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| | Author | Messages | |
babycrazy
Posts:48
 | | 09/09/2007 8:38 AM |
 Alert | I totally don't!!!
Your opinion is so full of holes its not even funny to read at this point.
"I do not need to be a parent to know that if you raise your child to ATTACK another kid - 15 kids to ONE, then YOU SUCK AS A PARENT!"
Really now, have you never raised your fist in anger??? If so does that mean your parents raised you wrong. I will say that it does not make it right for what happened, but there is such a thing as free will and mob mentality if you will. I just can't imagine that you personally think that the parents are not working to correct these issues as you have no experience with raising children as you have none! Wow maybe you should visit each of our houses and counsel us on how to be better parents as you seem to have all the answers.
"These people should know that they incapable of adequately raising a child and give them up for adoption. There's plenty of couples out there who can't have kids who aren't as 'expended'.
Obviously you do not study the effects of adoption has on children and families
The following Web page was appendices to a paper written by Ginni D. Snodgrass for PSY/SWK-495 credits at George Fox University in 1998. These appendices only respond to the frequent questions about adoptees' and birthmothers' psychological well-being. Why do adoptees and birth families need to search and have a reunion?
Adoptee Section Birthmothers Section References Section
Statistics on the Effects of Adoption
Appendix A
Research and Studies on Adoptees
The results are in; the great human experiment failed! The effects are hardly noticeable with some, but extremely so with others. Moreover, for those whom the system was supposedly designed to benefit, the children, were failed the most. Many adoptees do not realize that their difficulties, at least in part, stem from simply having been adopted. All adoptees have effects from their adoption experience. The degree of the effects and symptomatic behaviors vary a great deal.
There are vulnerabilities shared by all adoptees. In those most vulnerable, a distinct pattern of behaviors can be seen. Some have labeled this the "Adopted Child Syndrome." (Kirschner)
Adopted 'children' are disproportionately represented with learning disabilities and organic brain syndrome. (Schecter and Genetic Behaviors)
Mental health professionals are surprised at the alarmingly high number of their patients who are adopted. Studies show an average of 25 to 35% of the young people in residential treatment centers are adoptees. This is 17 times the norm. (Lifton, BIRCO--Pannor and Lawrence)
Adoptees are more likely to have difficulties with drug and alcohol abuse, as well as, eating disorders, attention deficit disorder, infertility, suicide and untimely pregnancies. (Young, Bohman, Mitchell, Ostroff, Ansfield, Lifton and Schecter)
Adoptees are more likely to choose alternate lifestyles. (Ansfield and Lifton)
Alarmingly high numbers of adoptees are sent to disciplinary/correctional schools or are locked out of their homes [adoptive]. (Anderson and Carlson)
60 to 85% of the teens at Coldwater Canyon's Center For Personal Development, are adopted. That is 30 to 40 times the norm. The center is a private acute-care psychiatric hospital/school in Southern California. (Ostroff)
50 to 70% of the teens at The Haven in New Trier Township, Illinois, are adopted. That is 25 to 35 times the norm. The Haven is a resource center for street kids. (Henderson)
The secrecy in an adoptive family, and the denial that the adoptive family is different builds dysfunction into it. "... while social workers and insecure adoptive parents have structured a family relationship that is based on dishonesty, evasions and exploitation. To believe that good relationships will develop on such a foundation is psychologically unsound" (Lawrence). As John Bradshaw, the well-renowned therapist, says, "A family is only as sick as its secrets."
Secrecy erects barriers to forming a healthy identity. Sealed records implicitly asks for an extreme form of denial. There is no school of psychotherapy which regards denial as a positive strategy in forming a sense of self and dealing with day-to-day realities. (Howard)
Adoption is a psychological burden to the adoptee. The effect of this burden is known, but the origin is confused. Secrecy plays a part in it, but Nancy Newton Verrier, Ph.D., sources the difficulties to the separation of the newborn from the mother. The Primal Wound is the most recent and revealing work done on the effects of adoption on the adopted. In the author's own words, "I believe that the connection established during the nine months in utero is a profound connection, and it is my hypothesis that the severing of that connection in the original separation of the adopted child from the birth mother causes a primal or narcissistic wound, which affects the adoptee's sense of Self and often manifests in a sense of loss, basic mistrust, anxiety and depression, emotional and/or behavioral problems, and difficulties in relationships with significant others (21)." Verrier has been criticized for her work, but her response says it all, "The only people who can really judge this work, however, are those about whom it is written: the adoptees themselves. Only they, as they note their responses to what is written here, will really know in their deepest selves the validity of this work, the existence or nonexistence of the primal wound" (xvii).
Secrecy, denial, and the primal wound have all played a role in the effect adoption has on the adoptee, but there is still more. Having spent nearly eight years studying and working as a volunteer with over 1000 people affected by an adoption (nearly all adoptees and birthmothers); I have seen the effects of adoption.
Humans have a basic need to feel they are individually whole, yet part of a whole. For the adopted this can be difficult. Often adoptees feel they do not belong (Kirschner). It is very lonely and isolating to feel different from those you should feel the closest to, your family. Edin Lipinski, M.D., brings insight to these feelings:
In an existential sense, the past is as important to adopted people as their future. It is the present that is most troublesome. Not knowing where they fit into the spectrum of happenings is a great problem for them.
Adoptee Section Birthmothers Section References Section
Appendix B
Research and Studies on Birthmothers
Research tells us that the birthmothers I worked with were not exceptions. In 1982, Edward Rynearson, Ph.D. described the experience of twenty of his adult patients who, as teenagers, surrendered their first child to adoption. "Nineteen of them established an intense private monologue with the fetus (during pregnancy), including a rescue fantasy in which they and the newborn infant could somehow be "saved" from the relinquishment" (Chesler).
The pressure upon these mothers was one they could not stop. Sixty-nine percent of 334 birthmothers surveyed felt they were pressured into surrendering (Deykin). Another study reports forty-four percent of 350 birthmothers surveyed surrendered against their will. The study revealed the reasons for surrender centered around being single, poverty, young age, and parental pressure (VanKeppel). Some birthmothers told me they were shipped off to a home for unwed mothers, and told not to come home until they rid of the problem. For them there was no choice; they had no where to go.
The adoption experience for most birthmothers leaves a large emotional scar. According to the authors of "The Adoption Triangle: The Effects of Sealed Records on Adoptees, Birthparents and Adoptive Parents," most birthmothers expressed feelings of loss, pain and mourning that remained undimmed with time (Sorosky). A University of California, at Los Angeles, psychiatrist and author, Arthur Sorosky, M.D., likened the emotional scarring from surrendering a child to a psychological amputation (Sorosky).
The pain of the experience was hard to bear. As time went by the pain did not diminish, it increased. Robin Winkler, Ph.D. of the Institute for Family Studies, Melbourne, Victoria, reports that ninety percent of birthmothers surveyed felt deeply harmed by the adoption and the pain increased with time (BIRCO-Winkler). Drs. Harriet Ganson and Judith Cook found, "Birthmothers expressed deep anguish over adoption" (BIRCO-Ganson). Phyllis Silverman, Ph.D., who has studied birthmothers for twenty years, on behalf of Mary Beth Whitehead testified that ninety-five percent of the women she has studied found their loss shattering and worse than they imagined (Chesler).
The effect of the pain felt by birthmothers manifests itself in many ways. Sorosky tells us that most birthmothers do not enter psychotherapy because they surrendered a child; they push that experience to the subconscious. However, it often surfaces as the key to their inability to cope (Sorosky). Birthmothers seek therapy for numerous reasons:
Kaiser-Permanente Health Care conducted a study in 1979 of birthmothers who surrendered babies. Forty percent reported depression as the most common emotional disorder. Sixty percent reported medical, sexual and psychiatric problems. (BIRCO-Kaiser)
In another study 20 of 22 birthmothers sought psychotherapy for problems including depression alienation, physical complaints with no biological basis, sexual difficulties and difficulty making commitments (Millen).
Phyllis Silverman, Ph.D., interviewed fifty birthmothers and found many were not aware until years later they were grieving. "They all reported a sense of malaise. Still other birthmothers become weepy, restless, anxious and forgetful" (Silverman).
Birthmothers were not prepared for the aftermath of the surrender. They were told by the adoption professionals involved that it would be over soon; they would forget the experience; go on with their life and have more children. It worked that way for very few, if any. In the thousands of reunions I am aware of, there is only one birthmother who does not remember the experience. That one was in an accident, resulting in full amnesia of all personal history before the accident.
In time birthmothers do go on with the day-to-day tasks, but it proved impossible for most to pick-up where they left off before becoming pregnant. In Lost and Found: The Adoption Experience, Betty Jean Lifton, Ph.D., describes what birthmothers were told. "The social worker said it would hurt for a while, and then they would forget, as if they had experienced nothing more serious than a nine-month stomach ache. They found they could not go back to the life they had left behind because they had become different people in the process of becoming mothers" (Lifton). Carole J. Anderson, M.S.W., J.D., in her booklet, Eternal Abuse of Women: Adoption Abuse, explains this in another way. "Adoption is not the end of a painful chapter, but the beginning of a lifetime of wondering, worrying, and missing the child. It is a wound that time cannot heal...it is a limbo loss" (Anderson). A limbo loss is what the families of MIA (missing in action) soldiers experience. There is no finality; not to know whether the loved one is alive or dead. Always waiting and hoping he or she will be found.
True some birthmothers did marry, and have other children. However, according to research, far too many did not have another child, 20 to 30% by choice (Anderson, Deykin), and others suffered a secondary infertility rate 170% higher than the general population (Deykin).
Ninety-six percent of birthmothers want a reunion (Ganson, Deykin).
Adoptee Section Birthmothers Section References Section
References:
Anderson, C., M.S.W., J.D.. Eternal abuse of women: adoption abuse. Concerned United Birthparents: Des Moines.
Anderson, C., M.S.W., J.D.. CUB Communicator: Des Moines.
Ansfield, J., M.D.. The adopted child.
Bohman, M and Van Korring, A.. (1979) "Psychiatric illness among adults adopted as infants". Acta Psychiati Scand.
Carlson, J.. (1988) "Adoption and criminal behavior". Workshop American Adoption Congress, Calgary, Alberta.
Chesler, P.. (1988) Sacred bond: the legacy of Baby M. Times: New York.
Deykin, E., Ph.D.. (1982) "The post adoption experience of surrendering parents". American Journal of Orthopsychiatry.
Henig, R.. (September 11, 1988) "Body and mind". The New York Times Magazine.
Isaac, R. and Spencer, J.. (1965) Adopting a child today. New York: Harper & Row.
Kirk, H., Ph.D.. (1985) Adoptive kinship: a modern institution in need of reform. 2nd Ed. Ben-Simon: Port Angeles.
Kirschner, D., Ph.D.. (1988) "The adopted child syndrome." Lecutre. American Adoption Congress, Boston.
Lifton, B.J., Ph.D.. (1988) Lost and found: the adoption experience. 2nd Ed. New York City.
Lawrence, M., Ph.D. (1979) "Dishonesty as the best policy". Lecuture. American Adoption Congress.
Mitchell, J., M.D.. (1985) "Anorexia nervose and bulimia". U of Minnesota P.
Ostroff, R., (November 20, 1986) "A look inside America's hidden system of teen control". Rolling Stone.
Schecter, M., Ph.D., (1981) Lecture. American Adoption Congress.
Silverman, P., Ph.D.. (1981) Helping women cope with grief. Sage.
Sorosky, A.D., M.D., Baron, A., M.S.W, Panor, R., M.S.W. (1990) The adoption triangle. 2nd Ed. Anchor/Double Day: Garden City.
Sorosky, A., M.D.. (December 11, 1988) "Mothers who give up their children". Parade. Los Angeles.
VanKeppel, M.. (March/April 1988) People Searching News.
Verrier, N., Ph.D. (1993) The primal wound. Baltimore: Gateway.
Young, J.. "Steve Jobs: the journey is the reward".
Compilation. Adoption Reform Education Packet. Ed. Swanson, JoAnne. BIRCO: Gladstone, 1990. Interview and written response contributions from the following persons:
Ganson, H., Ph.D. & Cook, J., Ph.D.. (1986) "The open records controversy: a woman's issue".
Henderson, Paul. Director The Haven, New Trier Township.
Howard, M., Ph.D.. "The adoptee's dilema: obstacles in identity formation".
Kaiser-Permanente Health Care. (1979)
Lawrence, Margaret MacDonald. Psychologist and Educator.
Lipinski, M.D., Edin. President Canadian Psychiatric Association, Director Medical Services, Simon Fraser University.
Millen, L., Ph.D. & Roll, S.Ph.D.. (1985) "Solomon's mothers: a study in pathological bereavement".
Pannor, M.S.W., Reuben. Director Community Services, Vista Del Mar Child Care Services, Los Angeles.
Partridge, M.S.W., Penny. Adoption Forum
Winkler, Robin, Ph.D.. (1984) "Relinquishing mothers in adoption: their long term adjustment
So do us a favor and not just start spouting off about what you have no idea on.
Ok Who the heck asked you to do this
"What I don't like is people who insist I have some obligation to pick up the slack from lousy parents."
Hmm so what have you done? Have you counseled children? Personally for their adoption? Or is this something you say to make yourself feel better? | |
Living in Copaville is better than living any where else. | |
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| | heuertwo
Posts:205
| | 09/09/2007 8:49 AM |
Alert | <div class='NTForums_Quote'>Posted By babycrazy on 09/09/2007 8:38 AM
I totally don't!!!
Your opinion is so full of holes its not even funny to read at this point.
"I do not need to be a parent to know that if you raise your child to ATTACK another kid - 15 kids to ONE, then YOU SUCK AS A PARENT!"
Really now, have you never raised your fist in anger??? If so does that mean your parents raised you wrong. I will say that it does not make it right for what happened, but there is such a thing as free will and mob mentality if you will. I just can't imagine that you personally think that the parents are not working to correct these issues as you have no experience with raising children as you have none! Wow maybe you should visit each of our houses and counsel us on how to be better parents as you seem to have all the answers.
Maybe I have raised my fist in anger, but I didn't grab 14 of my friends to beat-down ONE person.
How dare you JUSTIFY what they did. Sounds like one of your kids was in on it and your laying the groundwork for his defense in court.
There is such a thing as free will and those 15 kids chose freely to beat the crap out of ONE kid.
Those kids have LOUSY PARENTS. They taught little Johnny it is OK to fight ONE kid with 14 of your buddies.
For you to sit there and make excuses is sick.
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| | babycrazy
Posts:48
| | 09/09/2007 9:20 AM |
Alert | Oh wait I forgot that your God! You have never done anything wrong even now. Why don't you crawl back into your cave and stay there. You don't have any children so you have no right talking about how those kids are raised.
So why don't you shut up and leave the parenting to people who have kids. Now I see why you are as stuck up as you are, because kids are just like their parents.
Oh and another thing, my kids are not old enough to run around at night with no adults. | |
Living in Copaville is better than living any where else. | |
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| | heuertwo
Posts:205
| | 09/09/2007 10:04 AM |
Alert | Oh ok, the next time 15 kids beat the crap out of ONE kid (which is ok with you, because they have free will) then I will just mind my own business.
I have made mistakes in my life and done things that at the time seemed like a good idea and that now I regret.
However, not once did I ATTACK 1 kid with 14 buddies.
I have no kids, yet I can still tell bad parenting when I see it. I had 2 parents and I was a kid, so that's my experience.
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| | Kauffman
Posts:4
| | 09/10/2007 8:55 AM |
Alert | OH NO heuertwo!!!!
Don't listen to all of those people that are saying to butt out. I am a parent and if I saw a fight I would be all over it! I do not teach my kids to fight (not saying I am the perfect parent) but I do teach them right from wrong.
Kids that are "bullies" learn that crap from home so for lack of better words "it is learned behavior" Parent or not a parent, NO ONE SHOULD JUST ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN!!! Step in and break that up.
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| | Sinbad
Posts:3033
| | 09/10/2007 9:03 AM |
Alert | OK.. I am done..
When you have to go over 2000 words to make a point... The thread is DEAD!
Ciao | |
Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
______________________________________
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San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these | |
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|  | Kauffman
Posts:4
| | 09/10/2007 9:12 AM |
Alert | | Sinbad........Nice game yesterday huh??? | | | |
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| | Sinbad
Posts:3033
| | 09/10/2007 10:18 AM |
Alert | It was a GREAT game. It was one of those..EDGE of the SEAT games....
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Just doing it one day at a time. Change is good and it should be looked upon as an improvment! not a problem.
______________________________________
***************************************
San Diego Super Chargers! GO!!!
Joined old forum March 2006
Post count: 3068 + these | |
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| | heuertwo
Posts:205
| | 09/11/2007 7:15 AM |
Alert |
BAD PARENTS raise BAD KIDS.
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| | nappiedog
Posts:8
| | 09/12/2007 6:54 AM |
Alert | | Totally agree with Kaufman and you the kids now at days have no parents, I can remember at a meeting at the clubhouse when it was told about the pop ups in the pool getting stolen about two years ago all of the parents sid not my child. The angels in this development do no wrong, and its going to snow today. | | | |
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