However.............no matter what, if a boy/man is told "no", anything that happens after that is without consent and is not acceptable. If girls should be educated about how their messages are being heard via dress and behavior, boys should be educated equally about how messages sent non-verbally may sometimes conflict with what is actually being said.

I don't disagree with you. I whole-heartedly agree! I just think you mis-understood what misspolitick was saying. . . . I don't think that is what she meant to say either. I think what she meant to say is a girl wouldn't WANT to say 'no' - NOT couldn't say 'no'.

Any form of 'no' is 'no' - it holds in a court of law (or should) it is rape - I don't think anyone is saying differently. . .

Desensitization

I know that most of society is desensitized to the styles of dress.  We don't notice it like our parents would have.  But there is nothing right about that.  On top of it - teenage boys coming into their sexual prime and being at their sexual prime ARE noticing - most for the first time! 

Experiment: 

I asked my husband - "Do you notice? Do you notice even if it is just a little cleavage at the blouse-line?"

His answer, "Yeah, I notice.  Not all the time, but I notice."

There have been times when my husband has asked if I noticed the scantilly-clad woman/teenager.  When I haven't, he says, "How did you NOT notice?"

I honestly believe women don't notice it as much, and because we don't we expect the men don't.  REALLY though, if women thought men didn't notice, would they dress that way?  It's the amount they notice that women are forgetting.

As a teenager, I usually wore very modest clothing - similar to what I wear now in coverage.  On occasion I would wear something tighter.  I didn't show any more skin - but the top or the dress was tighter.  It was done on purpose - every time - hoping a boy would think me attractive.  One time, I wore it to a Christmas concert at Symphony Hall.  While there, I happend to run into one of my friends and her boy friend.  When I greeted them, and noticed he looked at what I was wearing - then I noticed the small look of disgust.  I never wore that outfit again, and I will NEVER forget that look.  Even more, it was looser, and covered more than you see on most street corners today.  AND it was less than 15 yrs ago.

If the boys made it a point to date modestly-dressed girls, the girls would start wearing more clothing.  If the girls made it a point to dress more modestly - the boys would not be as distracted.

One more addition:

I remember as a kid, classmates snickering about finding their dad's Play-boy.  I remember most everyone understood this to be a 'naughty' thing.  This was 20 or so years ago, and most homes didn't have computers, and those that did almost never had access to the internet.

Today, most of the homes out there have internet.  People tell you porn in normal and shouldn't bother women, that it is OK for their boy friends and husbands to be looking at.  That it is natural.  They say, "At least if you allow it, you know it is happening - because it is happening whether you think it is or not."

What a sad, sad idea.  That women are actually talked into believing it is normal and "OK" for their husbands to look at other naked women for the sole purpose of being aroused.  There is nothing right about that, and those deep, down feelings of hurt and betrayal - they are justified, but there are too many people saying it is 'OK' and "I look at it with him" for these women to stand up and say, "Porn IS wrong, and it will NOT be in my home!"  It is addictive, distructive, and demeaning. 

We want our children to not have babies - we need to stop allowing the mind-set that these things are OK.  Porn has no purpose.

disclaimer:  my husband and I have not struggled with a porn addiction (thank goodness) but we have seen more than one family struggle through it - close friends and family members. 

What a crazy, crazy statement.  They  "may not be able to stop"?  They "won't be able to say 'no' anymore"?  What you're describing is NOT a girl's inability to dress appropriately but a boy's inability to show control.  We call that rape.......in this country, at least.

There's no such thing as "unable to stop".

Actually, I was referring to rape. Date rape. Although,it's all the same to me. Rape happens a lot and I feel like girls have no idea about the extent of sexual thought that boys have. Not ALL horny boys rape, I know. But it happens unfortunately. I don't want to point fingers I just want teens to understand reality a little better.

(thanks for trying to clarify love@hm.

I guess I'm the one mis-understanding  happens WAAAY more than it should    I'll get over it though!

Geez...reading this, I can't believe how far we've regressed!

Let me preface by saying that, yes, the only way to be 100% safe from both STDs and unwanted pregnancy is abstinence. 

But let me also say that the way I learned that was through sex education at school!

I was raised in an uber-conservative environment.  If it weren't for what I learned at school, I'd probably have had a Carrie-esque experience when I first menstruated.  I had no idea what was going on "down there", and no one to teach it to me.  Thanks to sex education at school I came to love and respect my woman's body.

What I'm reading on this forum is a lot of disrespect for education about the female body - and brain.  What, we don't want our daughters to protect themselves?  Teaching them that everything will be okay if they don't "do it" is bogus at best, abusive at worst.  Yes, it's nice to imagine that our daughters will never experience sex outside of a nice, Christian marraige, but is it realistic?  And do we want them to be unprepared for the truths adults must face? 

I don't know - heck, I'm scared - of what a lot of adults must be teaching their kids.  But I'd like my daughters to know that sex can be a wonderful thing, a beautiful thing...but that it can also be used to hurt them.  That they are the ones that will ultimately bear (literally, often) responsibility for the act.  I want them educated as to their rights...and their responsibilities.  Yes, I think birth control is a female responsibilty.  So shoot me.    But how can it be the responsibility of someone who doesn't even know how it works or how to obtain it because they're sheltered by parents who think an unwanted pregnancy, or worse, can never happen to their good little girl? 

Teach the kids morals.  But also teach them their options.  Ignorance has no "values". 

If you are a teenager, then a baby is a punishment.

Being in Maricopa, just gives them 1 more reason to hate their parents.

I'm pretty sure you can look pretty and womanly and be dressed modestly at the same time.  I'm not sure why you are trying to twist this.  Guilty, paranoid and backwards? 

Since when did they have pretty  clothes at Lane Bryant?