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| | Author | Messages | |
ForensicUnit
Posts:214
 | | 05/07/2008 9:11 PM |
 Alert | Hey Senitans, Senitians, Seniteese? Thank you to the 26 people that took the time to come out and join us at the meeting tonight. We discussed the last months minutes, the finances, and the delinquencies. Tom Foley of Foleyge Landscape spoke to us and answered some questions. We covered the 404 wash, and the directives given to us by the Army Corps of Engineers. We discussed committiees, graffiti, block watch, weed control, the sign boards, and the mialbox repairs. We voted to complete the blcok wall on Martie Lynnm without a gate. We announced that H&N submitted a landscape contract bid. We briefly discussed shortening or lessening the fine schedule, to prevent people from going 50+ days without consequences, and about having a rolling fine schedule to prevent people from paying us $50 a month to store their trailers and boats in Senita, rather than at a storage lot. And then we all had the most amazing pie ever! Ok. So we didn't have pie. But it was an awesome meeting, and I'm still super glad I'm on the Board. -Graham | | | |
| | wifimoocher
Posts:58
| | 05/07/2008 10:08 PM |
Alert | I was around for a short time at the meeting and i have some observations about the meeting. (i was the guy dressed in black that came in for an hour then left) I had to get back home to the kids and wife.
I noticed that Tom gave good reasons why he does not have an ROC license and i heard from the board a few times from different members congradulate him on a job well done. Yet we are looking to replace him? He did mention that he was charging us less than what the bid was for. although the way he presented that info didn't sit well with me.
The H&N landscape rep....well lets just say it was funny when he asked his question about the fees for weed cleanup and then the 1st guy at the board table (kriss i think) answered his question then asked if the H&N guy was here. it turned out to be the same guy asking the question. Kinda made me think "DOH!" H&N did great work on the homes from the pic's i have seen on this forum though.
And who is Kriss? Is it the guy that sat 1st seat in at the board members table?
And who is the blonde woman who ended the conversation about 250 being a deterant and not the actual price being charged for weed cleanup.
and to add, we also spoke about unlanscaped areas around the mailboxes (not scheduled for discussion but was brought up by an attendie at the meeting) If i had known that horton drags there feet when pulte was stepping up to the responsability, i would have thought twice about buying a horton house.
Great meeting though. yes, pie would have been great. next time have pie and i'll stay the whole meeting  | |
Money isn't everything.
Everyone just thinks it is... | |
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| | ForensicUnit
Posts:214
| | 05/07/2008 10:26 PM |
Alert | Hey Wifi. I totally recognized you from your picture 
You need to understand that this is the first time ANY of us have heard from Tom Foleyge. He came so we could ask him the questions we did. We are looking into replacing him, and part of looking is hearing from everyone involved, reading a lot of numbers, and researching everyone involved. You need to know that outside the monthly meetings, we send about 25-40 emails a week discussing issues.
As far as H&N goes, I've said before; they aren't eloquent speakers. But that doesn't make them bad landscapers.
Kriss was all the way on the left (facing the Board). He is the property manager. The "blonde woman" is Lori, the executive VP of Ogden. She's kind of like a legal advisor, or coach. She's sitting in on the first few meetings since we are a new community.
And the whole Horton rock issue is weird and kind of lazy to me. But Reagan knows much more about that whole debacle.
-Graham | | | |
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| | C&W
Posts:169
| | 05/07/2008 10:29 PM |
Alert | | Thanks for the minute briefs | | | |
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| | wifimoocher
Posts:58
| | 05/07/2008 10:49 PM |
Alert | Well the questions i heard were just:
* why dont you have an ROC license
* how come you are not found on the net (advertising)
I did not hear any issues brought up about his landscaping work. just his business decisions.
This may have been asked of him privately i dont know. And yes H&N did not present himself professionaly but that company does good work. As far as i heard so does Foleyge.
Are we dumping Foleyge because we cant find them in the phone book for someone that is. Or are we seeking bids because the work we have recieved has been below our standards.
Glad to have Lori and Kriss there to help sort out some things. | |
Money isn't everything.
Everyone just thinks it is... | |
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| | reagdog
Posts:98
| | 05/07/2008 11:46 PM |
Alert | I don't think there is any good reason not to have an ROC license if you are going to maintain landscaping and spray for weeds and repair sprinklers, etc.... Any excuse, would be just that - an excuse. I think Tom Foley does a great job of maintaining this neighborhood and I'm not knocking him for that. Does anybody know who could be liable for Tom Foley and his landscape crew if anything should happen while he is here on our property? The answer is the HOA board. Would any of you want additional liability for hiring a non-licensed contractor? That's where I'm at with it. I also had numerous more questions for him that I didn't get to ask because of the time frame. I will send a list of questions to Kriss next week that will help me make my decision.
If anyone has any rock issues - let me know what they are and I will try and explain or get them taken care of. Thanks to everybody who showed up tonight. | | | |
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|  | h&n
Posts:21
| | 05/08/2008 10:02 AM |
Alert | Interesting meeting to say the least. It seemed as though the board, residents, and others were almost completely shut down by Ogden. The last time I checked, the management company works for the neighborhood and the board, we don’t work for Ogden. If the board wants to talk about something they can, the management company does not have the right to dictate the time allotted to each topic. They are there to advise, not to run the meetings. Last night the whole meeting was rushed when Ogden wanted it to be rushed. It seemed as though any time the board or any resident asked a question that they didn’t want to address that they basically said “we don’t have time for this right now, we have to move on”. Whether I am just simply a resident of Senita or an owner of H&N landscape should not prevent us from being able to express views that may be better for our community. I feel that the Management company completely covered up for the fact that Foley has no contractors license. Foley himself said that he doesn’t need one, but that is partially untrue. If you just do maintenance, this is true, however if you fix things like irrigation or simply dig a hole for a new plant or replace a plant then the company is performing as an illegal contractor. It’s not a “marketing tool” it is a way that the customer can be protected in the event of an emergency or any wrongdoing. Although it would be great to have Senita as a customer, as a resident of Senita I don’t care whether or not the community uses H&N or any other licensed company. I am sure that the board will care when they are held liable for problems that may arise. You can ask any respected property management company whether they would hire an unlicensed landscaper for their communities and a unanimous number of people would respond with absolutely not. They wouldn’t want the board, themselves, or the residents to be held liable for using someone that they know they shouldn’t. I also don’t think that Foley is doing a bad job, but that really isn’t the problem. Just to set the record straight. H&N Landscape has done 60 or so cleanups at $150.00 each or a total of $9000.00. In our contract, we had offered to do 100 front yard cleanups per year for free that is a savings of $15,000 per year. These cleanups are how the community will stay looking nice. By the way, Senita will never see any money from the bank owned houses, the short sales, etc… they just won’t pay. Although Foley’s bid is low, they don’t include anything extra. I would like to see how much money total was paid to Foley over the last year. That will tell you exactly how much per month we truly are paying. Not to mention the fence that we were going to install for free. Four of the board members wanted to go out to bid for this fence, but instead they were turned around and made the decision last night to pay $4500 for the fence. (Wasted Money) I thought that from the prior meetings that the board felt strongly about getting multiple bids. I guess not. These are just some examples of how H&N could save the community money. What particularly rubbed me the wrong way was the fact that Helen Brown and others were shut down from speaking multiple times. If you are not allowed to speak then why should the board expect its residents to even attend. | | | |
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| | Reagan
Posts:737
| | 05/08/2008 10:11 AM |
Alert | Thanks to the board for a great meeting. I think for being two sessions in we are making great progress. The time you all spend away from just the meetings is very apparent, and I thank you for the commitment. I do have a few questions, comments regarding last night’s meeting, as it did seem we were in a rush to get out of the room by 8pm.
1. It does shock me that Foley doesn't have a ROC license/permit. I understand what he means about the advertising, but to say that we have been using him for a number of years and don't need an avenue to complain should something happen is BS. For the liability of our HOA, especially since we now know that he isn't registered- and doesn't seem to have adequate insurance. I believe that would put the HOA in a very bad position should something happen while they are maintaining our property. Should we be using someone that has setup their business in that fashion?
2. I know Foley threw out a lot of numbers regarding what his contract is written for, and that he hasn't been charging us the maximum amount of the contract. Can someone break down 2 numbers for us?
A. For 2007- what was the total contract with Foley that he could bill?
B. What is the total we paid Foley in that time frame? I know he said for maintance he is charging us less than the contract, but is there any other misc. charge we have paid him? What is the full amount he collected in 2007 or the last fiscal year?
3. Kriss mentioned at this last meeting that he doesn't always charge a homeowner the additional $500 fine/penalty when their yards are cleaned up. He bases it on each homeowner’s situation. At the meeting before in April he stated he doesn't always write up parking violations. Is this per the board’s decision or is Kriss making this call on his own? It wouldn't seem fair to only be charging fines or writing violations as Kriss sees fit. I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, that if that type of decision is going to be made, that needs to be decided by the board, not the managers own preference. I believe that is unfair and shouldn't be allowed at all- it’s not his decision to be made. I also believe the rules need to be consistent and fair across the board. I understand there are hardships and some people can't maintain their own yards. However, we all signed that we would abide by the CC&R's, and to bend the rules for a select few shouldn't be allowed. Again, correct me if I am wrong on this, it is just how I feel about it.
4. I understand the rush with the timeframe allowed and trying to keep questions at the end. Maybe we can schedule a little more time, or time each part of the meeting, leaving a designated period of time at the end of the meeting for questions and concerns. At the end when it was open forum time, it seemed to be right at 8 when we needed to get out of the school. I know a lot of questions were asked during the meeting, and it seemed like they were asked and answered when it was positive for Kriss, then asked to be kept to the end when he really didn't like the question or want to answer it.
5. For clarification: Maybe I didn't hear this correctly. I thought the vote to build the wall was tabled until the next meeting until we get 2 more quotes? Did that change? How many bids were obtained?
Thanks again for all of your hard work. It really shows. Looking forward to these answers/comments...... | |
Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence.
Reagan, Los Angeles Times, January 7, 1970 | |
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| | jhall
Posts:1242
| | 05/08/2008 1:30 PM |
Alert | | I also agree with the ROC license issue. I wonder what he has to hide being properly licensed. I'm not making any accusations but does he hire illegals? Does anyone from Ogden receive kickbacks for using him? I just seemed like any comments or questions were shut down by Ogden... I would prefer a licensed contractor. Or maybe our current one get a license. | |
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
--Edmund Burke | |
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| | C&W
Posts:169
| | 05/08/2008 2:16 PM |
Alert | | Wow, it appears there's a lot of unanswered questions. In regards to enforcement of the rules/regulations of the CC&R, in my opinion and I also agree with Reagan, everything has to be fair across the board. If you're going to write someone up for a violation, then you should also write up another person for the same violation (or else we're talking about biases, favoritism, prejudice, etc. you name it). About the ROC, the board needs to know and remember how to "CYA". I will not be paying the extra cost because there's going to be some problem in the future. | | | |
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| | reagdog
Posts:98
| | 05/08/2008 4:08 PM |
Alert | I am going to ask Kriss how much we ended up paying Foleyge Landscaping for the year 2006 and 2007. That will give us the best estimate as to how much he is actually charging and allow us to compare that to other bids. The amount we are estimating for landscaping per month is way higher than what we are actually being charged by Foleyge? That doesn't make sense to me.
I also don't understand why we would tell everyone we are going to charge $750 for not cleaning up your weeds, but we will easily back down to $250? Why not just say $250 and stick with it?
Does everyone want 1 day of trash and 1 day of recycle or would you prefer 2 days of trash and get recycling on your own if you want it? That will be brought up at the next meeting.
We should have scheduled that meeting last night to go until about 9:30pm instead of 8 so all questions could have been asked because I thought Tom Foley got off easy. I will make sure his references get checked.
I am all for "CYA" and getting a licensed landscaper on board. The last thing I or any one of us needs is increased liability for no reason.
I will bring it up to the board to hold off on the wall until we make a decision on landscapers. Obviously H&N said they would build it for free if we hire them and I would rather have a free wall than a $4,500 wall.
I also want to bring up the discussion of section 8 in Senita. Helen tried to bring it up at the end but was denied due to lack of time. I'm not 100% familiar with section 8 but would like to find out more and how to stop it if possible.
Hopefully once the board gets a little more settled in our positions, Rod will lead the meetings and Kriss can take more of a back seat. Rod is the only one of us 5 who have been on a HOA board before, so we are learning every meeting.
I hope everyone keeps up the support and thanks for being involved and asking questions. That's the only way we are going to get better. | | | |
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| | azsouthendzone
Posts:528
| | 05/08/2008 4:36 PM |
Alert | "Kriss mentioned at this last meeting that he doesn't always charge a homeowner the additional $500 fine/penalty when their yards are cleaned up. He bases it on each homeowner’s situation. At the meeting before in April he stated he doesn't always write up parking violations. " Please tell me this is not true. He only writes up violations sometimes? You have to be kidding me. What "situation" would dicatate a free pass, and allow you to let your yard look like hell? And a 50 day notice? Are you serious? You actually debate that? A 50 day notice has to be the most rediculous policy I have ever heard. Try a 10 day notice for God sakes. People around here are so lazy as it is, and you give them, a 50 day notice? Unreal. | | | |
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| | azsouthendzone
Posts:528
| | 05/08/2008 4:39 PM |
Alert | "I understand there are hardships and some people can't maintain their own yards. " Unless you are missing hands and legs, you can maintain a desert landscape. There is no excuse for letting weeds overrun your yard. | | | |
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| | reagdog
Posts:98
| | 05/08/2008 5:29 PM |
Alert | Kriss doesn't always get to charge the additional $500 because he knows he can't legally collect it. He can only legally collect for the expenses that went into cleaning the front yard - which had been $250 - so the additional $500 of the $750 fine would be waived.
From what I know, the only parking violations that have been written up are parking violations for boats, trailers, RV's, people parking in their front yard and parking of cars that are obviously broken down. I don't think Kriss has been writing violations for an every day car parking in the street. This is what is meant by "parking situations."
The board is new azsouthendzone. Can you give us a few meetings together to rectify issues that we want to change - such as the time frame to get weed violators yards cleaned up?
I agree there is no excuse for not maintaining your front yard.
Have you attended a meeting and voiced your concerns? You are more than welcome to join the landscape committee or parking committee and get involved. PM me and I'll get you all set up.
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| | Reagan
Posts:737
| | 05/08/2008 6:07 PM |
Alert | Thanks for all the info reagdog. Can you clarify about the $500 not being legal? Has it ever been collected? Is it in place as more of a scare tactic or has it been collected? I understand the point of the $500, but don't understand on why it needs to be 2 different things. I guess it gets confusing on why its listed as a fine and a fee. Why not say its $750 to clean the yard. Period. (We pay the cost of it to whoever does the cleanup, $150 or whatever, and the rest is a fine). Based on what was discussed last night, the $250 isn't even the cost of the cleanup. So if $250 isn't the actually cost, why break it down to 2 different fees?
As for the parking and how Kriss enforces it... Is this the direction of the board that has told Kriss to enforce in this manor? My overall point that I am trying to get at is that Kriss seems to be making a number of large decisions on our behalf, when it is really the decision of the board on how they want our community enforced, fined and etc. My questions really boils down to that. If the board is directing Kriss, for example, that weeds are the priority and to let parking slide for a few months, that's fine. We elected you to make those decisions and I would stand by the decision if that was what was decided. But for Kriss to say, well, I spend enough time on weeds and don't care about parking for now, that isn't ok with me. If I go to work and said I only wanted to select the tasks I felt like doing that day, I wouldn’t have a job the next day…
I understand we are a new HOA and all of you board members are working very hard at what you do. I look forward to our board running the meeting, as its your meeting to run, not Kriss, Ogden's, or his boss. I know it will take some time, but I think things will run smoother and closer to what our residents expect when our board is running them, not Kriss. | |
Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence.
Reagan, Los Angeles Times, January 7, 1970 | |
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| | reagdog
Posts:98
| | 05/08/2008 9:01 PM |
Alert | From what Kriss has told us, when they take someone to small claims court for the $750, the judge asks how much the HOA actually spent to clean up the front yard. Foleyge was charging $250 per clean up, so the judge would order the violator to only pay for the actual service and not make the violator pay the additional $500 fine.
I don't know if the full $750 has ever been collected. I'm sure some people didn't complain and paid it, but there were probably few. I think most people probably called Ogden to get the fine waived and Ogden probably waived the $500 and made them pay the $250 instead of going to court and getting the same amount anyway.
The board really hasn't discussed much about parking, so anything Kriss has done he has done on his own. I think parking is a hard job for Kriss because he drives by during regular working hours when most of the cars are gone. Most of the cars park on the street in the evening and sit there until morning when they go to work again. This is why we are going to have a parking committee to check for violators at all hours of the day. I will check with Kriss to see if those people who signed up are actually sending in violations. FYI - anyone can send in violations, so if you see people consistently parking on the street and they have spots in their driveway open, take a picture and get the address and send it to krissl@ogdenre.com
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| | wifimoocher
Posts:58
| | 05/09/2008 5:42 PM |
Alert | I understand why we were rushed through the meeting. Only having an hour and a half to discuss all the issues is kinda short. Next time hopefully we reserve the room for a bit longer as we have lots of questions for our board.
Parking - i really like the idea of having a parking commitee that can take pics and send them to kriss. having kriss make the call on weather to make up a violation or not is kinda new to me. Our HOA booklet never said we will forgive on nights, weekends and holidays. I personaly have not read the HOA cover to cover but i'm pretty sure the booklet never said anything about "at discression of person writing violation". We should have a rule we can use across the board for everyone.
The last HOA I was in had the same rules regarding parking. They would drive by every tuesday and look for violaters in regards to Weeds, and parking. they even sent out a rent-a-cop out to write everyone on the street on the sunday evening a violation saying you are not allowed to park in the street, you license plate number has been logged for our records. granted in the 2 years i lived there. we never got a fine for it. just letters stating not to do it.
So H&N will only do the wall for free IF we pick them or would they just do it for free?
section 8? oh please no.. can i vote "no" now?
and i would like the 14 day notice for weeds or we charge them 250 (not that we are voting on it but that is where i stand if we were to vote)
~ Wifimoocher
ps. speaking of wich is parking in your unlanscaped yard a violation? if so there is a house on my block that does it every day. | |
Money isn't everything.
Everyone just thinks it is... | |
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| | reagdog
Posts:98
| | 05/09/2008 6:59 PM |
Alert | Parking in your front yard is absolutely a violation. Take a picture and send it in with the address of the home.
H&N would have no interest in building our wall for free if they weren't our landscaper. At least if they were doing Senita's landscaping and getting paid for it, they could justify eating the cost of the fence.
Next week I will get an update on our parking committee and see if they are out and about writing violations. | | | |
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| | jhall
Posts:1242
| | 05/10/2008 5:34 PM |
Alert | | Please no section 8 | |
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
--Edmund Burke | |
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| | Reagan
Posts:737
| | 05/11/2008 7:07 AM |
Alert | If there is a way to hold off on the wall until we made a landscaping decision, I think that would be great. I do believe we need the wall, but waiting a month or two isn't a huge deal- the commercial going right won't be started right away.
I ceretainly hope we can make a landscaping decision, and soon. It seemed like Kriss and his boss said it was a mute point because we have a contract with Foley. Well, I don't see with the liability we have using the landscaper how we can be held to the contract.
If Kriss and Odgen continue to stand on the side of the landscaper and not what is truly right for Senita, maybe Foley shouldn't be the only one getting a "CYA?"
As for 2 trash days or 1 trash, 1 recycling day, I would prefer to keep it 1 trash and 1 recycle day, although I am not too picky either way. Is there a cost difference between the two? | |
Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence.
Reagan, Los Angeles Times, January 7, 1970 | |
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