Shogun
Posts:332
 | | 07/22/2007 3:50 PM |
 Alert | | Rules of conduct pretty cut and dry. | | | |
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TheShermanator
Posts:277
| | 07/22/2007 4:11 PM |
Alert | I can't believe I missed all the fun and excitement.
 I'm kidding!
I think when you are not working, as long as you are not engaged in illegal activity, your business is your business. However, it is pretty clear they ave a code of conduct to adhere to, so I hope something more than a 'slap on the wrist' will happen.
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Formerly known as 'greytxracers'
"My greyhound is smarter than your honor student"
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pigsrule
Posts:115
| | 07/22/2007 4:11 PM |
Alert | First off the policies that were quoted were null and void they are now city employees as of July 1. I am heavily involved in the community and can tell you with conviction that there is two sides to this story. Please try to take that into consideration before jumping on the bandwagon. More details will come out. This thread was started saying about drunk firefighters, well is it not the establishments duty to determine that and cut any patron off that they feel is drunk. I know that Firefighters are held to a higher standard but they are still human and will make mistakes. Also the claim in the paper that an innocent bystander was hit doesn't really fly with me. If that were the case then there would have certainly been a claim filed. I say that it is very premature to jump to any conclusions.
And Jason are you serious just because someone would go out on their day off and drink you would question if they are going to work drunk. That just shows complete ignorance. Do you think that they are the only proffessionals that drink on their off days? | | | |
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06woman
Posts:356
| | 07/22/2007 4:16 PM |
Alert | These firefighters made the choice to continue to fight and argue instead of walking away. It's one thing to make the mistake of getting upset with someone when you've had too much to drink, but considering that they are representing our city's fire dept whether on or off duty, they should have backed off when they were first asked to do so. Apparently, it was known that this group of people were firefighters for MFD, so therefore, no anonymity. It is a disgrace and a discredit to our fire department. Also, for Ashton to lie about his involvement was deplorable.
I also didn't care for the statement by the Union President about defending these guys zealously. What for? The only defense a Union President should be there for is in defense of the firefighters' rights under their contract. Not their right to start fights, lie about it, and make our entire city's fire department look like crap. | |
"Happiness is a journey...not a destination."
"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about." -
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
This is my son and a Lake Erie sunset. July 8,2007
Senior Member
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anewman
Posts:671
| | 07/22/2007 4:20 PM |
Alert | There are always two sides to the story but according to the report the firefighters had plenty of time to calm themselves down make good judgement. The fact that so many were involved and yet someone got punched after the original "flirtatous" patron left- shows this group had little self control.
They- like any other city/government paid employee is held to a higher standard because even if they are off duty they are still a representative of the city/ government they work for. These guys represent all firefighters and this city whether they like it or not.
Some people may want to give them the benefit of the doubt but they now they were in the wrong- if they do not own up for it, provide a formal apology to Ramsey's and the community then they are not fit to hod those positions. | |
"The jouney of life is as much in oneself' as the roads one travels"
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85239
Posts:0
| | 07/22/2007 4:22 PM |
Alert | "First off the policies that were quoted were null and void they are now city employees as of July 1."
The Fire Department became a city department on that day, but they also retained the operational and procedural guidelines that had been implemented by the Fire District. The only change to the way the department operated was the governing body and the documents that apply to that governing body. The Rules of Conduct are an operational document and would transfer in the case of a switch of government for the department. | | | |
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ken
Posts:548
| | 07/22/2007 4:40 PM |
Alert | | Why are so many giving them a pass on this? This behavior was way out of line and should be dealt with promptly by the city. If this were a group of Police Officers everyone would be up in arms about corrupt police. For whatever reason everyone seems to be acting like this kind of behavior is to be expected of firefighters. | |
"Knowledge is often mistaken for intelligence. This is like mistaking a cup of milk for a cow." -- Unknown | |
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-Percival-
Posts:33
| | 07/22/2007 4:41 PM |
Alert | | If it would have been 10 individuals that didn't happen to be city employees, this would be considered "gang activity". I sure hope something is done to at least bring the guy who threw a punch to justice. | | | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 4:47 PM |
Alert | Posted By pigsrule on 07/22/2007 4:11 PM
And Jason are you serious just because someone would go out on their day off and drink you would question if they are going to work drunk. That just shows complete ignorance. Do you think that they are the only proffessionals that drink on their off days?
They didn't merely drink, they were drunk, to the point where one hit an innocent bystander and the rest showed major lapses in judgement. They didn't do their best to calm the situation, they fueled it. Their behavior showed extreme lack of restraint. Is that something you want in a firefighter or police officer, etc? Firefighters and police officers should be level-headed and not prone to causing major disturbances. From what was stated in the article, they broke several laws and codes of firefighter conduct. How much more sides to the story can there be to excuse this behavior? Answer: none. | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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Lees2
Posts:586
| | 07/22/2007 4:48 PM |
Alert | "Also the claim in the paper that an innocent bystander was hit doesn't really fly with me. If that were the case then there would have certainly been a claim filed. I say that it is very premature to jump to any conclusions."
I heard from people who were there that this actually did happen.
I think we do hold public officials and police and fire to a higher standard. But we all screw up, we are all human. Be a man and admit when you are wrong and apologize to everyone involved, certainly don't lie about it.
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Previous Post Count: 2731
Member Since: April 22, 2005 at 3:24 p.m. | |
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livinginthecopasux
Posts:944
| | 07/22/2007 4:52 PM |
Alert | | i was there...tasers are f'in awesome. | |
BUSTED! | |
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06woman
Posts:356
| | 07/22/2007 4:53 PM |
Alert | I think that lying about involvement should not go unpunished as well. That's dishonesty and not taking responsibility for one's own actions. If he's not going to take responsibility for the mistake, then lie about it, how can we trust that this guy is going to conduct himself on the job honestly?
I don't agree with Jason's statement either. I drink off the job but would never consider going to work after even a sip. That's just ludicrous . | |
"Happiness is a journey...not a destination."
"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about." -
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
This is my son and a Lake Erie sunset. July 8,2007
Senior Member
Posts: 2268
Joined: May 2006 | |
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ken
Posts:548
| | 07/22/2007 4:53 PM |
Alert | | The fact they were drinking should not excuse the behavior at all. My guess is, this not the first time they've ever experienced what alcohol can do to their behavior. So if they knew at all that they had a tendency to act like this when they drink then they should have never done so in such a public setting. | |
"Knowledge is often mistaken for intelligence. This is like mistaking a cup of milk for a cow." -- Unknown | |
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06woman
Posts:356
| | 07/22/2007 4:57 PM |
Alert | | Jason, a person doesn't have to be "completely wasted" to make an error in judgment or to start or continue a fight. Some people all they need is just a little and it impairs their judgment and ability to reason. No where in that article does it say they were completely wasted. I wasn't there...is there anyone here that can attest to the fact that they were completely wasted? Before making statements like that, I would be sure of the actual facts on that one. Their conduct was certainly inexcusable but I wouldn't assume something that hasn't been stated as a fact about the situation either. | |
"Happiness is a journey...not a destination."
"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about." -
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
This is my son and a Lake Erie sunset. July 8,2007
Senior Member
Posts: 2268
Joined: May 2006 | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 4:58 PM |
Alert | Posted By 06woman on 07/22/2007 4:53 PM
I don't agree with Jason's statement either. I drink off the job but would never consider going to work after even a sip. That's just ludicrous .
It's the extreme lack of good judgment here that should make us question whether or not they would go on the job drunk. My statement wasn't ludicrous. How far do they have to go before we question their on-job integrity? | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 07/22/2007 5:00 PM |
Alert | Posted By 06woman on 07/22/2007 4:57 PM
Jason, a person doesn't have to be "completely wasted" to make an error in judgment or to start or continue a fight. Some people all they need is just a little and it impairs their judgment and ability to reason. No where in that article does it say they were completely wasted. I wasn't there...is there anyone here that can attest to the fact that they were completely wasted? Before making statements like that, I would be sure of the actual facts on that one. Their conduct was certainly inexcusable but I wouldn't assume something that hasn't been stated as a fact about the situation either.
Go ahead, pick on my words and miss the point.  | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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ken
Posts:548
| | 07/22/2007 5:03 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 07/22/2007 4:58 PM
It's the extreme lack of good judgment here that should make us question whether or not they would go on the job drunk. My statement wasn't ludicrous. How far do they have to go before we question their on-job integrity?
I agree with Jason on this. Anyone who gets so wasted that they act like this should at least be watched closely on the job. And if they weren't wasted than they obviously have some anger control issues which are probably apparent when they AREN'T drunk. | |
"Knowledge is often mistaken for intelligence. This is like mistaking a cup of milk for a cow." -- Unknown | |
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livinginthecopasux
Posts:944
| | 07/22/2007 5:04 PM |
Alert | | ok, this is one thing i noticed on friday night. The officer who was doing the random checks that night was like 10 feet away when the dude got punched, as in, the firefighter definatley saw him. Also, how come the cop was on his cell phone calling it in and not the radio? things that make you go hurmmmmmmmm. | |
BUSTED! | |
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06woman
Posts:356
| | 07/22/2007 5:05 PM |
Alert | The dishonesty and the conduct in public would make me question their integrity on the job, but I wouldn't go as far as to start questioning drinking on the job.
I've made major errors in judgment because I had been drinking. However, it doesn't mean that I'm going to make the major error in judgment to report to work under the influence. I however, do not hold a position in the public sector nor do I hold a position that is held to the same standards in public as a firefighter. When someone takes a position like that it's understood that they are held to higher code of ETHICS not just conduct.
To me, it's common sense, but it's not to everyone. | |
"Happiness is a journey...not a destination."
"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about." -
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
This is my son and a Lake Erie sunset. July 8,2007
Senior Member
Posts: 2268
Joined: May 2006 | |
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06woman
Posts:356
| | 07/22/2007 5:08 PM |
Alert | | At the very least, these firefighters should be on probation. | |
"Happiness is a journey...not a destination."
"The highest form of ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about." -
Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
This is my son and a Lake Erie sunset. July 8,2007
Senior Member
Posts: 2268
Joined: May 2006 | |
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