anewman
Posts:668
 | | 07/29/2007 3:13 PM |
 Alert | Posted By cashton on 07/29/2007 3:03 PM
Just to clear things up. I was on my probationary year. 4 months from completeing it. Chris Hertzog has been on the job almost 2 years. He was not on probation.
I will be honest and say though I feel you did deserve some form of punishment for being partially involved- I think you being let go is extreme since you did not throw the punch. Since you were still on probation it gave them a quick solution. Same probably would have happened if you were on proabation with Mesa or Phoenix- even if it didn't make the paper or a public forum.
If Chris is the one that threw the punch than sorry- but I feel he deservs to loose his job. If he was punched and then retaliated than maybe I would feel different but to throw the first punch shows lack of judgement.
Hope you will find success in which ever avenue you travel.
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"The jouney of life is as much in oneself' as the roads one travels"
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azcarcarrier
Posts:306
| | 07/29/2007 3:56 PM |
Alert | Sure is interesting that you are so concerned about the way the chief made a disciplinary decision. I have a couple of questions to ask about FD employment practices.
Are more than 1 family member allowed to work for the same FD.
I understand the FD of Maricopa / or Fire
Protection District within the last 45 days
employeed 4 family members. Is this OK
Please Advise ASAP | | | |
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anewman
Posts:668
| | 07/29/2007 4:13 PM |
Alert | Posted By azcarcarrier on 07/29/2007 3:56 PM
Sure is interesting that you are so concerned about the way the chief made a disciplinary decision. I have a couple of questions to ask about FD employment practices.
Are more than 1 family member allowed to work for the same FD.
I understand the FD of Maricopa / or Fire
Protection District within the last 45 days
employeed 4 family members. Is this OK
Please Advise ASAP
From seeing the other issues the city has there is probably no policy on it. If these fireman were working for the department before the city took over there would probably be a 'grandfather' clause stating they were allowed- but from "specific date" the following policy would be in effect.
Being that this was a volunteer fire department at one time the usual rules and regs would not neccesarily apply. If there is not a policy or rules and ethics for off duty behavior than there is probably no written policy on this matter either.
I have heard of famiy members working for the same department(in other cities)- usual policy would be one cannot have direct supervision over another or be part of an investigative or advisary board if a family member is involved.
Same is done at most large corporations.
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"The jouney of life is as much in oneself' as the roads one travels"
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06woman
Posts:356
| | 07/29/2007 4:23 PM |
Alert | Posted By Phantom78 on 07/29/2007 1:44 PM
This is a right to work state many companies find reasons to termiinate employees. Doesn't matter that this incident happened off company hours.
The firing is excessive (IMO), 2 weeks off without pay would have been appropriate.
Being a "Right to Work" state has to do with union shops.
They are public employees and are entitled to due process. Employment at will does not necessarily apply to the public sector. In the private sector, employees are not protected by the Bill of Rights, however, public sector employees are and that includes due process. They got their due process. | |
"Happiness is a journey...not a destination."
"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about." -
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
This is my son and a Lake Erie sunset. July 8,2007
Senior Member
Posts: 2268
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tank69
Posts:0
| | 07/29/2007 4:26 PM |
Alert | | They made their choices and now they must pay for their actions. They did wrong and should be lucky they aren't facing more charges. | | | |
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D-BO
Posts:88
| | 07/29/2007 4:48 PM |
Alert | Tony:
I find it rather ironic that you would take such a position regarding a matter that was obviously caused by a certain amount of irresponsable drinking. It seems not too long ago that you were upon your soap box spitting extrordanary amounts of venom in regard to people who drink and drive. I kind of view drunk in public, drunk and disorderly, and any other "drunk" activity to be along the same path as those who drink and drive. Just curious to your thought process. | | | |
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ravensnest
Posts:120
| | 07/29/2007 5:05 PM |
Alert | | No way would i sign this. These individuals damaged the fire department and brought a good deal of shame to this city.. Driving drunk, looking for fights and punching people in the nose is not the type of fire department we should have in Maricopa. Firemen over all are well respected people and deserve such but the conduct of these individuals do not qualify them as such. | | | |
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queen_of_the_damned
Posts:2
| | 07/29/2007 5:58 PM |
Alert | | I can see every one's view on this matter and I agree that something had to happen but really, fire them i mean come on they weren't on duty when they went in the bar. Yes there actions were unnecessary , but so was the punishment . They deserve the right to be able to have a normal life outside of their work . I mean really look how many police officers on or off duty do the same or worse and are just reprimanded not fired for there action everyone messes up and everyone deserves a fair try | | | |
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Fritzydoodle
Posts:980
| | 07/29/2007 6:06 PM |
Alert | | See the very LONG post I made under the I am Sorry by Cody Ashton thread. There may have been a policy in place from the Maricopa Fire District that covered off-duty conduct that applied to this instance. | |
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nofreepass
Posts:56
| | 07/29/2007 6:40 PM |
Alert | | I am surprised nobody has brought up that Hertzog got an extreme DUI a year ago. | | | |
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ravensnest
Posts:120
| | 07/29/2007 7:51 PM |
Alert | A dui, driving around drunk looking for a fight, reports of other fights, punching people in the nose. Thats not the type of fire department employees we should have. To quote another poster from another thread. " Herzog and Ashton you like to fight? Sign up for duty in Iraq. They are looking for a few good men."
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Phantom78
Posts:232
| | 07/29/2007 9:04 PM |
Alert | | I don't agree with the decision to fire them but we need to stick by that decision. The chief should be allowed to make the call. He doesn't take orders from the community. | |
It’s not a glass half full (optimism) or a glass half empty (pessimism)—it’s half of a glass of water (reality). Expend your energy and mental capacity on something worthwhile!
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bitterbeard
Posts:207
| | 07/29/2007 9:22 PM |
Alert | Posted By magnetic on 07/29/2007 1:27 PM
I say keep them fired. They were involved in an assault.
This whole thing is bad for everyone, but I have to say also if they cannot handle themselves in their off hours within their own city. We do not need their services.
Firefighters like Police are community role models and need to keep that in mind at all times, part of their duty as Firefighers and Police officers.
It is really sad this has ended like it has but an example had to be set it seems and a line drawn that nobody else should cross. | | | |
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AZ_KD
Posts:31
| | 07/29/2007 9:22 PM |
Alert | I quit reading all of the posts after this fight happened. It's really none of my business.
If a firefighter showed up at my house to put out a fire and decided to punch one of us....I'd be upset. What they do in their off time (right or wrong) has nothing to do with their job.
Of course there are exceptions to that but getting into an altercation at a bar in this town.....seems a bit crazy to lose your career over. | | | |
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GilaGuy
Posts:789
| | 07/30/2007 4:31 AM |
Alert | Posted By Phantom78 on 07/29/2007 9:04 PM
I don't agree with the decision to fire them but we need to stick by that decision. The chief should be allowed to make the call. He doesn't take orders from the community.
I agree. The "what" of the punishment is up to the Chief. He has their personnel files, presumably has access to the results of their pre-hire background investigation, and therefore has the ability to check for recurring problems or themes. If he made the decision to terminate these employees, he did so with far more knowledge than any of us has access to. It is an extremely tough call, but I will not second-guess PCSO in their findings of this incident, or the Fire Chief in his determination of the punishment.
So with that I cannot, in good conscience, sign this petition. | | | |
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OBG II
Posts:553
| | 07/30/2007 6:49 AM |
Alert | I had a boss at ### that made a gay advance to someone OFF DUTY and away from the premises. He was fired and no amount of protesting by his minions got him reinstated. This was not a felony or misdemeanor. He was a very well-liked person. Sad but true.
Point is, if they want you gone, your gone. | |
Some people will do anything to get elected!
IMPALIN' THE LEFT | |
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stinkerbell2
Posts:0
| | 07/30/2007 7:04 AM |
Alert | This is an unfortunate incident and in some way effects all of us here in Maricopa. I would have to agree with GG- We dont know their history- That said I know of someone who worked for Maricopa County Sheriff's dept and he was told by his supervisors that with the antics of his wife (now Ex wife-she was a raging alcohoic and would get stopped for DUI's and driven home cus she was "so and so" wife) He would not het promotions! So you see SOMETIMES when you work for the public sector is it not just "you" it can also be the actions of your family.
Hopefully these 2 young men can move past this and learn from it. Its too bad it had to come to this and that a hard lesson had to be learned. I do think they should get some type of anger management / alcohol "managment" (especially if its true that one of them got a DUI not too long ago...)imo | | | |
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gizmo
Posts:167
| | 07/30/2007 7:33 AM |
Alert | | I stand by the chief. These guys were probably the same jocks in High School that intimidated and threatened the general populous. There is nothing worse that this type of person. What right do they have to even touch another person let alone cold cock him? Assualt = Loss of job. | | | |
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Tempting Fait1
Posts:728
| | 07/30/2007 7:44 AM |
Alert | I've stayed out until now but....The actions of "that night" were beat to death, screamed, ranted and raved over about how horrible it was and demanded blood.
Blood has been let in the form of 2 firings and now you are all screaming, ranting and raving against that too. WHAT DO YOU WANT???
Chris LIED in his post, he stated he never threw a punch, when, from what I was told by someone that was there the entire night, he hit 2 people. The first time the Chief stepped in and warned him, the 2nd was after the chief left---kinda makes you go hmmmmm. | |
The red head is BACK!! (and still mouthy)
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fireinside
Posts:15
| | 07/30/2007 7:56 AM |
Alert | | I hope that we can all recover from this | |
*PLEASE WATCH YOUR CHILDREN AROUND WATER* | |
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