Tjtellez9
Posts:228
 | | 07/29/2007 12:36 PM |
 Alert | I truly believe that though we all thought punishment was necessarry that we all also believed that an investigation would have been performed promptly and that if no charges are filed the punishment would be far from harsh.
No matter what your beliefs in the situation, the firing of these two men was by far unwarranted.
http://www.petitiononline.com/85239/petition.html
That is a link to a petition for their immediate reinstatement by the city until a proper investigation has been completed.
This is not a call for them to not be punished. Just for a proper investigation to be carried out to determine what the proper punishment should be
Now someone earlier said the probation period issue. It must be stated for the record that as Arizona is a right to work state unless you are charged with a felony it is against the law to fire an employee for situations which occurred outside of the work time frame and environment.
Please sign the petition. Make a recomendation for proper punishment and move forward. | | | |
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allseeingeye
Posts:9
| | 07/29/2007 12:53 PM |
Alert | | Do you work for the fire department? Do you know the employment history of these individuals? How do you know this was the ONLY violation of employment? Are you aware of the number of probabationary employees that have been fired by the FD in the past and given no reason other than that they are still on probabation and don't need a reason? | | | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/29/2007 12:55 PM |
Alert | | What you are doing is a very nice and proactive thing for our firefighters, but I think we're missing some facts. Arizona is an "employment at will" state, meaning an employer can fire you at any time, without cause and no warning. Maybe this is what happened? We don't know until someone in the city makes some sort of statement. | |
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Tjtellez9
Posts:228
| | 07/29/2007 1:17 PM |
Alert | The fact that we had to find out of their firing from THEM and not the city or the fire department is enough for me.
No I don't work for the FD. But I do have friends on the force as well as other FD forces around the nation.
And JAson, the at will employment issue was already addressed. They cannot be fired based on something that happened off the clock UNLESS its a felony conviction. whether its an at will state or not.
There should have been a due process in place and there wasn't. Henceforth they deserve a fair and balanced investigation. | | | |
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Tjtellez9
Posts:228
| | 07/29/2007 1:18 PM |
Alert | | 6 signatures in less than an hour. thats a start. | | | |
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magnetic
Posts:111
| | 07/29/2007 1:27 PM |
Alert | | I say keep them fired. They were involved in an assault. | |
25th Infantry Division
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Tropic Lightning
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twostep23
Posts:1687
| | 07/29/2007 1:39 PM |
Alert | | Signed!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
Senior Member
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Phantom78
Posts:232
| | 07/29/2007 1:44 PM |
Alert | This is a right to work state many companies find reasons to termiinate employees. Doesn't matter that this incident happened off company hours.
The firing is excessive (IMO), 2 weeks off without pay would have been appropriate. | |
It’s not a glass half full (optimism) or a glass half empty (pessimism)—it’s half of a glass of water (reality). Expend your energy and mental capacity on something worthwhile!
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queen shiba
Posts:76
| | 07/29/2007 1:45 PM |
Alert | Yes it is a very unfortunate thing that these two fire fighters were terminated but I feel that the Chief made the best decision. I am sure that the decision was not very easy and all the angles were reviewed prior to making the decision final.
The public also doesn’t know what the prior history was with these two individuals and to solely judge on this one incident is not really right. The way I look at it is there are some jobs that even though you are not on the clock you still have to act in a certain manner when you are out in public. Being a fire fighter, police officer, doctor, nurse or any job that you are in the eye of the public and or in a position of power. In these types of jobs the public looks up to you so those individuals in these types of jobs must take the extra initiative to make sure they behave in a certain manner when they are in public. This really should apply to everyone because no one should act in this manner but it is more imperative when you are in the line of work they were both in. In fact I have known people who dont do these types of jobs get fired due to these types of situations. So, if they dont avoid termination of their jobs neither should these two fire fighters. They are not any different. Both of these men made a bad decision and because of that now they lost their jobs and careers. That is why it is very important that you make good choices when you are in the public eye. If you want a good reputation you have to make sure you respect everyone, yourself and act in a prudent manner.
I hope they both learn from this and continue plugging along. They are both still young and can still do great things if they dont let this incident get them down. They need to look ahead and be positive. Who knows maybe after a period of time they can get back into the health/helping industry again.
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Queen Shiba
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Tjtellez9
Posts:228
| | 07/29/2007 1:57 PM |
Alert | So for example a southwest pilot on a recent flight sat next to me on a run home for a few days. He had about 6 bottles of jack daniels and was beligerent and puking by the end of the flight. I am suyre he still has a job.
DO you know about their past Queen? | | | |
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Tjtellez9
Posts:228
| | 07/29/2007 1:58 PM |
Alert | | what I mean to say is we can assume their past just as we can assume they didnt deserve to be fired. | | | |
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queen shiba
Posts:76
| | 07/29/2007 2:17 PM |
Alert | Posted By Tjtellez9 on 07/29/2007 1:57 PM
So for example a southwest pilot on a recent flight sat next to me on a run home for a few days. He had about 6 bottles of jack daniels and was beligerent and puking by the end of the flight. I am suyre he still has a job.
DO you know about their past Queen?
This has nothing to do with what occured at Ramsey's. This individual that you are referring to was not investigated for any criminal wrong doing unlike the fire fighters. There is a possibilty that if SW Airlines found out how one of their pilots was behaving on a flight that some type of diciplinary action would occur. As a matter fact if pilots get DUI's for driving they can loose their job as a pilot. The bottom line is that the cheif with all the available information made the decision that he felt was appropriate for his department.
Yes you are right I dont know their full employement history and many people dont including you. There could of been lots of issues prior to this incident that caused the Cheif to make the decision that he did or this could of been the only issue. We the public dont really know all of the in's and out's but the Cheif has a job to do and if firing someone from a department because of a particular wrong doing is what needs to happen then that is what needs to occur. | |
Queen Shiba
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Tjtellez9
Posts:228
| | 07/29/2007 2:19 PM |
Alert | SO then lets see the public release of the investigation and report.
If there is a history then I see some reasoning, but if there isnt, then the punishment was more than severe. | | | |
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queen shiba
Posts:76
| | 07/29/2007 2:26 PM |
Alert | I agree I would like to see that report also.
Plus remember prior to this incident there was an editorial by the Fire Chief talking about integrity and character within the fire department. This behavior was contrary to what he was trying to establish and maybe these fire fighters were used to set as an example, because this contradicted what he was trying to indicate in his prior editorial. | |
Queen Shiba
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magnetic
Posts:111
| | 07/29/2007 2:28 PM |
Alert | | When you are on probation the rules are different. | |
25th Infantry Division
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Tjtellez9
Posts:228
| | 07/29/2007 2:29 PM |
Alert | | so perhaps this is an obvious ego stain. He publishes this editorial then BOOM something happens. Someone has to take the fall. so Voila! | | | |
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magnetic
Posts:111
| | 07/29/2007 2:30 PM |
Alert | | Sometimes you have to walk away. They decided to fight, now you have to pay for your actions. | |
25th Infantry Division
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Tropic Lightning
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magnetic
Posts:111
| | 07/29/2007 2:33 PM |
Alert | | Nice language. You must be related or some how involved with these individuals. Relax. The Chief handled it correctly. | |
25th Infantry Division
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Tropic Lightning
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anewman
Posts:668
| | 07/29/2007 2:42 PM |
Alert | Posted By Tjtellez9 on 07/29/2007 2:30 PM
magnetic will you STFu about the probation thing.....I am well aware of the probation period etc... its bearing on this issue is not relevant
I would disagree. If these gentlemen where still on their probationary period it very may well be the reason they were let go.
With the number of people trying to become a firefighter- an action that created public embarrasment to the department would get anyone -still on probation- at any fire department released.
You can create and sign a petition but until the city and the fire department address the situation in the correct manner it is not going to mean anything.
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"The jouney of life is as much in oneself' as the roads one travels"
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cashton
Posts:4
| | 07/29/2007 3:03 PM |
Alert | | Just to clear things up. I was on my probationary year. 4 months from completeing it. Chris Hertzog has been on the job almost 2 years. He was not on probation. | | | |
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