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Subject: 4 dollars Georgie
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kenmoreguy72User is Offline

Posts:204

06/07/2008 12:28 AM Alert 
Also, before we bash the Dems again before acknowledging the brainlessness of Bush, can you answer me a couple of questions?
Wasn't it the Dems that finally raised CAFE standards?
Who was it that gave tax breaks to people buying SUV's?
ChimneyDuckUser is Offline

Posts:230

06/07/2008 10:06 AM Alert 
Stock market bubble . . . money goes to housing.
Housing bubble. . . money is going to commodities.
There is an oil bubble right now. The price will probably be pretty high for a while, but it will crash back to earth. In the mean time, it's an opportunity for alternative energy sources, whose prices aren't increasing, to get a foothold.

I'm banking my money on this one:
http://sapphireenergy.com/

http://www.maricopabikeclub.com - Join us for a bicycle ride.
hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:883


06/07/2008 1:13 PM Alert 

Back to facts. I am amazed that some still do not understand the basic economic law of supply and demand. The oil exporting nations  (OPEC) decide on production quotas (how much oil to produce) as long as they keep production down in a time of rising demand, prices will go up. This is basic economics, not rocket science. As comforting as it may be to the left to blame the big bad oil companies for the increase in prices, you give them too much credit. OPEC controls the production and thus the price of oil. In case you do not know, OPEC stands for Organization of Oil Exporting Countries not  oil exporting companies. It was many years ago that those countries took over the oil fields from the companies.

I am all in favor of developing alternatives to oil for energy, and billions are being spent to do just that. In the long term I am sure that new technologies will replace oil. In the short and middle term however, we will be dependent on oil. We missed the boat in the last few decades when we stopped building nuclear power plants which for the foreseeable future are the only alternative  to replace fossil fuel power plants, a number of countries produce 40% or more of their energy via nuclear power. Want to guess what the political philosophy is of the people who stunted nuclear power in the US?  The same people who opposed nuclear power, opposed drilling for oil and building refineries. Now they are shocked, shocked, that oil prices are up and want the oil companies to explain why. The hypocrisy is awe inspiring. Watching a liberal complain about oil prices is like watching a pig fly. you stand back in amazement. Not so much about the fact he is flying  but because he has the nerve to even try.

cavemanUser is Offline

Posts:1078


06/07/2008 1:37 PM Alert 
The single thing that has driven prices from 3 to 4 dollars a gallon more than anything else is the devaluation of the dollar. This has driven prices like mad in the past few years. Blame it on the liberals all you want but Bush's poor economic policies can be directly attributed to the rapid increase in oil price.
hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:883


06/07/2008 1:59 PM Alert 

Where do I start? Lets start with your assertion that Bush is responsible for oil prices due to his economic policies. You completely ignore the basic law of supply and demand, you also ignore the fact that the President enforces the laws, he does not make them. That is the job of Congress. If as you say this nations economic policies are responsible for the recent increase in oil prices, one must ask who set those policies.(by enacting laws). For the past two years that has been the job of a Democrat controlled Congress. SO if your premise was sound (which it is not) the President and Congress share responsibility.

As for a correlation between the drop in the value of the dollar and the rise in the price of oil, do the math. It will be simple, if what you say is accurate the dollar will have fallen the same percentage as oil prices rose. You will find that you are in error. In two years oil prices have doubled, if you were correct the dollar would have to be worth half as much as it was two years ago, with the corresponding effect that our other imports would double in price. Even you must admit that imports (other that oil) have not doubled in price. This is not to say that a lower value dollar does not have some effect , but it is a small one when compared to that old supply and demand. As a side note a weaker dollar has some advantages. It makes imports more expensive and our exports cheaper. As a result we buy less and sell more to other countries. Some countries even keep their currency artificially low for that very reason.

Some have allowed their visceral hate for Bush to dominate their thinking. Logic takes a back seat to hate. Why is it so hard for some to accept that the OPEC nations, having a raw material that is finite, and will last a few decades at best, want to cash in while they can. They will keep the price of oil as high as they can ,for as long as they can, to make as much money as they can.  

kenmoreguy72User is Offline

Posts:204

06/07/2008 2:01 PM Alert 
This thread has turned into a typical neo-con spin tactic. When you question the color of the sky, they will begin a discussion on the color of the grass.
Go back to the original post. We can sit and debate each fact that is contributing to the rising gas prices. And yes, some of the facts are oil companies that are making record profits, the devaluation of the dollar, etc... I still am looking for a righty to admit that Georgie is out of touch with reality.
An oilman, the PUS, had never heard the idea that gas would hit 4 dollars per gallon? Well, this is the same administration that said the Iraq War would take weeks.
hastings1066User is Offline

Posts:883


06/07/2008 2:32 PM Alert 

I give up. Bush hate overwhelms logic. When fact are shown that disprove your opinions you call it spin. Some of you will have an empty life next year,if Obama wins, with no one to hate. As for trying to discuss this thread with some of you - Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit.

kenmoreguy72User is Offline

Posts:204

06/07/2008 3:02 PM Alert 

Hastings....
The original post asked about standard of living and Bush (an oilman and PUS) being unaware of rising gas prices. It just seems odd that the PUS could not know (or have heard) that gas prices were going to reach the current prices they are.
As far as the spin, the righties took the thread in a different direction and began blaming liberals for the high costs of oil. That is spinning the thread because nobody can logically answer the cluelessness of Georgie.

ReaganUser is Offline

Posts:737


06/07/2008 4:08 PM Alert 
Posted By kenmoreguy72 on 06/07/2008 2:01 PM
This thread has turned into a typical neo-con spin tactic. When you question the color of the sky, they will begin a discussion on the color of the grass.



When is that last time a politican was asked a simply questions and you got a straight answer?  Bottom line is it comes down to business, and government doesn't understand business, that is why we have a national debt as large as we do.

I don't think 7-8 years ago anyone would have predicted gas at these prices.  You can all sit here and call Bush a moron, but I don't think you were predicting $4 gas back then either.  Keeping in mind what sets gas prices.  Supply and Demand (OPEC) and oil futures (speculators).  If your hatred for Bush wasn't so blinding, maybe you could understand this.

Yes, Bush and the Republicans failed to pass a bill for drilling in ANWAR.  Yes gas was half the price when they were trying to do so.

Yes, the Democrats have failed to do anything as well since they took over the Congress.  Fact- Congress is the one's that pass laws, and since the Democrats took over the Congress, gas has nearly doubled in the last 2 years.  There is an inconvienient truth!

Fact- the biggest profiteer on gasoline IS THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!


Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence.

Reagan, Los Angeles Times, January 7, 1970
AZ DreamingUser is Offline

Posts:292


06/07/2008 4:21 PM Alert 

Ahhh - back to the orginal post that asked if we have noticed that it is harder to maintain the same standard of living as compared to 6-7 years ago.   DEFINITELY!!   I knew that our children would probably not be able to live the lifesytle they grew up in, but I didn't realize that it would hit us too, at least not so soon and so quickly.

Reality is an eye opener and we will have to get used to it.

 


Senior Member
Joined July, 2005
kenmoreguy72User is Offline

Posts:204

06/08/2008 11:25 AM Alert 
Agreed Reagan--
Nobody could've predicted the insane price of gas that we are paying today 7-8 years ago. However, I am calling Bush a moron for not knowing the price would hit 4 dollars per gallon less than 3 months ago.
kenmoreguy72User is Offline

Posts:204

06/08/2008 11:52 AM Alert 
Also, speaking of inconvienient truths.....
Gas had hit 3 dollars per gallon in 2006....it did drop closer to the election (in fact, gas prices were their lowest of 2006 on election day), but continued to rise after the election.
Dems have failed to do anything...not sure how much they can do without the 2/3's majority. They actually have raised CAFE standards...not as much as they would have liked.
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