JillyBean
Posts:375
 | | 10/06/2007 6:31 PM |
 Alert | http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/oct/06/genetics.climatechange
Although they have to use an existing bacterial cell, they are still creating a new species. How long before creationists lose their "You can't create life from nothing" argument? | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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EEE
Posts:398
| | 10/06/2007 6:56 PM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 10/06/2007 6:31 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/oct/06/genetics.climatechange
Although they have to use an existing bacterial cell, they are still creating a new species. How long before creationists lose their "You can't create life from nothing" argument?
Well it doesn't look like they created life from nothing here. So "You can't create life from nothing" argument is still valid, unless the creator is God.
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Yeah, it's true- He allowed the fall of man/
But He used it now to exalt the Lamb/
The Lord, who's wise, permits existence of sin/
to be glorified in His forgiveness to men/ | |
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JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 10/06/2007 8:47 PM |
Alert | I'm aware of that.. but it is only a matter of time..
I said "How long until"..  | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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Copa Conscious
Posts:379
| | 10/07/2007 7:36 AM |
Alert | Scientists already created a new life form from nothing. They are called 'breast implants'
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joe_2007
Posts:83
| | 10/08/2007 12:18 PM |
Alert | ROFL!!!! Not at you JillyBean. Just the article.
Thanks for the great laugh!
These guys essentially bought a computer from Best Buy, then took it home and copied code from another computer to put on the new one. Then they claim, "WooHoo.. we made a computer!!"
They are so far from 'creating' any kind of life that it is just laughable.
May I also point out that all they are doing is showing that it takes intellegent design to get something like this to work. Let us know when they use random set of chemicals and build their synthetic DNA by random sequence generation, and end up with something living. But they get 5-7 billion years to do it.
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JAG
Posts:689
| | 10/08/2007 8:39 PM |
Alert | Sounds like another proven model that Life can Intelligently designed to me.  | | | |
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JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 10/08/2007 9:13 PM |
Alert | Joe, that NOT at all what they did! A computer code is an abstract concept. DNA is a physical substance. This scientist created artificial DNA. The code of the nucleotide bases has nothing to do with the fact that they are made from synthetic materials.
A better analogy would be if a guy went to best buy and bought a computer, took it apart to figure out how it worked and then went into his garage and built a new processor out of things he found out there. Then he put it into the computer and it worked. | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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NEZv69.69
Posts:0
| | 10/09/2007 8:00 AM |
Alert | Posted By JAG on 10/08/2007 8:39 PM Sounds like another proven model that Life can Intelligently designed to me.
LMFAO | | | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/09/2007 10:10 AM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 10/08/2007 9:13 PM
Joe, that NOT at all what they did! A computer code is an abstract concept. DNA is a physical substance. This scientist created artificial DNA. The code of the nucleotide bases has nothing to do with the fact that they are made from synthetic materials.
No, I'm sorry, Joe's analogy is 100% correct. This is similar to sticking Microsoft Word into a decompiler, stripping out all of the code you think is necessary to turn it into Notepad and then hand typing it into another computer and compiling it. Abstract or physical, the fact that computer code and DNA are both instructions for something else is a perfectly valid analogy.
A better analogy would be if a guy went to best buy and bought a computer, took it apart to figure out how it worked and then went into his garage and built a new processor out of things he found out there. Then he put it into the computer and it worked.
A pared down chromosome is not in any way comparable to a computer processor.
This is really a joke, paring down a chromosome and then claiming you've created artificial life. *Yawn* | |
Joined: Jul 2005 | |
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JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 10/09/2007 11:23 AM |
Alert | I disagree completely. I agree with your comment that a chromosome is nothing like a computer processor, but DNA is nothing like computer code either.
They didn't pare down a chromosome Jason. Humans only use 10% of the DNA in their cells. Introns and Exons. The fact that the scientists removed unused genes that weren't being used to code for proteins is not the point. The didn't just plug that same chromosome back into the cell. The created NEW, SYNTHETIC DNA. | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/09/2007 12:04 PM |
Alert | Humans only using 10% of their genes is a myth. All that means is that scientists haven't figured out exactly what the rest is for, but they know they can't cut it out. More information:
Junk DNA
Experiments have suggested that they can randomly throw out portions of DNA, but they are not extensive studies and they are not conclusive.
They didn't pare down a chromosome Jason.
Huh, so the article lied?
The DNA sequence is based on the bacterium Mycoplasma genitalium which the team pared down to the bare essentials needed to support life, removing a fifth of its genetic make-up.
The wholly synthetically reconstructed chromosome, which the team have christened Mycoplasma laboratorium, has been watermarked with inks for easy recognition.
The created NEW, SYNTHETIC DNA.
True, but it was not original.
Try this analogy: You give the me the recipe for a world famous pretzel recipe. I take it and eliminate anything that is not essential to a pretzel, then add in a few things I think will be tasty. Yes, that means that I created a NEW pretzel. Does that mean I created one on my own with no outside assistance? No. | |
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JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 10/09/2007 12:12 PM |
Alert |
Your analogy still isn't correct. Its far too simplified.
You give me the recipe for a pretzel. I take it and eliminate unneeded ingredients. Then I go to my laboratory and create all new ingredients.. I make a new dough from man-made materials.. There's no flour here.. I make the rest of the ingredients the same way.. from synthetic materials. There's nothing natural in this pretzel. I have made a new pretzel. | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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Veritas
Posts:346
| | 10/09/2007 1:15 PM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 10/09/2007 12:12 PM
Your analogy still isn't correct. Its far too simplified.
You give me the recipe for a pretzel. I take it and eliminate unneeded ingredients. Then I go to my laboratory and create all new ingredients.. I make a new dough from man-made materials.. There's no flour here.. I make the rest of the ingredients the same way.. from synthetic materials. There's nothing natural in this pretzel. I have made a new pretzel.
What did you make the synthetic materials from?
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/09/2007 1:20 PM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 10/09/2007 12:12 PM
Your analogy still isn't correct. Its far too simplified.
You give me the recipe for a pretzel. I take it and eliminate unneeded ingredients. Then I go to my laboratory and create all new ingredients.. I make a new dough from man-made materials.. There's no flour here.. I make the rest of the ingredients the same way.. from synthetic materials. There's nothing natural in this pretzel. I have made a new pretzel.
But you still used the original pretzel recipe.  | |
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joe_2007
Posts:83
| | 10/09/2007 5:10 PM |
Alert | Posted By JillyBean on 10/09/2007 11:23 AM
I disagree completely. I agree with your comment that a chromosome is nothing like a computer processor, but DNA is nothing like computer code either.
JillyBean, you don't know much about the workings of the cell, do you?
The DNA is only a string of instructions that the machines within the cell use to build protiens.
A computer code is only a string of instructions that the processors use to perform some function.
Posted By JillyBean on 10/09/2007 11:23 AM
They didn't pare down a chromosome Jason. Humans only use 10% of the DNA in their cells. Introns and Exons. The fact that the scientists removed unused genes that weren't being used to code for proteins is not the point. The didn't just plug that same chromosome back into the cell. The created NEW, SYNTHETIC DNA.
It is not like they made the DNA out of Nylon or something. They built synthetic amino acids using the same atoms, Carbon, Nitrogen,..., and their intellect. They then copied the real DNA sequences using the new amino acids, and their intellect.
They have no idea how to start a sequence from scratch to get a working cell. But they are using their intellect to prove that it takes intellegent processes to even get as far as they did.
I can copy a Van Gough drop-by-drop of paint. That certainly does not mean that I can paint like Van Gough, nor that I have any idea how it was truely made. Same with the DNA. 
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bizybeth
Posts:569
| | 10/09/2007 5:14 PM |
Alert | | Wow, this is good, guys, keep going! Waiting for the next epsiode! | |
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bizybeth
Posts:569
| | 10/09/2007 5:14 PM |
Alert | | Wow, this is good, guys, keep going! Waiting for the next epsiode! | |
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Jason
Posts:3378
| | 10/09/2007 5:56 PM |
Alert | JillyBean, you don't know much about the workings of the cell, do you?
The DNA is only a string of instructions that the machines within the cell use to build protiens.
A computer code is only a string of instructions that the processors use to perform some function.
Precisely. This is also why DNA coding is abstract, like computer code. DNA is nothing more than a collection of atoms, carbon, nitrogen, etc., that is until the cell starts acting on it, like a processor. | |
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JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 10/10/2007 4:50 PM |
Alert | Posted By Jason on 10/09/2007 5:56 PM JillyBean, you don't know much about the workings of the cell, do you?
The DNA is only a string of instructions that the machines within the cell use to build protiens.
A computer code is only a string of instructions that the processors use to perform some function. Precisely. This is also why DNA coding is abstract, like computer code. DNA is nothing more than a collection of atoms, carbon, nitrogen, etc., that is until the cell starts acting on it, like a processor.
As far as not knowing the workings of a cell.. Perhaps you should have a conversation with my degree.. in biology.. and genetics.. Thanks..
The article doesn't say WHAT they built the DNA from. It says "built a synthetic chromosome out of laboratory chemicals" and "Using lab-made chemicals, they have painstakingly stitched together a chromosome"
All of your quibbling doesn't change the fact that these scientists have figured our how to WRITE genetic code. They have the capabilities to create new species. And this is just the beginning. Give them a few years. | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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JillyBean
Posts:375
| | 10/10/2007 4:52 PM |
Alert | Posted By joe_2007 on 10/09/2007 5:10 PM Posted By JillyBean on 10/09/2007 11:23 AM I can copy a Van Gough drop-by-drop of paint. That certainly does not mean that I can paint like Van Gough, nor that I have any idea how it was truely made. Same with the DNA. Are you saying that as long as scientists are using DNA or something like DNA to create new species, you will never accept that science because "god" made DNA? | |
Tens of THOUSANDS of pure-bred dogs are killed in shelters in the Us EVERY YEAR!
Do your part
~Spay or Neuter your pets
~DON'T buy animals from irresponsible breeders..
~There is an adoption group for every breed of dog.. | |
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