twostep23
Posts:1741
 | | 07/22/2007 5:09 PM |
 Alert | What happened there that would effect their ability to do their job? There is nothing that anyone stating about anyone has been drunk on the job or even drinking on the job. Why would that even come into question.
We're all entitled to have a personal life after work. The only reason that this is being brought out is because they are in a public service environment. Sure they are held to a higher standard but they are still people that are entitled to have lives. We all do crazy things with liquid courage no matter who you are.
Did they exhibit a lack of control? You bet they did. But I think that there is more to the story that hasn't come out yet.
| |
Senior Member
Posts: 4625
Joined: Feb 2006 | |
|
|
|
ken
Posts:548
| | 07/22/2007 5:13 PM |
Alert | Posted By twostep23 on 07/22/2007 5:09 PM
Did they exhibit a lack of control? You bet they did. But I think that there is more to the story that hasn't come out yet.
If there is somehow more to the story that would justify this behavior than I will stand corrected, but I doubt there is anything that could be added to this to make it somehow sound better. | |
"Knowledge is often mistaken for intelligence. This is like mistaking a cup of milk for a cow." -- Unknown | |
|
|
|
Lees2
Posts:586
| | 07/22/2007 5:21 PM |
Alert | | Nothing justifies this behavior. However, take into account that police and fire have a horrifically stressful job and thus sometimes may drink off duty in an effort to try to relieve some of that stress. The ONLY thing you can do at this point is to accept responsibility and apologize. | |
Previous Post Count: 2731
Member Since: April 22, 2005 at 3:24 p.m. | |
|
|
|
Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 5:40 PM |
Alert | Posted By twostep23 on 07/22/2007 5:09 PM
What happened there that would effect their ability to do their job?
They broke their agreement with the city and the public. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
|
|
|
twostep23
Posts:1741
| | 07/22/2007 5:43 PM |
Alert | | Maybe but that doesn't effect their ability to do their job. | |
Senior Member
Posts: 4625
Joined: Feb 2006 | |
|
|
|
85239
Posts:0
| | 07/22/2007 5:43 PM |
Alert | I believe nothing short of a press conference would be appropriate for this type of problem. This involves members of the FDM at the very high levels. This is not something that can be explained away in a press release or a memo. The Mayor, Fire Chief and Union President should all be there to field questions regarding this issue so there is no chance of an interpretation error. All press releases and memos do is make you wonder what they didn't put in it. This has to be done on a public stage.
With everything else that is going on, I see this as a particularly good time for our Mayor to stand before the people and the press and explain what they are doing from an investigative standpoint, what type of repercussions, if found guilty, the involved staff will have and how they are going to proceed in light of this event for both the firefighters and the leadership in the department.
I very much want the TRUTH to be told to the citizens of our city. I want the TRUTH to be the basis for making my opinions on this and I want the TRUTH the be the standard our community uses as the basis for any prosecution or administrative action that takes place.
| | | |
|
|
 |
nhms
Posts:91
| | 07/22/2007 5:47 PM |
Alert | Were these guys drinking while in uniform (even if it's the FD Maricopa T-Shirts), or in street clothes? If in uniform, even if off-duty, you're a representative of the city's fire department. I understand these guys take on a stressful job and like to hang out after work. If you're going to go out and drink, take the 20 seconds or so and change into street clothes.
If in uniform, I hope the mayor doesn't turn a blind eye come Monday morning. | |
** If I'm not authorized to post a reply, does that mean I'm banned from 85239.com? ** | |
|
|
|
livinginthecopasux
Posts:944
| | 07/22/2007 5:48 PM |
Alert | | you cant handle the TRUTH! | |
BUSTED! | |
|
|
|
85239
Posts:0
| |
|
JustaDude
Posts:23
| | 07/22/2007 6:36 PM |
Alert | | let's look at this from another angle: what if the finance department (or really any city department) staff went into Ramsey's and caused havoc like this? If a non-fire employee from the city decked some guy, would they be terminated? It will be interesting to see how this situation evolves into a giant double standard. It should also solidfy the theory about the good ole boy network in this town. Fact is, the city needs to come down swift and severe. They have one black eye already and don't need two. Anything less is not acceptable. Will the new regime sweep this under the rug? Will they take a stand? Considering how the city manages to screw up just about everything they do, this issue will probably get screwed up too. | | | |
|
|
|
stinkerbell2
Posts:0
| | 07/22/2007 6:36 PM |
Alert | "In such a situation, Kelleher said the Fire District’s policy was “putting everyone on administrative leave and then looking into it.”"
Does this mean we wont have a Fire Dept for awhile???? And isnt are Fire Dept new??? WTH???? Where did these firemen come from?...the 7th grade???
These guys are up on a higher level, along with policemen and government officials-Their conduct is reflected in our city whether you agree or not! This is NO way for an adult to behave regardless of their job title BUT if you are a city/state employee you better not act a fool!!! I personally am not surprised or shocked- these guys probibly think they are untouchable and heros but when you act like an idiot then expect the backlash! And yes I agree there are always 2 sies to a story...BUT your a Fire fighter dont take the title literal!!! just my .02!
Where's the Judge?...
| | | |
|
|
|
Karma
Posts:80
| | 07/22/2007 7:03 PM |
Alert | My question to the PCSO...Why weren't the fire fighters tazered??? Why was the victim tazered? If I am reading the article correctly this wasn't even the original patrom that the fight started with, he was sent to another restraunt.
IF this was any ordinary group of men they would have all been arrested and booked and taken to Florence, why were these men treated different.
Other cities must look at us like one big disfunctional family. This is now the second large incident involving city governent in less than 2 weeks...... | | | |
|
|
|
Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 7:10 PM |
Alert | Posted By twostep23 on 07/22/2007 5:43 PM
Maybe but that doesn't effect their ability to do their job.
This is a trust issue now too. How can they be trusted to do their jobs when they broke several laws and agreements?
The PCSO's conduct should be brought into question too for tasering the victim. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
|
|
|
twostep23
Posts:1741
| | 07/22/2007 7:15 PM |
Alert | I would trust them.....I don't see any indication that they would act like that while on duty.
It isn't my place to judge. They will have to answer in due time. | |
Senior Member
Posts: 4625
Joined: Feb 2006 | |
|
|
|
Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 7:17 PM |
Alert | Posted By twostep23 on 07/22/2007 7:15 PM
I would trust them.....I don't see any indication that they would act like that while on duty.
So the fact that they broke the law and their code of conduct doesn't give you at least a little doubt that they might act poorly on duty? Wow... | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
|
|
|
twostep23
Posts:1741
| | 07/22/2007 7:26 PM |
Alert | NO one is perfect and we all can and do make mistakes. Can anyone prove that this or anything else like this has happened on duty?
You've sped down 347 therefore breaking the law guess that there is a chance that you might act poorly while at work also. | |
Senior Member
Posts: 4625
Joined: Feb 2006 | |
|
|
|
Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 7:29 PM |
Alert | Posted By twostep23 on 07/22/2007 7:26 PM
NO one is perfect and we all can and do make mistakes. Can anyone prove that this or anything else like this has happened on duty?
You've sped down 347 therefore breaking the law guess that there is a chance that you might act poorly while at work also.
Again, this isn't about them being people, or them making a minor mistake or a relatively minor offense like speeding. They were out looking for a fight, they broke several laws that people routinely get convicted of misdemeanors and they broke their employment agreement. My employment agreement says nothing about speeding. If I were a Dominos employee and I was caught going 70 MPH down Smith-Enke, I could expect to be fired. This was not a minor mistake. This would be on the level of an employee at the office being drunk and punching out their customer. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
|
|
|
TC.
Posts:0
| | 07/22/2007 7:35 PM |
Alert | Wow! Yesterday, I read on here about Ramsey not cutting off the drunks and now this today. I have never been there to eat or drink, but these are sure some stories! I guess it does get pretty wild there. Hopefully, not while there are children present. It sounds like maybe children shouldn't be allowed in this place after 8:00 pm.
This is crazy!!!!!
I bet Nez will come forward with the video tape of all this. I'm sure he didn't miss this!!!!
Nez...please play it here first! Please....Please!!!! | | | |
|
|
|
jennse29
Posts:167
| | 07/22/2007 7:36 PM |
Alert | Your right, no one is perfect and we all make mistakes.....but you have to be held accountable for what you do.
Has this happened more than once? since the forum title is "seems to be a regular thing"
| | | |
|
|
|
twostep23
Posts:1741
| | 07/22/2007 7:37 PM |
Alert | A mistake is a mistake and they will have to answer for their mistake regardless of being major or minor.
I've never said that they didn't make a mistake all I'm saying is that it doesn't mean that they can not do their job or that they perform their jobs in any less of capability because they've made a mistake. | |
Senior Member
Posts: 4625
Joined: Feb 2006 | |
|
|
|