby notified that the release pursuant to the settlement and release agreement dated August 9, 2007 does not apply as of August 10, 2007, 12:01 am.
Please be advised that you have until midnight today (August 9, 2007) to remove all posts relative to my client, including but not limited to references to him by name, as the city manager, and the assistant city manager.
Sincerely,
Clair William Lane, LTD.
Finally there is the issue of the recall petition against me. There is a lot of distrust regarding government in general. Yes some of it is justified but for the most part, at least as far as Maricopa is concerned, it is misunderstanding fueled by speculation and spite. It is easy to sit back and be a Monday morning quarterback and sit behind an anonymous screen name critiquing the decisions that others make, there is no personal responsibility or accountability. Ask yourself this, would a company looking to relocate or open new offices be inclined to choose Maricopa over Tempe or any other valley community when all they see is negativity towards the development community and those entrusted with the management of the City? Although I don’t think that a recall is appropriate, that is your decision and if the petition is successful I will work hard to be elected by the majority and continue working on the changes that I thing will help Maricopa reach its full potential. I will also vow that I will not make negative personal attacks against anyone who runs for office; people can disagree without making unfounded personal attacks. There are those that take the position that anyone involved with development cannot serve the City by being on the Council. I would say otherwise as the City process for most developments is very minor compared to everything else it takes to get a development off the ground and up and running. Yes it does create conflicts of interest at times but that doesn’t mean that that person is doing anything wrong.
Although I don’t have much spare time to respond to issues on the Forum I can always be reached on my cellular phone at (520) 280-6858.
Sincerely,
Councilman Estes
P.S.
Scott, I know that I'm fat, but could we use a differnt picture that tries to hide some of the chins.
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| | azsouthendzone
Posts:0
| | 08/06/2007 10:03 PM |
Alert | | Wow. I'll give you credit for this response. | | | |
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| | Lano
Posts:275
| | 08/06/2007 10:53 PM |
Alert | Thank-you for going the extra yard Mr. Estes.
Please note, that it's easy for us to look at some of the decisions made by Council and be critical. Your right, we all like to Monday morning quaterback, but we can also evaluate our leaders based on their performance/results. We want better! As you do too.
Thanks again for reaching out.
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| | tank69
Posts:0
| | 08/06/2007 11:13 PM |
Alert | | I guess Rick failed to mention the trip they took to the wine country in CA. | | | |
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| | IrishCream
Posts:277
| | 08/06/2007 11:24 PM |
Alert | This is exactly why I come to 85239.com to get all my local information. EVERYONE has a voice on here (within TOU agreement) if they choose to use it. Councilman Estes, thank you for your response, even if it took awhile, and I will consider the fact that you chose to be a man and address the communities concerns, while I'm signing the petition.
It's definitely more than I can say for Mr. Buss! I do appreciate having two sides to every story, but you know what they say, "There's this person's side and that person's side, somewhere in between is the truth."!
And I agree, they should find a more flattering "side" when taking your picture! Thank God I'm not in any public office, I would cringe at any published pictures of myself lol! | |
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”
— Ralph Waldo Emerson | |
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| | AzSandSlinger
Posts:743
| | 08/06/2007 11:30 PM |
Alert | Councilman Estes, thank you for your response, even if it took awhile,
It looks to me like it took a recall petition...
-Shane | |
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Ultra Super Member
Posts: eleventy-billion
Joined: 10 Nov 1775
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"There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion."
Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army | |
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|  | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 08/06/2007 11:54 PM |
Alert | I'm a bit confused about this statement:
First, does Ms. Hall really think that I am the only developer representative that has councils’ email addresses?
Is that meant to address this?
On April 27, after repeated emails from Estes to the City Attorney's representative Tina Stanley, Haberbosch sent an email to Stanley, Buss and Fitzer asking "Are we now allowing applicants to contact legal directly? Without even copying staff or City Manager on the correspondence?" In effect, Haberbosch was objecting to direct contact by a developer's representative (Estes), giving unprecedented legal access to a developer and presumably accruing expenses to the city at the same time.
If so, it doesn't address the fact that the City's legal department was being contacted directly.
Finally, the other question I have is about conflicts of interest. You were recently quoted as saying that everything is OK as long as the conflicts are declared. How does this absolve the conflict?
Either way, thank you for taking the time to come on here and present your side of the story. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | bitterbeard
Posts:207
| | 08/06/2007 11:56 PM |
Alert | Councilman Estes,
Thank you for your time posting this information, it probably isn't easy to put something out there to the faceless masses without know how they will react.
I think you make a mistake not embracing a new medium to interact with constituents; in most of our personal lives we do not have time to attend every meeting, read every press release, etc. When we the people hear of a problem that rallies enough individuals to act the reaction can sometimes be knee jerking and without knowing all the sides of the story, take the wrong people out of office.
There is more going on in our town then most people realize and we need to keep an eye on everyone, we need leadership and somebody to step up and have not only a plan but let everyone else know what their plan is so we can see the road ahead of us.
The citizens living in Maricopa are well educated, if you get your message out there in as many places as possible we will hear it. If you also have a place you listen to people discussing issues of the city you watch over, it gives you direct line into their wants and needs of their local government. Invaluable information.
I hope you are not a stranger Councilman Estes to this forum, and thank you again for taking the time to tell your side of the developing story.
Matt | | | |
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| | Fritzydoodle
Posts:1024
| | 08/07/2007 12:17 AM |
Alert | Bitterbeard wrote "I think you make a mistake not embracing a new medium to interact with constituents; in most of our personal lives we do not have time to attend every meeting, read every press release, etc. When we the people hear of a problem that rallies enough individuals to act the reaction can sometimes be knee jerking and without knowing all the sides of the story, take the wrong people out of office. "
Perhaps the city should consider actually communicating with people instead of ignoring them. I'm still waiting for an email response to something I sent you over the July 4th holiday timeperiod. I'm still waiting for responses from other councilmen and staff to those and other emails, phone calls etc.
While it is appreciated you posting your response to the recall petition - wouldn't it have been better to have an open dialogue between the community and city hall all along? Perhaps things would not have erroded to the current point. | |
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| | Lurky Loo
Posts:38
| | 08/07/2007 1:01 AM |
Alert | Trust me, I've been intrigued these past few weeks by all of the gossip, speculation, and innuendo regarding the alleged misconduct by the City Manager. Heck, I even think he's probably guilty of all of it. But what about THIS?
Third is the current issue regarding Mr. Buss’ employment. This is a touchy issue as it is still under investigation and it is difficult to discuss critical issues which could result in legal action being taken against the City and such issues have to be addressed in a cautious manner
Sorry, but I'm not seing the "caution" as he threw Mr. Buss under the...um, bus. I think we're about to have another item to add to our Maricopa Scandal List as the councilman gets in trouble for releasing some of that information. | | | |
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| | mallardisme
Posts:611
| | 08/07/2007 1:06 AM |
Alert | Wow.
2,083 words.
I grew tired after the 3rd paragraph.
That has to be a record for anything someone from City Hall has posted in the past.
I read, I think. I am still looking into this recall election, but I do see much validity, especially after this rant. (When you dig a deep hole, stop digging)
Regardless of the outcome of the recall, I can't vote for you as mayor. I don't like people that don't listen to the voters.
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Let X=X | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 08/07/2007 1:16 AM |
Alert | I think we're about to have another item to add to our Maricopa Scandal List as the councilman gets in trouble for releasing some of that information.
I don't think there is anything in that statement that wasn't already known. I think he is referring to the, (how shall I put it?  ), poorly executed swapping out of Buss for Kolman. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 08/07/2007 1:17 AM |
Alert | That has to be a record for anything someone from City Hall has posted in the past.
I think it is a record for longest post ever on 85239. Even I haven't written anything that long. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 08/07/2007 4:43 AM |
Alert | Posted By josephestes on 08/06/2007 9:37 PM
I told Mr. Buss that whether or not he was having a romantic relationship didn’t matter; it was the appearance that they were that did...
Mister Estes, take a close look at this line.
And when you're done, look at it again.
And when you're done with that, I ask you to gaze at it a third time.
Thank you. I think you see it now. For in the midst of your self-serving diatribe (which, quite honestly, I thought less of as I read further down the line) you have painted yourself into an ethical quandary with this single hypocrisy-laden line. You have seen fit to criticize one individual's "appearance of impropriety" mere moments after dismissing your own.
I think I speak for many when I say that we are a forgiving bunch of folks. Nobody expects perfection amongst our elected officials, especially since there is a hefty learning curve in the process. But neither do we expect dishonesty, ethical lapses, and dismissive excuses for blatant conflicts of interest. In my opinion, I see at least two of the aforementioned traits right here in living color.
Whether or not you had a financial stake in your client's firm is mere quibbling. Using City time, commonly known as "taxpayer time," to push a development planned by your client just looks wrong. There's no disguising that, and the "it's not mine, it's my client's!" excuse seems as hollow as the apology that followed.
Your missive here has painted a picture of a fractured City government with power struggles all around. Frankly, this does not come as much of a surprise given the odd antics we've witnessed from the Council firsthand over the past few months. Why on earth would it have taken this long, and a recall petition, to get this sort of information out to the public? Even if not by 85239, there are plenty of other methods of releasing information and creating at least a modest sense of governmental transparency. We, however, got none of that. At least until your job was placed on the line.
I am no conspiracy theorist. But it stands to reason that the primary factor behind the troublesome lack of transparency in our local government has to do with the fact that little things like this handing out of self-serving documents on City time were probably far more widespread and prevalent than we will ever know. Does it happen in other cities? Perhaps. Does that excuse the behavior? Positively not. This is one of those situations where I hope I am dead wrong...but that nagging thought in the back of my mind tells me that I'm not. After all, you never made public mention of this incident prior to it being outed in the newspaper, correct? What assurance do we, the community, have that this hasn't happened scores of times previously?
I appreciate you taking the time to post something here. Even while I disagree heartily over some of the issues at hand, and feel that this explanation is a day late and a dollar short, it does show courage that you were willing to step into the proverbial lions' den in an effort to present your side. In general, I am not a fan of recall elections under anything other than dire circumstances. I feel that you were fairly clearly in the wrong here, at the very least in the appearance of your actions, but I do not personally find that this alone would meet my standards for supporting your recall. (Unless there's more that we don't know, of course.)
And now I will tender my own apology, for the tone of this post. It is not in my style or preference to write posts that come off with this sort of "feel" to them. What you are seeing here is a post laden with regret.
For you see, I read your bio when you were appointed a few years back. I was one of those who thought you'd be a breath of fresh air on the council. I was one of those who thought you'd be good for Maricopa, who would lead by example, and leave self-interest and the appearance thereof behind. I voted for you.
And now I'm beginning to wish I hadn't. | | | |
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| | Karma
Posts:74
| | 08/07/2007 5:56 AM |
Alert | Mr Estes,
I really don't know what to say on your letter....I understand that some issues needed to be brought into the open, but the items that you stated about Mr. Buss and Ms. Haberbosch are a little shocking. Isn't there a policy on items of privacy that you have discussed to the public. I know that as a HR person if things of this nature were released there would be very severe repercussions on my part as an administrator and also for the person releasing this type of information. If this isn't the item that Mr. Buss was suspended for, then why did you feel it necessary to bring this up?
I feel that your focus on Mr. Buss is pretty harsh. Are there other reasons for that? Is there vital information that Mr. Buss knows about that could harm your image even further, and could that be a reason that you wanted him to step down? | | | |
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| | maricopacabana
Posts:348
| | 08/07/2007 7:11 AM |
Alert | Thank you for taking the time to respond. You are right there is a general distrust of local Government. Especially after the issues that have happened the last few months. Our Council has given the appearance of imploding under the weight of its own conflicts. Decisions aren't being made some feel due to conflicts of interests you feel it's for second guessing. What is the cause of the second guessing? Council's own personal interests.
I feel the inclusion of Mr. Buss and the allegations is unfortunate and serves to only muddy the topic. You state you have an adversarial relationship with the City Staff. Because of this are you doing your clients and your constituents any justice. Might you better be able to accomplish your goals by being in the private sector? To paraphrase your analysis of the Buss situation, whether you have over stepped your bounds or not you have created a hostile working relationship and created the appearance of impropriety.
You brought up in the comment to the article on this action that you had been approached regarding this. Like your actions regarding Mr. Buss we did contact you and inform you of our intent. We gave you the option to step down or face the recall. Out of respect to you we kept this confidential and did not give that to the press.
I think we have some common ground here. We all want to see Maricopa grow. We also want to see a Council that is focused on the People first. You obviously are involved with trying to bring some great development ideas to this City. This might be a great time to step down and focus on bringing more of these projects to the City.
Jim | | | |
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| | Karma
Posts:74
| | 08/07/2007 7:16 AM |
Alert | | Kevin this is not Rick.....I don't work for the city...I am a married woman with 2 children that knows both you and your ex very well... | | | |
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| | Karma
Posts:74
| | 08/07/2007 7:25 AM |
Alert | | You are bitter and angry. Anormal human would not do this to someone they once loved. Don't you care what this is doing to your kids??????? | | | |
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| | stogieman
Posts:0
| | 08/07/2007 10:44 AM |
Alert | Posted By Karma on 08/07/2007 7:25 AM
You are bitter and angry. Anormal human would not do this to someone they once loved. Don't you care what this is doing to your kids???????
So cheating on your spouse is NORMAL? The only person doing anything to her children is her. The kids tell their father that nearly every weekend is spent at his house or somewhere with him. Two of his children can't stand Rick, but such is life.
You can say who you are whoever you are, but it's obvious you are either one of the parties in involved or a relative. Maybe if something like this happened to you, you understand. Just like you think I'm Kevin, I'm not, but I am a close friend providing support....just like you are.
You have no idea how it feels to be lied to, deceived and cheated on. I've seen what it has done to my friend, but you feel it's appropriate. | | | |
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| | Karma
Posts:74
| | 08/07/2007 10:58 AM |
Alert | Hey Stogie once again you.....tell me some more sweeeeet little liessss this came to me in e-mail, which proves it is you.
From: kevin@tank69.com
To: karma@aol.com
Date: 3 Aug 2007 14:50:06 -0700
Subject: Message from stogieman on 85239.com Maricopa Arizona (AZ)
From: stogieman
Subject: Who are you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me guess, Pat?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
85239.com Maricopa Arizona (AZ) http://www.85239.com
and no I am not related.....lets just put it this way...I am close enough to see it all when you were around!!! If I were her I would the least I would have done was cheated you =) def wouldn't have stayed home for it...nasty! | | | |
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