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Subject: Eight years of Republican spending passes record defict to next President
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MaricopaKenUser is Offline

Posts:144


08/27/2008 6:38 PM Alert 

I keep reading all the regular bashers here on the Forum who continuously label Democrats as "Socialists"  or "Mommy to the masses" or giving entitlements to all of those who don't work , you know the ones looking for the free hand out. Is that the best you can argue? Funny, if that's the case why is the next President going to be handed the largest deficit in U.S.history?  Funny, the last Republican that served an eight year term did the same thing to America. Reagan did that to Papa Bush didn't he? Didn't he say "Read my  lips no new taxes" ? He lost  his bid for a second term because he had to raise taxes to cover all the give aways to the Defense and Military contractors that his Republican predecessor handed him!  

If you want to balance the budget and watch Wall Street and the Dollar regain the strengths they had eight years ago, consider voting Democrat!

hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:1011


08/27/2008 7:42 PM Alert 

OK, time for a basic civics lesson. The President of the US can not authorize the raising of one cent in taxes,nor can he authorize the spending of one cent. The power of the purse belongs to Congress. Only Congress can raise money (taxes) or authorize spending .read Article 1, Sec 8, Clause 1 of the Constitution. 

Please note that the Democrats ( including Obama and Clinton) have been in charge of Congress for the past few years, so every cent raised, spent, and borrowed, was done with their collective  approval. You say that the Democrats will balance the budget if Obama wins the election. Why wait? They control Congress, they decide how much money is raised and how much is spent. In the past few years they could have balanced the budget anytime they wanted to. Why did they not do so? 

 Much as it may amuse people to blame the President of the other party for taxes and spending it is an error, especially when the President is of one party and the Congress is controlled by the other. There is plenty of blame to go around when talking about our national debt. Presidents and Congresses of both parties should be ashamed of themselves. Most of the blame however should fall on the voters who demand more and more benefits from the government without being willing to pay for them.

If you add up the wish list of the Democratic platform, you will see that it will require a huge increase in spending. Where will that money come from? It will have to be higher taxes or increased deficit spending. The mantra seems to be "tax the rich". this is a simplistic answer that appeals to the Democratic masses who , in the words of a former Democratic congressman, say "don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree".

I am sure that the Republicans will also have a long wish list that is not paid for. As I said, both parties are at fault for playing this shell game. We are at fault for letting them get away with it.

It is all well and good to say tax the rich to pay for benefits for others, but even  if you confiscate everything from the rich to pay for a year or two of government benefits, where do you get the money to pay for those benefits in the succeeding years? Also, once we go down the path of extremely high taxes on upper income people, we are telling them that no matter how much you work, or invest, or invent, the government will not allow you to become rich. With that situation, why would they work hard, invest in new technology, risk what money they have left by starting new businesses? The Bill Gates of the future would come from countries that encourage people to try to become rich. Try to think of some great innovation that came from the socialist countries of eastern Europe. Ask yourself why The USSR went bankrupt and why China has only in the past decade of so , become a major economic power.

MaricopaKenUser is Offline

Posts:144


08/27/2008 7:56 PM Alert 
Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the Congress for whom you hold responsible for the out of control spending been in the hands of the Republican Party since 1994? Didn't Newt lead the one issue election revolution of the Jerry Falwell moral majority? So wasn't it they who rubber stamped the absurd spending and the budget overrides that this ruthless administration has bought upon our nation? Hasn't John McCain been party to this for the last 26 years?
hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:1011


08/27/2008 8:09 PM Alert 

Posted By MaricopaKen on 08/27/2008 7:56 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the Congress for whom you hold responsible for the out of control spending been in the hands of the Republican Party since 1994? Didn't Newt lead the one issue election revolution of the Jerry Falwell moral majority? So wasn't it they who rubber stamped the absurd spending and the budget overrides that this ruthless administration has bought upon our nation? Hasn't John McCain been party to this for the last 26 years?

 

 

Per your request, consider yourself corrected. I assume that you did not read my second paragraph or did not believe me. For the past two years the Democrats have been in control of both houses of Congress.If you doubt me - google Democrats win control of Congress. Once you have verified the facts, you may then want to ask yourself why they have not balanced the budget. As I said, both parties now play the same game - give the people goodies that they don't have to pay for.So, to use your words, for the past two years it has been the Democrats who have "rubber stamped the absurd spending and budget overrides of this ruthless administration."Democrats - isn't that Obama's party?

As a side note- It is not me that states that Congress is responsible for spending , it's the Constitution of the US. Again, if you doubt me, look up article 1 section 8 for yourself.

 

MaricopaKenUser is Offline

Posts:144


08/27/2008 9:26 PM Alert 
You say that the Democrats won control of the House in 2006. So what! You know very well that the American public elected the Democrats to the House because the Republican Congress of sixteen years had been spending recklessly! And isn't it true that any action that the Democrats in the House sent to the Senate was killed by the strict Republican partisan votes? Explain to me how the House can correct the wrongs but when you don't have support of the Republicans in the Senate? You know they controlled every measure and killed anything the Dems try to do for this country. And didn't the President threaten to veto anything the House did? One body of Congress can't do it without Bi-partisan support can they? Please explain to me how the will of the American people could be done when the Senate and or the President threaten to kill any kind of control? I can't wait for the Republicans to give up the check book! $4.50 gasoline, $5.00 diesel, prescription drugs unaffordable, houses worth less than the mortgages, record profits for Exxon, 52 million working Americans without health care, nine trillion dollar deficit, record High School dropout and teen pregnancy rates... and that's the short list! What a cluster ----!
asugrlUser is Offline

Posts:723

08/27/2008 11:20 PM Alert 
Wow...and I assume you think all will be right with the world if a Democrat gets elected? Again, Congress has been in DEMOCRAT hands for the last few years, and it still is. What have they done to fix our situation? BTW, Democrats did not get elected to Congress because Republicans screwed up for 16 years, as you suggest. If that were the case, you might wonder how they stayed in office that long. And your list regarding high gas prices, rx prices, etc. is not even true for everyone, nor does it necessarily affect everyone. Stop listening to the media and suggesting everything is worse than it is!
PepperdogUser is Offline

Posts:233


08/28/2008 12:35 AM Alert 
Maricopa Ken?

You're the guy who was whining in the tribune about seniors voting for McCain and Kyle.

Wasn't the your main complaint the fact that these 2 haven't done enough for your personal economic situation? That they were against SPENDING bills?? Guess it is ok for you if the governemnt spends money as long as they are spending it on you.....You are proving the very situation you decry....democrats wanting governemnt hand outs.....It's really pretty funny.

Spend spend spend as long as it's on me......just like the spoiled child.

Anyone who advocates a "one" world government, a "one" social order, or a "one" enviroment is a communist trying to take away your freedoms. Nature celebrates diversity!
MaricopaKenUser is Offline

Posts:144


08/28/2008 7:04 AM Alert 

Hey Pepperdog,
Thanks for your questions! No I am not the same person but I did read the letter. The point I came away with regarding our Republican Senators is that they don't vote for the public's well being. For example, just a couple of weeks ago Jon Kyl voted against mandatory testing for lead in toys imported from China. He was one of only three Senators that voted no to testing. In the House which is controlled by Democrats, they voted 417 in favor of testing for lead to 1! Why didn't our Senator vote to protect our children??? I don't get it!
As for wanting government handouts, the Republicans gave billions to Dick Cheney's previous employer, Haliburton, in no bid contracts. The problem with that as I see it is the American people passed those billions out to a company that has been based here in America but has recently decided that Dubai is a better place to operate their business. Where's the patriotism? Now Haliburton will be moving it's corporate operations from our shores with our tax dollars. Are you okay with that? I would prefer to see a company that experiences windfall profits from the U.S.Treasury keep the money here. When we spend billions on say building infrastructure here in America or Arizona or Maricopa where it is sorely needed, the workers on those projects take their paychecks and cash them at our local banks and spend the money at Fry's or Bashas or Teakwoods or Native. They attend our churches and donate to their causes, usually spent in the best interest of our community. I don't see where spending tax dollars on widening the 347 or building a railroad crossing is a hand out. Those men and women working out there on infrastructure spend the money they earn here and pay taxes. We who live here benefit from the new wide road. How great it would be if we had a bridge or tunnel for the train crossing! No more whistles! They way the Republicans have been doing it with no bid contracts has allowed our tax dollars to leave the country leaving us deeply in debt benefiting none of us except the corporate officers of those corporations.

Cactus RobUser is Offline

Posts:1203


08/28/2008 9:14 AM Alert 

Ken ... You haven't seen anything yet.  Just wait until Obama begins his redistribution of wealth plans (tax the rich and give to the poor) if you want to see the rich fleeing to greener pastures.  

Russia has the same system in place already and it is estimated that at least 300,000 of that nation's wealthiest have fled the country and taken their money, and the jobs it created, with them.      

hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:1011


08/28/2008 10:39 AM Alert 
Posted By MaricopaKen on 08/27/2008 9:26 PM
You say that the Democrats won control of the House in 2006. So what! You know very well that the American public elected the Democrats to the House because the Republican Congress of sixteen years had been spending recklessly! And isn't it true that any action that the Democrats in the House sent to the Senate was killed by the strict Republican partisan votes? Explain to me how the House can correct the wrongs but when you don't have support of the Republicans in the Senate? You know they controlled every measure and killed anything the Dems try to do for this country. And didn't the President threaten to veto anything the House did? One body of Congress can't do it without Bi-partisan support can they? Please explain to me how the will of the American people could be done when the Senate and or the President threaten to kill any kind of control? I can't wait for the Republicans to give up the check book! $4.50 gasoline, $5.00 diesel, prescription drugs unaffordable, houses worth less than the mortgages, record profits for Exxon, 52 million working Americans without health care, nine trillion dollar deficit, record High School dropout and teen pregnancy rates... and that's the short list! What a cluster ----!

 

Wow! Where do I start. I have noticed in your posts that you habitually make statements that are not supported by facts, and then when someone provides facts that disprove your statements, you just change the subject and make a new set of statements not supported by the facts. For your information, the Democrats control both houses of Congress, not just the House.Please enlighten us as to how the Republicans who do not run the Senate are able to, in your words, "control every measure". As for your statement about Republicans voting in a partisan manner -oh this is just too easy - , check the Congressional Quarterly (a magazine that tracks the votes of all members of Congress) you will find that the most loyal and partisan party member in the Senate, is Obama. he has a record of voting as a loyal Democrat 97% of the time. So, if you think that being partisan is a bad thing, then I am sure that you will not be supporting Obama. The most amusing part of your rant was when you blamed Republicans for the high rate of teen pregnancy. Those darn Republicans just can not keep in in their pants.

On another note -your logic  is so convoluted that it amazes me. On the one hand you say that the Dems can get nothing done in Congress because of the lack of bi-partisan support from Reps.  Then, on the other hand , you complain about all of the bad things Reps did when they had control of Congress. How did they do all those bad things without the bi-partisan support of Dems? You seem to think that Dems need bi-partisan support to get anything done but Reps do not. Your logic, or lack of the same is confusing and a bit amusing./quote]

kenUser is Offline

Posts:548


08/28/2008 3:56 PM Alert 
The reason the deficit is so high is because the Republicans didn't have time to argue with the Democrats about their spending. They had a war that needed funding and didn't want to waist precious time squabbling with a bunch of preschoolers. So instead of cutting spending to afford the war, they just spent the money anyway and let the deficit get out of control. In hind sight it wasn't the greatest decision, but at least they did what had to be done.. if it was up to the Dems we'd be at best sitting knee deep in failure, at worst we'd all be living in the United States of Al Qaeda.

"Knowledge is often mistaken for intelligence. This is like mistaking a cup of milk for a cow." -- Unknown
klix76User is Offline

Posts:95

08/28/2008 4:54 PM Alert 
Doesn't it strike us as odd in that the government can mis manage money and spend what they don't have and all the while telling us there are different reasons for a poor economy? To add since the dems took over the economy has declined. Obama is "tax and spend" as well as a Marxist.
DweezilUser is Offline

Posts:73

08/28/2008 5:02 PM Alert 
You may want to change the title of this thread to.....

This is the first excuse for Obamas failure if elected.

PepperdogUser is Offline

Posts:233


08/28/2008 6:44 PM Alert 
yeah you're that same guy Ken. I can tell because you really don't care about fiscal responsibility at all, as long as it meets YOUR agenda. If you were to state that you were against spending then you may have a point. You're not. YOu want to tax and spend on social programs that have failures for 30 plus years and argue in favor of them using guilt and beattitudes that are meaningless.

Anyone who advocates a "one" world government, a "one" social order, or a "one" enviroment is a communist trying to take away your freedoms. Nature celebrates diversity!
JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:3446


08/29/2008 7:16 AM Alert 
10 trillion dollars doesn't sound like fiscal responsibility to me.........both sides are to blame.........actually fat, lazy Americans who spend more than they make and buy huge homes that they cannot afford are to blame as well........

"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black
ProtofishUser is Offline

Posts:252


08/29/2008 7:51 AM Alert 

Maybe we can place a special tax on oil companies to help pay off the worlds debt.

MaricopaKenUser is Offline

Posts:144


08/29/2008 9:08 AM Alert 

Hey Peperdog! So let's clarify. From what I am reading, you think that spending money on infrastructure here in America such as replacing failing bridges, weak levees not only in New Orleans but Sacremento, Iowa, Illinois, placing high speed Internet in all public schools, upgrading police and sheriff departments with better communication systems that will work ( unlike Giuliani in NYC 9/11) and such are Marxist Social programs? Do you really support all the 100's of billions in foreign aid will make America safer and stronger?

JasonYUser is Offline

Posts:3446


08/29/2008 9:22 AM Alert 
Posted By MaricopaKen on 08/29/2008 9:08 AM

Hey Peperdog! So let's clarify. From what I am reading, you think that spending money on infrastructure here in America such as replacing failing bridges, weak levees not only in New Orleans but Sacremento, Iowa, Illinois, placing high speed Internet in all public schools, upgrading police and sheriff departments with better communication systems that will work ( unlike Giuliani in NYC 9/11) and such are Marxist Social programs? Do you really support all the 100's of billions in foreign aid will make America safer and stronger?

Exactly...........I would rather give a million dollars to a homeless American vet on the streets than send that money to rebuild a house that a future terrorist is going to live in..........


"My favorite health club is the International House of Pancakes" -- Lewis Black
camerualUser is Offline

Posts:29

08/29/2008 1:24 PM Alert 
Interesting comment JasonY~ so you think that investing in American infrastructure is supporting terrorists? So explain to me again why we shouldn't reinforce weak levees, failing bridges, etc.? I'm trying to decide if I'm voting Republican or Democrat.
cavemanUser is Offline

Posts:1274


08/30/2008 11:11 AM Alert 
Posted By Cactus Rob on 08/28/2008 9:14 AM

Ken ... You haven't seen anything yet.  Just wait until Obama begins his redistribution of wealth plans (tax the rich and give to the poor) if you want to see the rich fleeing to greener pastures. 

I have been under the Bush redistribution of wealth plan for the past 8 years and the rich keep getting richer while the economy is in the crapper. Record high national debt thank you Mr Bush.

 

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