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Subject: Health care and Obama
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AuthorMessages
RingoUser is Offline

Posts:144

09/03/2008 6:06 PM Alert 

Obama wants health care for every American, just another way to TAX  Americans that already have health care!

Obama wants to help the homeless or "poor"  Already many ways for the poor or homeless to help themselves, without raising taxes.

Obama wants to change America but will not tell us why!!  Why Obama? Why do you want to change America?


The bailout is wrong. We should not do it. My God this is the stupidest idea ever. Bush is stupid if he signs this. But he has done other stupid things
drummer72User is Offline

Posts:3886


09/03/2008 9:08 PM Alert 
Maybe you should call him, Gringo!? I don't believe Obama is on this forum too often.
I have NO PROBLEM with paying more taxes, to help others afford/get health insurance.
When you think about all the money we pay for insurance, it all comes out in the wash.
But no, some of you numbskulls won't think that way.

"Everything for everyone and nothing for ourselves"
WompusUser is Offline

Posts:634

09/03/2008 10:02 PM Alert 
How does pooling your starbucks money with the masses so crack momma can pop out more kids make you anything less than a sheep... or lamb? A lion would have the guts to say enough is enough.
thickUser is Offline

Posts:652

09/03/2008 11:33 PM Alert 

I don't know if this site is truly "balanced," but I thought it listed some good points with regard to national healthcare.  As you'll see, the list of cons is quite longer than the list of pros.

www.balancedpolitics.org/universal_health_care.htm

 

 

SouthBronxUser is Offline

Posts:70

09/04/2008 7:24 AM Alert 
In reading the cons from that website, I noticed these 2 in the list:
. Patients aren't likely to curb their drug costs and doctor visits if health care is free; thus, total costs will be several times what they are now.
. Just because Americans are uninsured doesn't mean they can't receive health care; nonprofits and government-run hospitals provide services to those who don't have insurance, and it is illegal to refuse emergency medical service because of a lack of insurance.

In New York, my wife worked for a Pediatric Doctors health clinic for 15 years.
The town next to where the health center was had a lot of "poor white" people. Since they got free health care from Medicaid, the people actually took taxis to see the doctors, and sent urine specimens by taxi to the doctors. The government paid for the taxis. When a child had a mild cold, they would bring in that child, and sometimes 9 other kids to have them all checked. In 99% of the cases, there was nothing wrong with the children at all. But, they didn't have to pay, so they didn't care at all.
In some cases, the mother had no identification and had no insurance card. But, the doctors treated them anyway, and passed the cost along to the government.
Free healthcare, or free anything, brings nothing but abuse. Anyone who proposes it is definitely out of touch with the way things work.
JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:3446


09/04/2008 8:13 AM Alert 
Quality of health care should not be dependant on how much money you make. That is very un-American. Maybe not national health care, but something to help out those in need.

"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black
pbucklesUser is Offline

Posts:0

09/04/2008 8:43 AM Alert 
"Quality of health care should not be dependant on how much money you make. That is very un-American. Maybe not national health care, but something to help out those in need."

I agree health care based on wealth is not a good thing. Greed has our nation on a down-hill track. The government certainly has a role in regulating fair practice in all business. Should the government be expected to be parents to us all? NOPE!
Actually, people taking responsibility for themselves is what this nation was built on!! Socialistic policy, the government taking care of, and governing every need, is UN-AMERICAN! People helping each other is very American!! People expecting the government to take care of everything is UN-American!!! Methheads making crack babies, is UN-American. Liberals sitting back, doing nothing but whine about the failure of government to parent us all, that is UN-American. Conservatives sitiing back, protecting their purses while the other Americans struggle, that is UN-American!! The fighting between Americans within our political system is UN-American, nothing is accomplished, and we scream for "change". The changes necessary in this nation are not to be made by the "celebrity" politicians. Change in this nation can only be accomplished by the citizenry. Too many desire to have the government "change" our nation!!!!! Change to what? What the government desires the nation to be? Screw that!

Go out into your community, volunteer, walk the streets of a major city, see what's happening. Give a hand, maybe a buck or two, help build a home for someone who can't afford one, buy groceries for a single mother who can't make it. It is not the responsibility of the government, not if we desire to keep government from every facet of our lives!!!

No, I am NOT a Republican, I have NO PREFERENCE for any stupid political party. I am an American, tired of the whining and the hands out expecting the government to fill them.

Socialized government is simply UN-AMERICAN!!! Americans taking care of themselves, Americans helping others, that is AMERICAN. I sure as hell don't think we need any government to mandate charity to our nation!
JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:3446


09/04/2008 8:45 AM Alert 
Posted By pbuckles on 09/04/2008 8:43 AM
"Quality of health care should not be dependant on how much money you make. That is very un-American. Maybe not national health care, but something to help out those in need."

I agree health care based on wealth is not a good thing. Greed has our nation on a down-hill track. The government certainly has a role in regulating fair practice in all business. Should the government be expected to be parents to us all? NOPE!
Actually, people taking responsibility for themselves is what this nation was built on!! Socialistic policy, the government taking care of, and governing every need, is UN-AMERICAN! People helping each other is very American!! People expecting the government to take care of everything is UN-American!!! Methheads making crack babies, is UN-American. Liberals sitting back, doing nothing but whine about the failure of government to parent us all, that is UN-American. Conservatives sitiing back, protecting their purses while the other Americans struggle, that is UN-American!! The fighting between Americans within our political system is UN-American, nothing is accomplished, and we scream for "change". The changes necessary in this nation are not to be made by the "celebrity" politicians. Change in this nation can only be accomplished by the citizenry. Too many desire to have the government "change" our nation!!!!! Change to what? What the government desires the nation to be? Screw that!

Go out into your community, volunteer, walk the streets of a major city, see what's happening. Give a hand, maybe a buck or two, help build a home for someone who can't afford one, buy groceries for a single mother who can't make it. It is not the responsibility of the government, not if we desire to keep government from every facet of our lives!!!

No, I am NOT a Republican, I have NO PREFERENCE for any stupid political party. I am an American, tired of the whining and the hands out expecting the government to fill them.

Socialized government is simply UN-AMERICAN!!! Americans taking care of themselves, Americans helping others, that is AMERICAN. I sure as hell don't think we need any government to mandate charity to our nation!



I agree with you 100%, and honestly what you just wrote is better than any speech I heard on TV the last four weeks.  Honestly, that was awesome.  Thank You. 


"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black
Copa NewbeeUser is Offline

Posts:15

09/05/2008 1:00 AM Alert 

Actaully, the Americans that do have healthcare would see signifigant reductions in their premiums. By the way 46 million Americans , including 8 million children, do not have healthcare. I guess most Republicans don't feel it should bet their problem. Just because you are a Republican, does not mean you shouldn't be socially conscious. Why can't people look at issues from a human perspective, regardless of any political affiliation?

Anyway, instead of me posting replies to each of your comments. Click on this link, below and see what he stands for, yourself. You will have your "why's: answerred.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

 

 

 

Copa NewbeeUser is Offline

Posts:15

09/05/2008 1:06 AM Alert 

 

 

asugrlUser is Offline

Posts:723

09/05/2008 2:58 AM Alert 
And just because you are a Democrat does not mean you should be Socialist. If you want to give your money away to everyone else, be my guest. I prefer to choose who I give my extra money to.
thickUser is Offline

Posts:652

09/05/2008 7:45 AM Alert 
I am looking at national healthcare from a human AND a fiscal perspective, NOT political. Government management of our healthcare system is not the answer. Did you read and absorb the list of pros and cons from the website that I posted? I don't know if that site is biased, but the gist is that a national healthcare plan would turn into an even uglier beast than our welfare system. There definitely needs to be active reform to our current system, but national healthcare is not the answer. Creating a system that is cumbersome, inefficient and sub par is not an improvement.
*rikimaru*User is Offline

Posts:497


09/05/2008 8:37 AM Alert 
how much does that average american spend on health care premiums? i image 300 is the national average, even if taxes went up 200 a month on a family of 4, thats a 100 savings for that family. you know how many jobs would be created with universal healthcare which btw just about every country on the planet offers? think about it, an army of new doctors,nurses,administrative positions, construction jobs building new hospitals etc etc etc, americans would be employed, and not have to worry about health isurance for them&their family. like i said before, our military,police,education systems are socialized so why not healthcare? why not utilities&oil, why not have the goverment run these industries too? imagine how affordable these necessities would be with no big corporations aiming squarely for a profit off of these extremely vital necessities? taxes serve a purpose, we need better quality of life here so why not have the goverment work for us, instead of vice versa

listened for, they cannot be heard;looked for, they cannot be seen; felt for, they cannot be touched: old ninja proverb
cholo banditoUser is Offline

Posts:926

09/05/2008 9:06 AM Alert 
Posted By *rikimaru* on 09/05/2008 8:37 AM
how much does that average american spend on health care premiums? i image 300 is the national average, even if taxes went up 200 a month on a family of 4, thats a 100 savings for that family. you know how many jobs would be created with universal healthcare which btw just about every country on the planet offers? think about it, an army of new doctors,nurses,administrative positions, construction jobs building new hospitals etc etc etc, americans would be employed, and not have to worry about health isurance for them&their family. like i said before, our military,police,education systems are socialized so why not healthcare? why not utilities&oil, why not have the goverment run these industries too? imagine how affordable these necessities would be with no big corporations aiming squarely for a profit off of these extremely vital necessities? taxes serve a purpose, we need better quality of life here so why not have the goverment work for us, instead of vice versa

 

 

 

That already exists in China.  I am sure you will be happy with your communist buddies there.



I think the concept of god has outlived its usefulness. It is time to put it out of its misery.
geewizUser is Offline

Posts:482


09/05/2008 9:42 AM Alert 
The major problem with a govermental health care is that the goverment will tell the doctors what they will be paid and I'm sure it will be much less than they get now. This will cause some doctors to seek other jobs depleting the amount of doctors even more. You can expect to wait at least 2 weeks to see one then by then your well or dead. And then will the care be up to par?

Be strong ARMY STRONG America's backbone.
JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:3446


09/05/2008 10:48 AM Alert 
Um, when is the last time you scheduled a doctor's appointment and didn't have to wait at least two weeks anyways?????????

"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black
LeonPotterUser is Offline

Posts:653

09/05/2008 11:40 AM Alert 
So far all I've seen is an either or between healthcare premium or higher taxes. I'm in a different camp. Instead of doing either, I pay for any doctor out of pocket cash when something is needed. I choose the doctor I want. Cash is good everywhere. Oftentimes, rates are less for cash payers.

I'm against the idea of nationalized healthcare. The care isn't necessarily better and the services are abused. I don't see it as efficient. Also, i believe it takes away freedom. One reason I didn't like Mitt Romney as a candidate was the mandatory health insurance. The winner is the insurance companies not necessarily the public.

My answer WAS "NO" to Q#5 and Q#1.
Proverbs 22:7
The rich ruleth over the poor and the borrower is servant to the lender.
asugrlUser is Offline

Posts:723

09/05/2008 12:08 PM Alert 
Posted By JasonY on 09/05/2008 10:48 AM
Um, when is the last time you scheduled a doctor's appointment and didn't have to wait at least two weeks anyways?????????


Plenty of times. And we're not talking a few weeks here, anyway. My friend used to live in Canada. Both her parents are doctors. They had to move here to actually make good money from it, and she said people had to wait months to see a doctor there.

JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:3446


09/05/2008 1:41 PM Alert 
Posted By asugrl on 09/05/2008 12:08 PM
Posted By JasonY on 09/05/2008 10:48 AM
Um, when is the last time you scheduled a doctor's appointment and didn't have to wait at least two weeks anyways?????????


Plenty of times. And we're not talking a few weeks here, anyway. My friend used to live in Canada. Both her parents are doctors. They had to move here to actually make good money from it, and she said people had to wait months to see a doctor there.

I want to switch to your doctor then.....seriously.   I call and if I am lucky I can get in the next month.  Thank God for Urgent Care. 


"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black
hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:1011


09/05/2008 4:21 PM Alert 

If your MD will not see you right away when you are ill, then you need to find another one. We have never had an MD that would not tell us to come right in if we called with the flu, nausea, back thrown out , etc.  The five GPs that we have had over the years have always said come on in and we will work you in somehow. You definitely need to shop around for a new doc.

Regarding socialized health care - A few years ago an elderly relative from the UK , who was suffering from cancer, was visiting us in NJ. he suffered a setback while in the US, and had to be hospitalized. After a few days he was able to leave the hospital and continue his last vacation. He could not stop praising his medical care in the US as compared to the socialized system in the UK. A semi-private room rather than an open ward with a couple of dozen beds about two feet apart from each other. Professional nurses rather than poorly trained third world immigrants who had a problem with the language and acted as if you were intruding on their social life if you asked them for aid. MDs who could prescribe procedures and meds without getting a government bureaucrat's approval. After he died, his wife told us that toward the end his doc said that he should have an oxygen set up at home. He was put on the government's waiting list for the equipment. He died before getting it. Socialized medicine? No thanks!

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