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| | Author | Messages | |
Sapo
Posts:192
 | | 07/29/2007 9:55 AM |
 Alert | So...there are two LONG threads on here where the posters on this forum are absolutely screaming for the city to "do something" to rectify the situation that occurred at Ramsey's last week.
And...if we are to believe the C Ashton post, the city "did something."
And now many of the same people are posting about how shameful the city has acted in firing the individuals responsible for the situation (the fight).
So -- an honest question -- is there ANYTHING that the leaders of the City of Maricopa can do to make you happy? I mean, there is one thread with EIGHTEEN pages of diatribe against the firefighters and Ramsey and the City -- what did you EXPECT the city to do other than fire the guys? Sheesh.
Sapo
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| | Tigg
Posts:549
| | 07/29/2007 10:03 AM |
Alert | I expect them to require the firefighers who were involved to make a public apology (Cody Ashton did this on his own, which shows integrety and bravery on his part, but does not show appropriate action by the city). I expect them to discipline these men - unpaid leave, a fine, extended probation with a clause that if they sucker-punch another citizen then they'll be out of chances), anger management classes or another form of discipline that will teach these men to control themselves while giving them a chance to learn that lesson.
I expect them to take into account that the 2 men held different parts in this incident - the person who was arguing should not receive the same level of discipline as the person who did the punching. I expect them to issue a press release that states that they have made an appropriate and reasonable decision and that explains what they are going to do to ensure that the next time a situation comes up they will be better prepaired to manage it rather than run around not knowing what to do and silencing the 1 person who is acting intelligently (putting those involved on paid leave pending an investigation so that an appropriate level of discipline can be carried out). I expect them to make a public apology for not having complete HR guidelines before hiring employees/public servents.
I also expect them to have legal council that does the required job and makes sure that things like HR guidelines are sufficient for the positions and that they are opperating under legally adopted guidelines. I have seen MANY instances where it appears clear that this city needs better legal council than we have (the regular use of the 'emergency clause' and the lack of rules, regulations and operating procedures for the police and fire departments that have been officially adpoted by the city are prime examples. | | | |
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| | bizybeth
Posts:569
| | 07/29/2007 10:11 AM |
Alert | Very well said, Tigg. Sapo, you see, it is not black and white, on or off. There were not just two choices: ignore or fire.
As I said in the other thread, most of the complaints were based on the lack of proper city action, proper being the key word here. tjtellez mentioned how, if there were no policies regarding off-duty behavior, how is firing an appropriate action?
In addition to Tigg's excellent list, I would add a reminder that no one was interviewed as witnesses to the event. That seems very basic to me.
So you see Sapo, we live in a colorful, full spectrum world with many choices besides do nothing and overcompensate. | |
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| | Threekids
Posts:201
| | 07/29/2007 10:19 AM |
Alert | | although it is very sad, I think they where fired because the where still on probation. in any job if you are on probation and get written up they let you go. It is very sad but the firemen should not have put themselves in that situation knowing they where still on probation. | | | |
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| | bizybeth
Posts:569
| | 07/29/2007 10:31 AM |
Alert | I can understand that. I am not trying to say I know the best decision here. However, reports repeated stated that Cody ( his fiancee) was approached. He did not swing hit push etc. How does that justify his firing?
My other point was that, in order to determine who should and shouldn't have been written up in the first place, it seems interviews of impartial witnesses should have taken place. As the reports stat, this did not happen. So how is there an objective scenario of what took place at all? how do you make decisions on hearsay, without witnesses?
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| | Jodypag
Posts:216
| | 07/29/2007 11:59 AM |
Alert | | I have to say I completely agree with Tigg on what she has said completely I couldnt have said it better myself. I would expect them to be punished, but definately not fired. To explain to my 10yr old that they were indeed punished even I think would be good so she knows even they are held accountable for thier actions. | |
Jody
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|  | DesertDweller
Posts:2562
| | 07/29/2007 12:55 PM |
Alert | Part of leadership is coaching, especially when you're dealing with young people starting their careers. I believe that the Fire Chief was capable of coaching his men, based upon his years of experience, and that he was ready to do so when he put them on leave. The city took away his leadership athority and took their own form of action.
It would be the least path of resistance to fire a probationary employee. There is very little recourse, regardless the reason.
I don't know the history of these guys or what there performance has been to date, so I can't even begin to second-guess the city's decision. Perhaps there were other incidents or performance issues. I think as long as the city wavers on important decisions and fails to show decisive leadership when it counts, people are going to be more critical of any decision that they make. | |
Stupid should hurt!
Desert Dweller - Senior Member - Posts: 2982 - Joined: Feb 2006 | |
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| | bizybeth
Posts:569
| | 07/29/2007 5:04 PM |
Alert | | I believe Mr. Ashton mentioned that Chris Hertzog was not a probationary firefighter. | |
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| | ravensnest
Posts:135
| | 07/29/2007 5:14 PM |
Alert | | The city did make me happy by taking action against those that brought shame to the fire department and the city of Maricopa... Hopefully they as individuals will learn a valuable lesson | | | |
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| | heat sprite
Posts:334
| | 07/29/2007 5:18 PM |
Alert | | Well said Tigg! | |
***********************
Heat beats snow!!!
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| | demonica
Posts:850
| | 07/30/2007 5:02 PM |
Alert | | what tigg said. | | | |
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