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| | Author | Messages | |
chessman
Posts:243
 | | 07/09/2007 4:20 PM |
 Alert | | Did anybody else read Will Dunn’s letter to the editor? I do have to admire him for having the guts to publish it, but it raises more questions than provides answers. | |
This message was composed entirely of 100% recycled electrons; minimum 35% post-consumer content. | |
| | Fritzydoodle
Posts:956
| | 07/09/2007 4:44 PM |
Alert | What Connection? What letter?
Can you post a link? | |
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| | McFly
Posts:17
| | 07/09/2007 5:19 PM |
Alert | | I could not find it. Please tell us how to get it or send a message. Thx! | | | |
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| | chessman
Posts:243
| | 07/09/2007 9:16 PM |
Alert | | It came in the mail last week on Thursday. It isn’t available online. Let me find out what if I can post it or if I need to just paraphrase it. I would prefer to have anybody who is interested read it as it was published. Will talked about the Goodyear annex threat and all the reasons getting annexed by Maricopa is good. He also made reference to what he called Our Airport. Since Maricopa doesn’t have an airport, it speaks volumes to the fact that plans are in place and they haven’t been made public. I’ll see if I can post the letter tomorrow. | |
This message was composed entirely of 100% recycled electrons; minimum 35% post-consumer content. | |
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| | pkat
Posts:997
| | 07/09/2007 9:25 PM |
Alert | | I was a little surprised by it too. I though my mind was made up, but I'm considering the annexation issue again. | |
..... If you can dream it, I can build it.
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." -- Oscar Wilde | |
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| | DesertDweller
Posts:2548
| | 07/09/2007 9:32 PM |
Alert | Yes. I saw it. You're right, his statement that he honestly believed that Goodyear was going to annex south and west of Maricopa was good to hear. I believe him. I have always respected Will and my observation is that he speaks his mind rather than just going with the flow. I think he and the rest of the council were given inaccurate, poorly researched, and unsubstantiated information by city staff, for which they should be held accountable.
I don't agree with the Annexation. Maybe sometime in the future, but not now. If for no other reason, there is no stable leadership in Maricopa. The staff is in a state of transition. It could very easily take the next year to get a full-time city manager in place and even then there will be a learning curve. I can see no benefit to the people in the rural areas. The things we're being offered are things that we don't really need or want.
He is right about the rural people being bold and daring. Many of my neighbors were out here before the rattlesnakes settled into the area. They did (and some still do) haul water and heat and cool their homes with propane. They do it by choice. I don't know anyone who bought their property and built out here with the hope that Maricopa would come along and annex the area.
Many of us want less government because having the services that government may offer means more government intervention into our lives. We take it with a great deal of skepticism when someone says, "Hi, I am here from City Hall and I would like to help you." Or, "We will annex the area, build zillions of homes at 6 or 8 units per acre, but we will also preserve your rural way of life."
Not everyone out here is a hick living off of a disability check. There are a number of professionals and people with advanced degrees. Many of us commute to work just like the Maricopans. Almost every time the area in which I live becomes a topic of conversation, I hear, "Why do you live way the hell out there?" My answer is always the same: Because I can.
I do believe that Will believes what he said in his letter. I respect that even if I don't agree with all of it. | |
Stupid should hurt!
Desert Dweller - Senior Member - Posts: 2982 - Joined: Feb 2006 | |
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|  | docjj
Posts:17
| | 07/09/2007 10:06 PM |
Alert | re-Chessman
It would be interesting to read the letter. I agree that it sounds like a mess down in city hall. Who knows what their next step is? The post regarding the bad news on the city manager was taken down- it was pretty eye-opening stuff.
What is the council up to next?
If you can, get that letter in. Sounds like you are pretty involved and know what has been going on. | | | |
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| | Horses R Cool
Posts:144
| | 07/09/2007 10:11 PM |
Alert | | The lettler was actually in "The Communicator." You can pick up a copy of "The Communicator" at most stores at no cost. It is the original "newspaper" of Maricopa. | | | |
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| | 85239
Posts:0
| | 07/09/2007 11:00 PM |
Alert | Reprinted from the Maricopa Monitor (June 28, 2007)
Will Dunn, Maricopa City Council member
Come let us reason together, wise words that have been around for a long time, appropriate for our community. Reason seems to be one of the main things that is being lost in this discussion over the possible annexation of our community to the south and west of our current boundaries.
When the city staff came to me and suggested that we needed to possibly move much faster in our annexation plans that any of us had ever wanted, I was very reluctant. I was only convinced that this was necessary after I started gathering facts and suppositions over what Goodyear was doing with their annexation of our neighbors in Mobile.
One of the challenges of being an elected official is that you get "tagged" with the imposition of impropriety at your every move. Good, healthy doubt, skepticism and concern over most things governmental are what keep our governmental leaders in check. I got into politics because I do not like government and did not trust those with the power or authority over us. I felt and still feel that we can accomplish more working on the inside that on the outside. With that said, I understand people's doubts about the City Council's motives on this large step.
My record on the council pretty much stands up for itself, I have never been afraid of going against the crowd if the crowd is going against our common principles. I have consistently fought to keep our government in check and out of our lives as much is possible. I have, since the inception of our city, spoken loudly and clearly to protect the rights of our citizens and the businesses who are serving our community. I have spoken the truth, even when the truth hurts.
I expect many people to have healthy doubts over this annexation. But let's not let those doubts cloud our reason. Let's not let wrong information hide the facts that we need to see in order to make a sound judgment. Come let us reason together.
We honestly believed Goodyear was an impending threat to our community; for our future airport and an economically rich transportation corridor in the future.
Development is going to continue to expand to this area. 30,000 homes already platted in Thunderbird and Papago. Is anyone going to hold these developers accountable to the desecration to your lifestyles? Is anyone going to put any kind of check on this growth? Is anyone going to protect the rural life style of this community? Is anyone going to make these developers pay their fair share of the huge infrastructure needs this many homes and automobiles are going generate? Is anyone going to make them contribute to the massive problems this traffic is going to cause the residents of our current boundaries? You think we have traffic problems now on 347, try adding this many cars going through the center of our town?
There is no developer pushing this, in fact I have not spoken to any of the developers about this annexation. They simply are not a part of this issue at this point.
We are NOT doing this annexation to increase our tax base. We operate our city on sales tax, not on property tax and that statement is simply not true. In fact, it will be a cost to our city to handle the needs of this area. But the long term costs to our residents and to the residents of this annexation area by not getting some control over these developments will be more than any of us will want to bear.
We really want the residents of Thunderbird and Papago to have a voice and to be a part of the decisions that need to be made in this area.
We are not taking over any water district out there.
We are not raising taxes on anybody's home out there.
We are not getting rid of the livestock out there; in fact, we want to come up with a way to protect your rights to keep your animals and rural lifestyle.
I was told recently by an intelligent, well meaning lady that she was opposed to this annexation because she didn't want to hold a "Welcome" sign on her chest for the developers that are coming. Folks the "welcome" sign is already on your chests. By allowing yourselves the ability to govern at a more local level and being able to require much more out of the developers by working through a municipality, what you are actually doing is putting a "Whoa Partner" sign on your chest instead.
We either control our destiny or we let chance, good luck and blind optimism lead us where we are heading. I've heard it said many times, "We like it just the way it is!" Let's be real honest, the way it is, is not going to stay that way. The developers will come, they've already been approved at the county level, and they won't be stopped. Change is coming. You either hide your head in the sand and hope without reason that by doing nothing, nothing will change, or get proactive, use reason, real facts and be a part of making your community the best it can be in spite of the growth that is coming.
I know this is a highly emotional issue and not without reason. I don't trust government any more than you do. But do we let our fears cause us to be run over. If you would have told me four years ago that Maricopa would have 30,000 residents today, I would have called you a foolish dreamer. What if we would have waited and not taken some control over our destiny. Maricopa is not perfect but it is so much better than the chaos of other similar communities that didn't incorporate until after the flood tide of developers overran their areas.
The residents of Thunderbird and Papago are bold, daring, independent and strong willed. They are the best kind of people to get involved and help us keep our community what we want it to be. | | | |
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| | Fritzydoodle
Posts:956
| | 07/09/2007 11:26 PM |
Alert |
Thank you for posting that for us!
I see a few inaccuracies or areas of incompleteness.
When you annex an area - you can't arbitrarily change the zoning. It's grandfathered in. So the we want to keep the animals... sounds good but it was going to stay anyway.
If the PAD is on the record and approved in the county - the city can't go back and collect an impact fee. Remember RED and all the other PADs Pinal County approved prior to incorporating? Same situation applies. Once it's approved, you can't go back and add another stipulation such as pay an impact fee. You can negotiate with the developer, but you can't go back and force a change.
Our future airport? Has anyone bothered to make an announcement of location or let the people at AZ Soaring know? Glider operations don't exactly fit in with powered aircraft. That's why they've been located away from the beaten path for decades. Maricopa _had_ an airport already operating but failed to act. What has Maricopa received for the cost of the consultant - Ed Beauvais?
Road construction and traffic problems? HELLO? Didn't anyone think about the single ingress/egress point prior to all the current subdivisions? I doubt it - just keep building and let it work itself out over time. After all, the developers don't live here.
Maricopa has more than enough on their plate to last for years to come before worrying about annexing more land. It seems there are enough problems deciding simple things - like where to locate City Hall than deal with expansion. | |
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| | 85239
Posts:0
| | 07/09/2007 11:44 PM |
Alert | How is our city supposed to support an additional 30,000 homes with infrastructure, planning and amenitites when they can't even decide how to fix the brick pavers in front of Rancho El Dorado or clean the tumbleweeds and debris from the roads and ditches?
The sales tax thing is also interesting. It doesn't correlate that you can let the people maintain a rural lifestyle, but have enough economic development to sustain new infrastructure. Businesses within our current city limits are struggling and are prepared to provide services for much more than the current 33,000 residents we have. The HV/TF/PF people are already in our trade area, so bringing them into city jurisdiction doesn't increase the number of people contributing to the sales tax base. And, even in a best-case scenario, those out in HV/TF/PF already contribute to the tax base via their purchases within city limits so adding them to the boundaries of our town will not impact sales tax from a retail perspective. Real sales tax increases come from major retail development and we are years from that happening out in areas that are only now being annexed.
I don't believe developers are chomping at the bit to develop that area. It is interesting how Mr. Dunn's comments talk about how annexation will help those in the annexation areas, but he doesn't talk about the people who he is responsible too and who also must see a benefit: the current citizens of the City of Maricopa. I would suggest they stop, take a deep breath, realize that Education, Safety and Infrastructure of existing areas are much more important right now than the current annexation plans.
City Council Agenda for 07-17-07 | | | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 07/10/2007 4:14 AM |
Alert | Posted By Fritzydoodle on 07/09/2007 11:26 PM
Maricopa has more than enough on their plate to last for years to come before worrying about annexing more land. It seems there are enough problems deciding simple things - like where to locate City Hall than deal with expansion.
Your entire post was very, very well said...and I couldn't agree more. This is a fine place to live, but I don't think it is reasonable to bite off even more when the city can barely chew what is already has. | | | |
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| | DesertNewbie
Posts:531
| | 07/10/2007 7:12 AM |
Alert | Posted By 85239 on 07/09/2007 11:44 PM
Businesses within our current city limits are struggling and are prepared to provide services for much more than the current 33,000 residents we have. The HV/TF/PF people are already in our trade area, so bringing them into city jurisdiction doesn't increase the number of people contributing to the sales tax base.
I don't believe Mr. Dunn's letter stated anything about the sale tax base increasing due to the annexation. What he said was that the people living in the potentially annexed areas do not have to worry about property tax increase, because that isn't how the city makes money. It makes money from sales tax. | | | |
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| | DesertNewbie
Posts:531
| | 07/10/2007 7:16 AM |
Alert | Posted By Fritzydoodle on 07/09/2007 11:26 PM
When you annex an area - you can't arbitrarily change the zoning. It's grandfathered in. So the we want to keep the animals... sounds good but it was going to stay anyway.
I believe his point is, if there is no annexation, and therefore no zoning laws, the developers will be able to accomplish things that might environmentally affect the ability to keep livestock. You're right in the fact that the zoning won't impact change for the people who will have the "grandfathered rights", but it will impact new landowners (developers) in order to protect the rights of the "grandfathered."
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| | 85239
Posts:0
| | 07/10/2007 7:49 AM |
Alert | Posted By DesertNewbie on 07/10/2007 7:12 AM Posted By 85239 on 07/09/2007 11:44 PM
Businesses within our current city limits are struggling and are prepared to provide services for much more than the current 33,000 residents we have. The HV/TF/PF people are already in our trade area, so bringing them into city jurisdiction doesn't increase the number of people contributing to the sales tax base. I don't believe Mr. Dunn's letter stated anything about the sale tax base increasing due to the annexation. What he said was that the people living in the potentially annexed areas do not have to worry about property tax increase, because that isn't how the city makes money. It makes money from sales tax.
My comments weren't a direct rebuttal to Mr. Dunn's letter.
But, since you brought it up, if the City of Maricopa supports itself on sales tax, we absolutely would need a greater amount of sales tax revenue to generate the amount of money to support the residents out in the annexation area. Even if you write off the infrastructure to the developers, you have to provide basic services to the citizens. This isn't addressed at all in Mr. Dunn's letter. Neither is how having to support those outlying areas will impact the ability for current citizens of Maricopa to receive their services at the same level they receive them now. And the city does have a public safety property tax. It has benefited the current residents because of the way our Fire District was structured, but to say we don't have a property tax is incorrect. Unless the annexation areas are also structured the same way, they will have an added property tax for public safety services. | | | |
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| | sarahc
Posts:631
| | 07/10/2007 7:56 AM |
Alert | My husband and I went to one of the Annexation meetings a few months ago. The meeting was a mess. There were 7 or 8 people there representing the city. They had a poor sound system and everyone swarmed around them and yelled. Mr. Dunn showed up late and took over. Seemed the people really took to him. I told my husband later in the car that he is a really good politician, but just that, a politician!!! For someone who doesn’t like government seems Mr. Dunn is immersed in it. If I recall correctly Mr. Dunn like many in the city have not been here long. Sure his family has had ties to the area for a long, long time but he and his family resided in Gilbert until the property they lived on was annexed. Mr. Dunn is not fooling me he is a great politician, likes to tell people what they want to hear. He is not my neighbor and I certainly would never want him to represent or speak for the people or rural Maricopa.I should tell you that my husband and myself are educated, English speaking, hard working, home/land owners’ and have been in Maricopa for 16 years (I have been here for 8 he has been here for 16). We just built a brand new home and plan to be here for the long haul. At this point we see no reason to ever leave. We too live way out here, because we can!
Here is how I feel about the annexation. I would like to point out right up front that I am still on the fence with this issue. I really think the only way my land will be unchanged, if the annexation comes through or not, is if I build an 8 foot brick wall around all 3 1/3 (Yes, I have priced it!!).
The airport was mentioned at the meeting that I went to and if I recall correctly it was even printed on a map of the proposed annexation area. The also talked about a property owner’s private air strip out in Hidden Valley. So I was not at all surprised to see that in Mr. Dunn’s letter. I don’t think they have hidden the fact that they would like to create and maintain an airport at all.
The houses are coming. Anyone that uses Papago Rd. to get in and out of town knows that. So to me that is a mute point. What dose concern me is that if we do become part of the city what are there plans for maintaining roads and handling traffic? They say the county will do nothing but I too believe that the city will do nothing. I live on a road that was last resurfaced well over 10 years ago. Is the city going to come in and fix it too? I doubt it but they may gain some control over how the builders improve the roads in front of any new subdivisions that will be out here sooner then we know.
As far as fire and police services everyone knows that we don’t really have much of that now anyway. I had to call the sheriff office a year or so ago and waited 4 hours for them to respond. When he arrived he told me he could not find our property and it was dark. I just shook my head. I am starting to think that some is better then none. I would like to see the city of Maricopa’s Police Department out here, but just how soon will that be? From what I understand they don’t have enough officers to cover the current city limits. Same with fire. We currently carry a fire contract on our new home through Western. If we do have a fire they will come from Casa Grande. It would be nice to know that if we needed them the city of Maricopa Fire Department would be able to come out this way if need be regardless if they put a fire house out here. I would hate to see my home burn to the ground because it took western 30+ minutes to get here. People in Gilbert and Mesa on county islands are facing those issues now; it’s been all over the news.
Do I think the city is biting off more then it can chew? YES. I don’t want to be annexed but I don’t want t be a county Island either. So now it looks like I have to choose. What boat to I jump in and will it hold or will we all end up sinking?
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| | chessman
Posts:243
| | 07/10/2007 8:09 AM |
Alert | Horses R Cool and 85239, thanks for identifying the correct source and posting the letter.
Will says our way of life will be better protected by the City than the county. What he doesn’t say is HOW the city can possibly do anything to preserve our rural lifestyle. Grandfathered land use? Yeah, that is actually a joke. I thought the mini-farms deed restrictions protected the landowner. All they do is restrict us. There is no enforcement of the deed restrictions. I asked Amy Haberbosch if the city would allow me to rezone and split my 6.6 acres in T-Bird farms – per the city’s general plan – and she said, yes they would pretty much have to allow it. That would help me to sell and move away, but it would pretty much screw my neighbors if they intend to stay. Grandfathered land rights let the existing owners use their land as they always have. It doesn’t mean that the investment firm that buys your neighbor’s place has to use it the same way.
As for “Our airport”:
The city intends to get the state trust land that is already being used by somebody who has a lease on it for the sailport. They will then kick the other business off and sink a bunch of your tax dollars into building a municipal airport. Rick Buss made public statements two years ago to the effect that the economic future of Maricopa pivoted on development of an airport. As a career aviation professional, I don’t see it. A.J. doesn’t have an airport and they are doing fine. Same with Gilbert. Mesa has a successful airport and the city still has financial problems. In the end, a few politicians are out to destroy a very successful business for what gain?
I said it on the old forum and I’ll say it again. Casa Grande Municipal Airport is a half-hour from the center of town. That’s more than close enough to attract anybody who would have come here for an airport. I think the city fathers have a dream that they will create a thriving business park like Scottsdale Airpark. Scottsdale was a fluke. Look at all the airports in the valley. Most have been here more than 50 years. Scottsdale’s Airpark is the only business park of it’s kind here because of the people who brought their money and businesses to Scottsdale to live in an affluent area. I don’t see that attraction here. Maybe Will’s business is doing so well that he needs a place to park his private jet? Doubtful.
Uprvr can flame me now, but I have to comment on Will's statements about the lie that Goodyear was coming. Will stated that he truly believed that Goodyear was planning an annexation. What he didn’t say AGAIN was why he believed it. If any councilman knew it wasn’t the truth and perpetuated the myth as a scare tactic they he isn’t fit to govern. If any councilman ran through the streets yelling that the sky is falling without doing some research first, then he isn’t fit to govern. They all fall into one category or the other.
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This message was composed entirely of 100% recycled electrons; minimum 35% post-consumer content. | |
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| | skoko
Posts:50
| | 07/10/2007 9:09 AM |
Alert | | Is that "sailport" the landing zone on the highway heading for Gila Bend? Its been 3 years since we signed papers, and I would have to unpack some boxes in order to check but I'm certain when we signed one of the disclosures was an airport (or sailport) close by along with the cows and the dump and I always thought it was that one up on that highway W on Smith Enke. I'm sure many people haven't ventured down that highway so maybe many of you haven't seen it. My husband and I 4 WD down past it. | |
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~ Dr. Suess | |
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| | Fritzydoodle
Posts:956
| | 07/10/2007 9:54 AM |
Alert | For more information on the sailport - check out their website:
www.azsoaring.com
They've been in the same location since 1969. I just spoke with the manager, Jason. He has seen the signs posted along the road about possible annexation. But he is unaware of any 'take-over' by the City of Maricopa of their operation. Their FAA designator is E68.
I'm about to go into a meeting - I'll post more later when I have time. | |
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| | Cactus Rob
Posts:896
| | 07/10/2007 2:57 PM |
Alert | Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the value of large tracts of unimproved land in the proposed annexation area increase significantly once it is annexed? Or am I just old and cynical?  | | | |
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