 |
Business Directory |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Coupons |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Classifieds |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
| | Author | Messages | |
azsundevil
Posts:21


 | | 07/22/2007 12:25 PM |
Alert | Not sure if any of you were at Ramsey's on Friday night, but I was and I'm kind of embarrassed to see how some of our city firefighters behave. A few of them were drunk and picking fights with people. One them even sucker punched a guy and ran off to his car. You would think since they are representatives of the Maricopa Fire Dept they would display some dignity, self control, respect and honor while not on duty. Not these drunken fools they didn't care. We hold our police, teachers and other city officials to a higher standard why is it ok for these guys to act drunken idiots while not on duty? This type of behavior needs to stop or bring some real firefighters in who have some respect for the city which they serve and live in. It's just a hand full of them and this seems to be pretty a regular routine for them. We have lots of good apples, but the bad ones are ruining the whole batch. When you are in the public eye perception is everything. Grow up! Kids look up to you, so start acting like role models instead of spoiled babies. This type of behavior should not be tolerated. Attitude reflects leadership. it's a captains job to maintain his staff, so I just suggest you start doing it. | | | |
| | chaotic
Posts:608


 | | 07/22/2007 2:00 PM |
Alert | Should've turned the hose on them!   | | Huh? CG? | |
|
| | ChiTownChick
Posts:425


 | | 07/22/2007 2:32 PM |
Alert | Ok here it goes
I think what people do on there own time is their own business. As long as they are not drunk and fighting during putting out fires I really don't care. Sorry it is just the way I feel. We ALL have our days.
 | | ChiTownChick Senior Member Posts: 5241 Joined: Jul 2005 "Woke Up This Morning With A Wine Glass In My Hand " | |
|
| | bstoneaz
Posts:404


 | | 07/22/2007 2:35 PM |
Alert | | Are firefighters like cops in the sense they are pretty much always on duty? If that is so I bet it's against policy for them to be drunk. | | Just the good ol' boys, Never meanin' no harm, Beats all you've ever saw, been in trouble with the law since the day they was born.
Straight'nin' the curve, Flat'nin' the hills. Someday the moutain might get 'em, but the law never will.
Makin' their way, The only way they know how, That's just a little bit more than the law will allow.
Just good ol' boys, Wouldn't change if they could, Fightin' the system like a true modern day Robin Hood. | |
|
| | azsundevil
Posts:21


 | | 07/22/2007 2:40 PM |
Alert | | It's okay to serve the public act like a fool and sucker punch people? Are you kidding me? Wow seek some help if you think that is okay. It's the public's business. | | | |
|
| | 85239
Posts:0

 | | 07/22/2007 2:57 PM |
Alert | From the Monitor today:
Around midnight on Friday, July 20, Maricopa's Fire Department Deputy Chief Dan Ashton, Capt. Nick Lang, Firefighter Cody Ashton and Firefighter Chris Herzog and six other firefighters, who were not identified, were involved in a verbal exchange at Ramsey's American Grill that resulted in violence and response from eight PCSO deputies, according to the restaurant's owner, Ramsey Harkness. It was reportedly a patron flirting with Cody Ashton's fiancé that started the incident and prompted the Ashton party to make threats towards the patron. Harkness related that he had to stand between the 10 firefighters and the patron, who Harkness did not know by name, and talk for nearly 45 minutes to prevent a fight. He finally asked the party of three, which included the flirtatious patron, to leave and go to one of his competitors, Arena Sports Grill, thinking that would take care of the situation, which was continuing to escalate.
Harkness said, during an interview Saturday night, that following the removal of one side of the conflict, the conduct of the remaining group of firefighters was not quelled, but instead got worse.
Harkness reported that for an undetermined reason, Herzog then punched an uninvolved bystander apparently at random.
A PSCO deputy was in the process of a random bar check at the time and had to use his taser to restrain those involved in the fight, until backup could be called. The party that was injured did not press charges and no one was arrested.
Harkness says he was distressed at the incident in general, but very upset that the firefighters in attendance had not attempted to stop the fight, but instead seemed to be egging on Dan Ashton, especially Lang. At one point, according to Harkness, Ashton threatened the life of the man who flirted with his future daughter-in-law.
"You know I understand that firefighters, police officers and sports heroes are sometimes held up to a higher standard and that causes stress," Harkness explained. "But I'm not asking that these guys be held to a higher standard - just the same standard. I had 80 patrons who had to witness this thing and some commented that they felt they would have been treated differently under the same circumstances."
"I could lose my liquor license if this stuff continues. I want a formal apology from the city and Chief Kelleher, because an apology from Ashton at this point means nothing. None of those guys are welcome here until I get one," Harkness said.
Harkness took Dan Ashton home himself and expressed his anger over the whole incident during the drive.
"He just laughed at me and said I should just be happy to have the hottest spot in Maricopa."
This incident follows Dan Ashton's demotion from Assistant Fire Chief to Deputy Fire Chief after protests from the firefighters union, local International Association of Fire Fighters #4561, regarding aggressive and inappropriate behaviors, punitive transfers and violations of Arizona Revised Statutes 23-1411, which reads:
"Public safety employee organizational rights; definition Public safety employees serving any city, town, county or fire district in this state have the right to join employee associations which comply with the laws of this state and have freedom to present proposals and testimony to the governing body of any city, town, county or fire district and their representatives. A person shall not be discharged, disciplined or discriminated against because of the exercise of these rights."
In mid-June, six members of the Fire Department Maricopa met with the President of the Arizona IAFF, President Tim Hill to discuss how to handle threats made by Ashton to local union President Richard Jackson after he met with then-City Manager Rick Buss to discuss matters of union concern.
Hill advised going to Chief William Kelleher, who then met with Jackson and others and immediately took steps to ensure the firefighters would have direct access in the future to himself in an attempt to squelch any further threats.
Union members and city personnel, who wish to remain anonymous, have confirmed that Jackson has filed a formal grievance with the city of Maricopa.
Chief Kelleher was reached the evening of July 21 for a comment and had not yet been informed of the incident.
"I hardily apologize for the behavior of members of the fire department. I will investigate and speak with Mr. Harkness myself and take measures to see that it never happens again."
Mayor Kelly Anderson was reached at 10 p.m. on Saturday night and had not heard about the incident either. He said this caught him unaware, but "I will meet with the Chief on Monday for a briefing on the situation."
Jackson had already been informed of the incident and responded, "I'm not aware of any formal charges. We are a professional fire department and we should conduct ourselves professionally. However, as union president, it's my duty and responsibility to defend all firefighters zealously regardless of charges and I will do so to the best of my ability."
Dan Ashton was contacted Sunday morning, July 22. After first saying he wasn't even there, then confirming that Harkness had driven him home, Ashton formally responded with "No comment."
Herzog and Lang could not be reached for comment.
PCSO was unable to provide any additional information prior to publication of this article.
See the July 27 issue of the Maricopa Monitor for an updated story.
| | | |
|
| | 85239
Posts:0

 | | 07/22/2007 3:04 PM |
Alert | | * | | | |
|
| | 85239
Posts:0

 | | 07/22/2007 3:10 PM |
Alert | The Fire Department Maricopa Rules of Conduct (Of particular note are the bolded items):
Every member of the Maricopa Fire District is expected to operate in a highly self disciplined manner and is responsible to regulate his/her own conduct in a positive manner, productive and mature way. Failure to do so may result in disciplinary action ranging from counseling to dismissal.
ALL MEMBERS SHALL:
1. Follow Operation Manuals and written directives of the Maricopa Fire District. 2. Use their training and capabilities to protect the public at all times, both on and off duty. 3. Work competently in their positions to cause all department programs to operate effectively. 4. Always conduct themselves to reflect credit on the Department. 5. Supervisor will manage in an effective, considerate manner/subordinates will follow instructions in a positive, cooperative manner. 6. Always conduct themselves in a manner that creates good order, inside the Department. 7. Keep themselves informed to do their jobs effectively. 8. Be concerned and protective of each member's welfare. 9. Operate safely and use good judgment. 10. Keep themselves physically fit. 11. Observe the work hours of their position. 12. Obey the law. 13. Be careful of Department equipment and property.
MEMBERS SHALL NOT:
1. Engage in any activity that is detrimental to the Department. 2. Engage in a conflict of interest to the Department or use their position with the Department for personal gain or influence. 3. Fight. 4. Abuse their sick leave. 5. Steal. 6. Use alcoholic beverages, debilitating drugs, or any substance which could impair their physical or mental capacities while on duty. 7. Engage in any sexual activity while on duty.
| | | |
|
| | LadyAmalthea
Posts:86


 | | 07/22/2007 3:12 PM |
Alert | Posted By ChiTownChick on 07/22/2007 2:32 PM Ok here it goes I think what people do on there own time is their own business. As long as they are not drunk and fighting during putting out fires I really don't care. Sorry it is just the way I feel. We ALL have our days. 
I agree. While I'm not for blokes causing trouble in public, let's face it - people under the influence of alcohol will sometimes do dumb things (like fight for a minor reason, or no reason at all). The code of conduct says not to be under the influence of alcohol when on duty. It doesn't say you can't have a drink - or more - when off duty. | | "Ain't nothin' but a barn dance, sugar. Ain't nothin' but a round de round" - Sara Tidwell and the High Tops | |
|
| | azsundevil
Posts:21


 | | 07/22/2007 3:17 PM |
Alert | ALL MEMBERS SHALL:
4. Always conduct themselves to reflect credit on the Department.
MEMBERS SHALL NOT:
1. Engage in any activity that is detrimental to the Department. 2. Engage in a conflict of interest to the Department or use their position with the Department for personal gain or influence. 3. Fight.
Wow common sense! Who would have thought? | | | |
|
| | Mike Honcho
Posts:12

 | | 07/22/2007 3:21 PM |
Alert | 85239 listed their rules of conduct.........Those of you giving them a pass should be ashamed of yourselves. Their behavior was disgusting to say the least.
And we wonder why this city is corrupt to the core! Keep letting them get away with crap like this and things will only get worse. Our city officials already feel they are above the law. These firefighters are a disgrace, simple as that.
"We ALL have our days".....That is a ridiculous statement. These firefighters agreed to a code of conduct when they joined. They broke many of these codes.
You might not have a firm grip on your life....That's one thing...But these men are supposed to represent the department...Their actions reflect poorly upon the department and I for one hope that they are held accountable for these actions. There's NO point in having rules or codes if they are not enforced! | | | |
|
| | LadyAmalthea
Posts:86


 | | 07/22/2007 3:27 PM |
Alert | | My main concern, displaced as it may seem, is for the lady in this situation. As for me, I want a guy who'll fight WITH me (meaning, if I'm in actual physical danger), than a guy who'd fight FOR me (like if some drunk bloke was just flirting with me). In my personal experience, guys like the latter are just as likely to end up blacking their chick's eyes as they are some other guys'. If a bloke's overly possessive like that, well, I'm afraid that poor gal might be heading into a heap of trouble after the sounds of the wedding bells fade into memory. | | "Ain't nothin' but a barn dance, sugar. Ain't nothin' but a round de round" - Sara Tidwell and the High Tops | |
|
| | LadyAmalthea
Posts:86


 | | 07/22/2007 3:30 PM |
Alert | Posted By azsundevil on 07/22/2007 3:17 PM ALL MEMBERS SHALL:
4. Always conduct themselves to reflect credit on the Department.
MEMBERS SHALL NOT:
1. Engage in any activity that is detrimental to the Department. 2. Engage in a conflict of interest to the Department or use their position with the Department for personal gain or influence. 3. Fight.
Wow common sense! Who would have thought?
3. Fight. But aren't they fire-FIGHTERS? LOL!!! Wow - irony. Who would have thought! | | "Ain't nothin' but a barn dance, sugar. Ain't nothin' but a round de round" - Sara Tidwell and the High Tops | |
|
| | azsundevil
Posts:21


 | | 07/22/2007 3:32 PM |
Alert | I can't believe Ashton was saying he wasn't even there, wow what else do these guys lie about? The city and the mayor need to take corrective action to resolve this matter.
"Dan Ashton was contacted Sunday morning, July 22. After first saying he wasn't even there, then confirming that Harkness had driven him home, Ashton formally responded with "No comment."
| | | |
|
| | Pet Social Worker
Posts:0

 | | 07/22/2007 3:33 PM |
Alert | When they're off duty, they're off duty. Just like when I was a Psychiatric Social Worker, if I wanted to have a few glasses of wine when I wasn't working or on call, then so be it. Being an a** in public while wearing my Core Behavioral Health Center shirts or starting a brawl in one of the local pubs in the neighborhood where we had group homes located would have been pretty stupid though.
I'm personally not worried about their response or quality of committment when they are on duty just because of this.
Their behavior was indeed unacceptable. | | | |
|
| | demonica
Posts:850


 | | 07/22/2007 3:37 PM |
Alert | | my first feeling on reading this thread was, "well, for christ's sake, these guys were off work, cut them some slack." having read the article about how bad the incident really was, and more particularly, reading the code of conduct for the fire department, i have totally changed my point of view. these guys made a choice to become firefighters, a choice i applaud and appreciate. i am certain that they were offered a chance to read the rules of conduct before signing on with the maricopa fire department. they made the choice to take the job, therefore agreeing to abide by these rules. they now have a responsibility to do so. i can understand cody ashton's behavior, while it is not right, it happens, someone hits on your fiancee, particularly if it is done in an inappropriate or vulgar manner, you're gonna get pissed off, and if you've had a few drinks, you may respond back in an inappropriate manner as well. this really does not concern me, it happens. what really upsets me is the behavior of the other 9 firefighters, particularly chief ashton and captain lang, being in supervisory positions. it was the responsibility of the other firefighters, both as firefighters and as friends, to attempt to diffuse the situation and bring it under control. instead they inflamed it. i think that is the major problem here. | | | |
|
| | CODEBLEU
Posts:307

 | | 07/22/2007 3:37 PM |
Alert | | When Alcohol is involved all bets are off, except the fact that people are going to act silly. Majority of these firefighters are probably pretty young. You Mix Booze with Young Guys full of testosterone and hot babes--- your going to have a few scuffles from time to time. Ramsey should not be making this bigger then it is. Sounds like he needs to spend some time in a New York City Bar full of Firefighters and Policeman. Additionally, maybe we should be asking Ramsey for an apology for serving too much booze to these guys and not having enough sense to defuse the situation in less then 45 minutes. thats a long time....sounds like he may have been part of the problem for not kicking the right people out of the bar in a timely manner.......Let it rest and lets hope the guy who got hit is OK. | | | |
|
| | LadyAmalthea
Posts:86


 | | 07/22/2007 3:40 PM |
Alert | I agree with PSW. 
Except, in Maricopa, there isn't exactly a plethora of local pubs where there are homes to which the MFD doesn't respond. I'd much rather have people get drunk and stupid where they're at least (theoretically) within walking distance of home, than in Ahwatukee or Scottsdale where they'd have to drive the 347 home.
Edited for poor grammar. | | "Ain't nothin' but a barn dance, sugar. Ain't nothin' but a round de round" - Sara Tidwell and the High Tops | |
|
| | Jason
Posts:3378


 | | 07/22/2007 3:40 PM |
Alert | I'm personally not worried about their response or quality of committment when they are on duty just because of this.
They showed extreme lack of restraint. If they act this way off-duty why are we to assume they would not act this way on-duty? If there is an emergency, how are we to know that they won't come on-duty completely drunk? There should have been an arrest. | | Joined: Jul 2005 | |
|
| | DesertDweller
Posts:2570


 | | 07/22/2007 3:43 PM |
Alert | Wow! That's unbelievable. Unless I saw the article, I don't think I would have believed it. It's too bad... there are some really good people involved in this mess. It sounds to me like there was a volatile mixture of testosterone and alcohol contributing to the incident. My guess is that there were a ton of regrets the next day.
Firefighters and police are, in fact, held to a higher standard. Each of them knows that when they take the job. What they do on their personal time is their own business, but what they do on their own time in public isn't always.
From the account that was published, Ramsey did an outstanding job of handling the incident and should be commended. He made a couple of attempts to diffuse the situation and went way above and beyond what was required. He could have just called 911 and been done with it. I don't know too many people who would get between 10 firefighters and someone they wanted a piece of. It's scary when the people who you would usually call for help are the ones that you need help with. | | Stupid should hurt!
Desert Dweller - Senior Member - Posts: 2982 - Joined: Feb 2006 | |
|
| |
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.6 |
|
|
|