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| | Author | Messages | |
resofcopa
Posts:41
 | | 08/20/2007 10:51 PM |
 Alert | I just read the article on the sports code of conduct that Parks & Rec wants to initiate. While reading the article it mentions that it will be used to protect officials.
WHY DO OFFICIALS NEED MORE PROTECTION!!!!!
They are currently the most protected class of people in the world. You can't question them, you can't raise your voice to them, you can't look at them the wrong way (i.e Dave Chavez), you certainly can't touch them. How much more protection do they need.
If the officials would be more concerned with making correct calls instead of hedging their bets or using their 1-hour of power they would not need to be so protected.
It is just ridiculous that anyone would institute a rule that gives officials any more protection. I tell you what the city should do, send the officials to officiating school and then to communication school. It is really unreasonable to think that coaches know nothing and officials know everything. So, when an official males a call that the coach would like to dispute the official discards the coaches information and REFUSES to change his call (even if he knows he should) then when the coach gets upset that the official is being disrespectful and irresponsible the official uses his power and throws the coach out of the game.
I remember an interview with a football referee once where he said a good referre is one who does not effect the outcome of the game but a great referee is one who nobody knows is even there.
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| | XoDay
Posts:10
| | 08/22/2007 12:15 PM |
Alert | Anyone who has ever coached, managed or officiated a sport will immediately know how ignorant your statements are Resofcopa. The reason for the expanded protection is found simply by reading your post.
Anyone who has ever worked with Mr. Chavez knows the caliber of his character and the depth of his dedication. Mr. Chavez and his body of volunteer work need no defense against the anonymous ramblings of a half wit like yourself. | | | |
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| | Nothingtodo
Posts:285
| | 08/22/2007 1:55 PM |
Alert | Many of the umpires (including David Chavez and THREE of his boys) are volunteers. Why should they have to take any lip from parents or children? They are not only doing the best that they can, devoting hours and hours and hours and HOURS of their own time to make sure that the children of Maricopa can play baseball and softball, Mr. Chavez is currently running one of the best umpiring staff in Arizona. Granted, there are better and worse umpires in ANY league, including MLL, and bad calls are definitely made, it is part of the game of baseball.
Learning to stay respectful, control your temper, and take bad calls in a mature manner will benefit these children for the rest of their lives. Good sportsmanship is a behavior that will live with them and benefit them in every area of their lives. | |
I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven’t got the guts to bite people themselves. ~Sir Geoffrey Streatfield | |
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| | alanf
Posts:1473
| | 08/22/2007 2:22 PM |
Alert | | You had us at hours..... | | | |
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| | resofcopa
Posts:41
| | 08/22/2007 10:15 PM |
Alert | Volunteer umpires and referees are doing a great service, however, they are not always right. The level of authority that they have is unprecedented in our society. You can not question anything that they say or do without the retribution of being thrown out of the game your in and th enext game or two.
Xo - what is apparent is that YOU have never coached at a level above pee wee or you would understand the challenges of umpires and referrees. I have been a part of and witnessed MANY referrees state AFTER the game that they blew a call and they were sorry, WHY DID THEY NOT CHANGE THE CALL DURING THE GAME!!!! Because it would show that they DO make mistakes and SHOULD be questioned. Instead they make incorrect calls and stand by them under the power of the ability to throw coaches out of games. Referees and umpires should be accountable just like everyone else, no more no less, but they are not.
As for Chavez, I watched him throw a guy out of a game for rolling his eyes, the coach said nothing but his authority was being challenged so he showed his power and ejected a coach. I have also watched him at baseball games be so tuned into what is being said about him in the stands he misses calls so he can yell at the fans and threaten them. He is not the only ref like that but he is certainly one of them.
If referees and umpires were held accountable for their calls and would be open to discussion and making the changes that should be made I would have no problem. The issue is that they don't make changes and they don't listen. Many coaches have been a part of the sports they coach much longer than the ref's at the games, it is irresponsible to think that only the referee knows the rules and reg's.
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| | MaricopaParksandRec
Posts:99
| | 08/22/2007 11:19 PM |
Alert | ResofCopa-
The Sports Code of Conduct is not a document that is 100% "protecting officials." It's a code of conduct that simply states if you do "X" then at a minimum "Y" could happen or at a maximum "Z" could happen. You've spun this around and have used this as a way to attack David Chavez. I have no idea who you are and David probably doesn't either. Why attack him on this forum and this thread? Seriously, why? If you have a beef with him I am pretty sure he'd be willing to sit down with you and talk about things.
As for the City, we contract out with Southwest Umpire Association for our softball umpires. We brought in some soccer officials to train our younger ref's and we're now sending those same officials to a 3-day clinic that will have them certified as an 8th level official. We recently had a new softball umpire make 2 mistakes that drew the ire of both teams playing. Once a call is made it is made. Some officials will never reverse their call and some will. When this happens in our programs we look at the situation and discuss the matter with the game official and try to correct the behavior/call so it does not happen again in the future.
In some cases, players and coaches come out to the park with a chip on their shoulder and they act out of line. They act on the offensive and that automatically puts an official in a defensive state of mind. Good, seasoned umpires will take a lot of grief from players or coaches who have a sense of "entitlement" to bash the official. However, there is a point where the coach/player crosses the line.
Here's the code:
All rules will be strictly enforced. The term “individual” includes the following: coach, manager, player, fan or spectator. A team is responsible for the conduct of its individual players and spectators. Misconduct may result in penalizing an individual and/or team from all Department leagues and tournaments. The term “official” includes the following: umpire, League Director, and/or City Staff. This code of conduct also applies to any organization using City facilities.
I. No individual shall: At any time lay a hand upon, shove, strike, or threaten to strike an official or individual.
i. Minimum Penalty: Banned from the game and/or playing field area with a two game suspension.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Banned from the City of Maricopa sports programs and assault charges may occur.
II. No individual shall: Discuss with an official, in any manner, the decision reached by such official except the manager, coach or captain.
i. Minimum Penalty: Warning by official.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Removal from the game and the playing field.
III. No individual shall: Using unnecessarily rough tactics in the play of the game.
i. Minimum Penalty: Ejection from the game and playing field area with a one game suspension.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Banned from the City of Maricopa sports programs and/or assault charges may occur.
IV. No individual shall: Commit an act of a verbal attack upon any official or individual on or off the playing field.
i. Minimum Penalty: Ejected from two league games and placed on probation for the remainder of the season.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Suspension for one complete year and probation for six months.
V. No individual shall: Use profane, obscene, or vulgar language in any manner, at any time, on or off the playing field nor shall said individual engage in public indecency.
i. Minimum Penalty: Warning by the official or League Director.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Ejected from the game and probation for the remainder of the season.
VI. No individual shall: Appear on the field of play at any time in an intoxicated condition or under the influence of any other type of drug which will infringe upon the individual’s safety or the safety of others.
i. Minimum Penalty: Ejection from the game and probation for the remainder of the season.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Banned from the City of Maricopa sports programs.
VII. No individual shall: Drink alcoholic beverage(s) during league or tournament play.
i. Minimum Penalty: Forfeiture of the game and probation for the remainder of the season.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Suspension of the team and probation for six months.
VIII. No individual shall: Commit an act of demonstration of unsportsmanlike conduct.
i. Minimum Penalty: Warning by official or League Director.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Banned from City of Maricopa sports program.
IX. No individual shall: Drink alcoholic beverages during youth programs.
i. Minimum Penalty: Suspension for the remainder of the season and probation for the next season.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Suspension from play up to six months and probation for six months.
X. No individual shall: Damage, destroy, or steal City property.
i. Minimum Penalty: Suspension for the remainder of the season and compensation for any damages that occur.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Banned from City of Maricopa sports programs and criminal charges may be filed.
XI. No individual shall: Commit an act of objectionable demonstration of dissent by throwing gloves, bats, balls, or any other forceful actions.
i. Minimum Penalty: Warning by official.
ii. Maximum Penalty: Removal from the game and the playing field.
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|  | Nothingtodo
Posts:285
| | 08/22/2007 11:25 PM |
Alert | I have never been involved in any league or watched any baseball game with MLL where calls were regularly challenged. I can only imagine how long a game would last if every single call that a coach didn't like was challenged, discussed and then agreed upon. While some situations are appropriately called for review and games can be challenged and played officially under protest, it would not be appropriate or expedient to allow for the kind of action you are calling for, resofcopa.
I simply do not believe that Mr. Chavez threw a coach out of a game for rolling his eyes. I imagine there is much more to that story than a mere eye-rolling.
I umpired last year in the league and on a personal note, I found it nerve-wracking. Holy cow, I thought I would eat my clicker I was so nervous. The parents were fantastic, the coaches doubly so, I did mostly little-guy games, and I was so thrilled and impressed with the good sportsmanship that was displayed for the children to emulate. I'm sorry you had a bad experience in the league last year, resofcopa. I, for one, was continually bowled over by the umpiring staff. When I grow up, I want to be just like them. | |
I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven’t got the guts to bite people themselves. ~Sir Geoffrey Streatfield | |
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| | Nothingtodo
Posts:285
| | 08/22/2007 11:27 PM |
Alert | Posted By alanf on 08/22/2007 2:22 PM
You had us for hours.....
Come on, it wasn't that long of a post....Maybe you should brush up on your reading?
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I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven’t got the guts to bite people themselves. ~Sir Geoffrey Streatfield | |
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| | livinginthecopasux
Posts:944
| | 08/23/2007 11:50 AM |
Alert | Posted By Nothingtodo on 08/22/2007 11:27 PM Posted By alanf on 08/22/2007 2:22 PM
You had us for hours..... Come on, it wasn't that long of a post....Maybe you should brush up on your reading? 
@ hours...not for hours... | |
BUSTED! | |
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| | Bionicbunny
Posts:594
| | 08/23/2007 1:33 PM |
Alert | | Resofcopa, did you act like an ass and get yourself ejected from a game?! Or was it your spouse that got ejected? | | | |
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| | alanf
Posts:1473
| | 08/23/2007 2:18 PM |
Alert | Posted By livinginthecopasux on 08/23/2007 11:50 AM Posted By Nothingtodo on 08/22/2007 11:27 PM Posted By alanf on 08/22/2007 2:22 PM
You had us for hours..... Come on, it wasn't that long of a post....Maybe you should brush up on your reading? @ hours...not for hours...
Thank you for clarifying that for her livinginthecopasux. She just got back from the big city and is probably low on brain cells  | | | |
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| | Nothingtodo
Posts:285
| | 08/23/2007 9:40 PM |
Alert | Posted By livinginthecopasux on 08/23/2007 11:50 AM
You're worth every hour.
Oh, that's sweet. Thanks.
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I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven’t got the guts to bite people themselves. ~Sir Geoffrey Streatfield | |
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| | Nothingtodo
Posts:285
| | | XoDay
Posts:10
| | 08/24/2007 10:49 AM |
Alert | MaricopaParksandRec, excellent reply. The Code of Conduct is appropriate and will benefit the experience of all sporting activities in our City.
Hopefully your response won't be overshadowed by the grossly irrelevant posts that have cropped up on this Topic. Res obviously has a personal ax to grind but the topic is a valid one. The last thing we need is another "Interseting topic, lets all talk about me!" post fest. At least Bionic is curious as to the nature of Res' experience.
Again, great job on the Code. Protecting the authority of officials is key to the continuing integrity of sport. | | | |
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| | leehopper
Posts:120
| | 08/24/2007 10:22 PM |
Alert | I refereed youth soccer in California and Arizona for 12 years.
During that time frame I had 1 bad incident with a coach, and 2 bad incedents with players.
I had 25 incidents with parents.
I had to re-certify every each, both on knowledge of rules and physical performance.
Parents are by far the worst problem.
1- they don't know the rules
2- there emotions get in they way of rationality
3- they spew out the anger verbally,
4- they yell at there own kids for making mistakes
I was a paid referre, but I also did many games as a volunteer.
REMEMBER FOLKS....ITS A GAME....THE KIDS ARE THERE TO HAVE FUN.
The youngest age group I had problems with was 7 year olds......go figure...not the kids...THE PARENTS
Parents should be banned from the field for ever | |
There are no real reasons for failure,
only excuses | |
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