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| | Author | Messages | |
NorCal Girl
Posts:164
 | | 07/30/2007 5:59 PM |
 Alert | Posted By magnetic on 07/30/2007 11:39 AM
When you have a few moments check out fdmaricopa.org talk about nepotism!!
Father, 2 sons and mom all have jobs within the Maricopa FD. OOPS now it's 1 son.
Check the promotion photos that are posted there
Good detective work Magnetic. You're too funny. | | | |
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| | Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/30/2007 6:01 PM |
Alert | Posted By Too_legit_to_quit on 07/30/2007 2:07 PM
when are they going to can the idiot sheriffs deputy who tazed a victim?
They're not. The PCSO investigation concluded no wrong-doing on the part of the officer, whom they supposedly couldn't even identify.  | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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| | Tjtellez9
Posts:228
| | 07/30/2007 6:01 PM |
Alert | | and who supposedly wasnt drinking.......??/ | | | |
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| | magnetic
Posts:111
| | 07/30/2007 7:24 PM |
Alert | Maricopa Fire District
SECTION
02.06
Reference
DATE
04/14/04
Subject: NEPOTISM
PURPOSE: To establish a policy regarding the employment of relatives.
STATEMENT OF POLICY: The Maricopa Fire District does not discourage the employment of relatives. The District will not employ close family members (spouses, children, brothers, sisters, parents, grandparents, grandchildren, parents-in-law, sons and daughters-in-law, brothers and sisters-in-law, nieces, nephews, aunts, uncles) to work under the direct supervision of another such family member.
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25th Infantry Division
<----
Tropic Lightning
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| | RAWTAZ
Posts:29
| | 07/30/2007 8:58 PM |
Alert | My question in all of this is there a morals clause in the FireFighters employment contract?
Is there an employment contract?
Are you employed with the knowledge that if you are in a bar fight you will be fired or disciplined?
As an employee of the city are you to behave in a certain manor when not on duty contractually.
If the Sheriffs department found that there were no reasons to file charges then what laws have been broken.
This will one day bite someone who is in charge some day because to hold these young men to this level, you better not live in a glass house.
To the zealots that are happy of the firing. Do you want Fire Fighters to be gun shy about what they do, do you want to consult an attorney about what to do when you house is burning, I think not, you want them to react, jump into a burning house and grab your kid and get out. You don't want them to think about it, you just want them to do it.
It is very easy when you are in your home all cool and comfy to say that they should have not done it, that they should of thought before they acted, but you cannot have it both ways.
These types of postions require people who are wired different then you, they are the types that act now and ask questions later. I feel that from the little that is public about the situation exactly, that is what occured. Good no, but in my book if they did not act that way I would not want them to be Fire Fighters.
I feel that a public apology is definetly warranted, some community service and an apology to Ramsey and the residents of the city, is all in order. Learn from this move on to doing what you love to do.
But to be termanated, from actions while off duty is a thin line that I do not think we should be walking.
If this type of mentality continues then I would hate to see what we end up with. Your Neighbor, the fire fighter stands by and watches your house burn because he may get fired for not doing something exactly as some would see he should do.
A police officer who drives by some heinous criminal act because he will sued for his actions or termanated for his actions. Sad Days those would be, sad days.
I find it hard to believe of what I know of Ramsey that he is happy about this outcome. And if he is then shame on him.
Ron Wilson
TAZ | |
Ride it like you stole it! | |
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| | RAWTAZ
Posts:29
| | 07/30/2007 9:07 PM |
Alert | Posted By azcarcarrier on 07/29/2007 3:56 PM
Sure is interesting that you are so concerned about the way the chief made a disciplinary decision. I have a couple of questions to ask about FD employment practices.
Are more than 1 family member allowed to work for the same FD.
I understand the FD of Maricopa / or Fire
Protection District within the last 45 days
employeed 4 family members. Is this OK
Please Advise ASAP
Ahh the Glass House. Oh Oh. Smoking Gun, there always is one in the end, as there was only one without sin. Something we all should remember. | |
Ride it like you stole it! | |
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|  | critter9
Posts:15
| | 07/30/2007 9:50 PM |
Alert | | since you are all so ready to get rid of the firefighters for an off the clock incident i sure hope you are ready to suit up and take their places. | | | |
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| | mallardisme
Posts:572
| | 07/30/2007 10:23 PM |
Alert | Gaaa. Not used the quotes yet.
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Let X=X | |
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| | mallardisme
Posts:572
| | 07/30/2007 10:49 PM |
Alert | RAWTAZ,
You make many valid points.
I am not sure termination was the best choice, but that was up to the fire chief, and I will respect the ruling.
With that said, there still remains an issue for 'off the clock'
Here is a fun story. This really happened and can be found through public records of the LASO.
My father was also a photographer.
He was working at the Hollywood bowl during a SAG strike. This was a benefit for SAG while they were on strike. (Early 80's I believe)
He had all of the needed credentials and was very courtious of the paying public at the event.
He was asked by security guards to move. He complied to where they told him to go, twice. The third time he was asked to move to a new location he asked the guard to go to the people in charge of the event and tell him where he should be. The guard went to do this and my father stood in a very out of the way area to wait for instructions.
While the guard was gone, a man approached him from the audience and told him that the guard told him to move. My father told him that he was not in anyone's way, his hands and cameras were down and he told the gentleman that the guard would be back to help straighten this out.
At that point the man became irate and twirled may father around, cameras and lenses flying and threw him on his fase and pulled his arm up behind his head so far that he actually suffered a detached retna in his eaye and numerous ripped muscles in his chest.
At that point more guards came up and my father demanded that the person be arrested for assault.
That was when the person identified himself as an off duty LA Sheriff Officer.
Of course an internal investigation ensued and there was a civil lawsuit that was paid out by LA County. The 'Officer' was not fired, but his carreer ended that day. He would never move in the department. Yes, alcohol was also involved.
That is the danger of having public servants not have a code of conduct off duty. In their minds, they never are off duty. In the citizens minds, they are not either.
If I was injured in an accident and I had an off duty Firefighter stop to lend me aid where his judgement was blurred, even for a moment by rage, alcohol or anything, I would rather not have that type of help.
This officer truly believed he was helping, but was too out of control, off duty to help and, in fact, he hurt an innocent person and brought shame down on his very badge.
The intersting note about the event was that the photograpeher was the brother in law of the then time president of SAG. He was actually there to support their cause.
Sources: Personal, LA Times, LA Herald Examiner, LASO reports and LA County Municipal and Civil courts. | |
Let X=X | |
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| | mallardisme
Posts:572
| | 07/30/2007 11:06 PM |
Alert | Critter9,
I am not worthy of the job. I, personally could not do the job that is presented as a firefighter. I know it too well. That is why I spent 25 years showing what these heros do so the public could see it, and understand just how hard the job is.
God Bless the Firefighter. They will save you from anything they can before they ask any questions about who anyone is.
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Let X=X | |
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| | bitterbeard
Posts:207
| | 07/30/2007 11:12 PM |
Alert | Posted By critter9 on 07/30/2007 9:50 PM
since you are all so ready to get rid of the firefighters for an off the clock incident i sure hope you are ready to suit up and take their places.
If I could switch from my current career into a probie without a pay change, I'd totally do it. | | | |
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| | mallardisme
Posts:572
| | 07/31/2007 12:40 AM |
Alert | Hmmm, Bitterbeard... Jose Cuervo was a Ninja?
Wasn't that the issue? LOL
Duck before the taze hits.  | |
Let X=X | |
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| | bitterbeard
Posts:207
| | 07/31/2007 12:53 AM |
Alert | | Funny part is the quote was from a comic and I had the comic artist draw up the picture for me, I don't even drink | | | |
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| | GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 07/31/2007 4:02 AM |
Alert | Posted By critter9 on 07/30/2007 9:50 PM
since you are all so ready to get rid of the firefighters for an off the clock incident i sure hope you are ready to suit up and take their places.
No need to try and induce guilt with a line like this. There are thousands of folks who wish to be firefighters and who would not engage in this sort of conduct. Now that this decision has been made, two more of them will get their shot.
RAWTAZ, your post was well-thought out. However, I do not agree that this has set a standard so high that it will be unmanageable in the future. This standard is neither new nor unique. Other departments have similar standards from coast to coast. Believe it or not, other departments do, in fact, have the occasional unfortunate incident as this one had. The difference is, they are usually larger departments where such things do not get so widely noticed.
Off-duty conduct in public is stressed to all newly-minted public servants as being just as important as being on-duty. This is especially true while being out and about in the city you serve. The time for drunken shenanigans is at a private barbecue in someone's backyard. That's the sort of thing that nobody would dare cast an evil eye towards...because it is on your time, in your private space.
And that's the real problem we had here. You can't have "conduct unbecoming" if you're in your backyard and nobody sees. But when things like this go down at a crowded bar one half mile from your department's Headquarters, thats just an awful decision all the way around.
Either way, what's done is now done. Time for the two firefighters to pick up, learn, and find success elsewhere. We're a rather forgiving society (just ask Paris Hilton), so something tells me they will do just fine. | | | |
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| | SouthBronx
Posts:69
| | 07/31/2007 6:26 AM |
Alert | I was arguing for their firing, because what the firefighters in question did was very wrong.
However, in retrospect, I believe that a suspension would have been more appropriate and would also have gotten the message across.
I would support a reinstatement if Chris Hertzog received a 2 month suspension and Cody, and any others involved, received various suspensions, depending on what they did, up to 1 month.
With the suspensions, Chris, Cody and any others would get the strong message, and I am sure that they would come back to their jobs with the knowledge that they have received a strong warning. I am sure they are sincerely sorry by this time for their actions.
So, if the reinstatement petition can be amended, I would definitely read it and, if these conditions are included, I would sign it.
Jack | | | |
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| | rattle2
Posts:131
| | | SouthBronx
Posts:69
| | 07/31/2007 7:19 AM |
Alert | In Boston and in NYC, 2 members of the same family would not be allowed to work in the same firehouse. In Boston and in NYC, there are a lot of high rise buildings, which occasionally do have fires. It is possible that 2 members could be fighting the same fire if the fire were so large that the Battalion Chiefs called for additional fire fighting support from other fire houses.
Here in Maricopa, we don't have any high risers yet. We are supposed to have 6 fire stations eventually. I have seen 3 so far, but there might be more than that. Hopefully, the fire department will assign fire fighters from the same family to different stations and different shifts to get around this problem. | | | |
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| | RAWTAZ
Posts:29
| | 07/31/2007 7:49 AM |
Alert | RAWTAZ, your post was well-thought out. However, I do not agree that this has set a standard so high that it will be unmanageable in the future. This standard is neither new nor unique. Other departments have similar standards from coast to coast. Believe it or not, other departments do, in fact, have the occasional unfortunate incident as this one had. The difference is, they are usually larger departments where such things do not get so widely noticed.
We have police officers in our family, and are well aware of what happens in the "REAL" world. This small town, is just that a small town and things happen and everyone knows everyones business. In Detroit, Chicago, Boston, Cleveland this would of never made any news. I feel that the offending Officer would have been flogged by the Chief, had to write a Chief wiefy letter, and wash dishes at the establishment where they got stupid.
The reasoning behind my lack of support is that if the Sheriff on the scene would have believed that the FF's in question where in the wrong, said "Victim" would have never been tazed. I don't think we have a conspiracy here between a few 20 something public servants. We have an testosterone filled event in a bar, between some young bucks, over most likly a very pretty lady and that is that.
The punishment does not fit the crime in my opinion. I feel that the political pressure was so bad from not responding at all initially, to having to crucify these young men in the end to quell the riot that was going on and I think that is just wrong.
All sides have over-reacted in this issue and it needs to be made right with them.
To all the Pompus Zealots, when you could die any day you wake up doing your job, you may just not react the same as the rest of us keyboard punching sheeple in the community. Oh and do it for most likely a 1/3 of your annual income!
Remember, We are not talking about a situation where the guy was drug behind the bar and put in the hospital. The guy got popped in the nose for being a jerk, and it appears that he felt he was being a jerk also as he never pressed charges.
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Ride it like you stole it! | |
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| | maricopacabana
Posts:338
| | 07/31/2007 8:12 AM |
Alert | While it is unfortunate for these employees to fired. I can't support the Chief changing his position based on public sentiment. He is responsible for the department. He is trying to establish a culture in the Department that will serve the City well. Read his editorial regarding this. His last paragraph sums it all up.
"That is the prime management directive in the Fire Department of Maricopa. That statement drives our culture. Our mission is one of great importance. It is one of compassion and love. If we don't have compassion and love for one another at work how can we share this with the public we serve? Like charity compassion begins at home. We have a few other simple rules, "Tell the truth," be on time and never bring discredit to our mission or our department."
These employees were hired on under a Code of Conduct. It is on their website but briefly it states regarding this type of incident.
"9. The employee has engaged in conduct, on or off duty that is of such a nature that it causes discredit to the District.
10. The employee has purchased, possessed, used, manufactured, distributed, dispensed, or sold alcoholic beverages, unauthorized drugs or controlled substances, or any other intoxicants on District property, while operating District equipment, or while in the performance of District duties unless authorized to do so; or the employee has reported to work under the influence of alcohol or drugs as defined in the District Drug-Free Workplace Policy; or the employee’s off-duty use, possession, or sale of drugs or alcohol adversely affects work performance, safety, or the District’s reputation."
It is clear what is expected of the employees. He made the decision he felt was needed. If the citizens start forcing change in how the department heads conduct their business this could be a serious precedent.
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| | maricopacabana
Posts:338
| | 07/31/2007 8:12 AM |
Alert | | Double post | | | |
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